October 26, 2014, 03:14:32 AM

Author Topic: Magic Lantern increases Canon EOS 5D Mark III dynamic range  (Read 13233 times)

infared

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Re: Magic Lantern increases Canon 5D III dynamic range
« Reply #30 on: January 22, 2014, 11:23:16 PM »
Thanks all for your responses to my inquiry!!!
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Re: Magic Lantern increases Canon 5D III dynamic range
« Reply #30 on: January 22, 2014, 11:23:16 PM »

nsurg

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Re: Magic Lantern increases Canon 5D III dynamic range
« Reply #31 on: January 23, 2014, 12:42:06 AM »
I've been poking around on the magic lantern website over the past month, but can't seem to find the answers to some very basic questions:
1) When using this in the intended fashion, do I still get to see the regular canon menu options (i.e. the focus modes, etc)
2) Does installation of this reset my canon settings to stock (custom button reassignments and such)?
3) Does pretty much everybody have the slower boot described in earlier posts here?
4) Do we know for a fact that canon refuses to honor warranty after installation of this?
Thanks for help, mostly I'm curious about question 1 and 2!

Steven_urwin

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Re: Magic Lantern increases Canon 5D III dynamic range
« Reply #32 on: January 23, 2014, 12:58:07 AM »
I've been poking around on the magic lantern website over the past month, but can't seem to find the answers to some very basic questions:
1) When using this in the intended fashion, do I still get to see the regular canon menu options (i.e. the focus modes, etc)
2) Does installation of this reset my canon settings to stock (custom button reassignments and such)?
3) Does pretty much everybody have the slower boot described in earlier posts here?
4) Do we know for a fact that canon refuses to honor warranty after installation of this?
Thanks for help, mostly I'm curious about question 1 and 2!

Replying to number 4, I read an article on this recently (found here:http://petapixel.com/2013/05/27/will-custom-firmware-void-my-warranty-canon-nikon-and-panasonic-respond/)

Basically from my understanding, Canon will honour the warranty, unless the point of failure is the new OS itself.

"So damage caused by Magic Lantern wouldn’t be covered, but any covered damage, whether or not you’ve ever installed ML before, will still be taken care of pro bono during the warranty period. Nikon and Panasonic owners, however, aren’t as lucky."

As for the other points, I haven't installed ML on my 5D3, but when I installed it on my 7D I didn't notice it change any of my custom settings back to stock.

Hope this helps
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crazyrunner33

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Re: Magic Lantern increases Canon 5D III dynamic range
« Reply #33 on: January 23, 2014, 02:28:41 AM »
I've been poking around on the magic lantern website over the past month, but can't seem to find the answers to some very basic questions:
1) When using this in the intended fashion, do I still get to see the regular canon menu options (i.e. the focus modes, etc)
2) Does installation of this reset my canon settings to stock (custom button reassignments and such)?
3) Does pretty much everybody have the slower boot described in earlier posts here?
4) Do we know for a fact that canon refuses to honor warranty after installation of this?
Thanks for help, mostly I'm curious about question 1 and 2!

1) The Canon menus and functions still work and are visibile.

2) This does not reset the camera settings.

3) I use ML on three cameras, the boot might be a second or two slower. I'm guessing because I don't notice the delay.

I've been using Magic Lantern for three years and on 3 different cameras. It has been very stable and I could never imagine using a Canon camera without it. The day I can no longer use Magic Lantern will be the day I switch to Blackmagic.

K-amps

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Re: Magic Lantern increases Canon 5D III dynamic range
« Reply #34 on: January 23, 2014, 02:42:52 AM »
Will the 5D3 nightly build work with firmwares newer than 113?
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Marsu42

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Re: Magic Lantern increases Canon 5D III dynamic range
« Reply #35 on: January 23, 2014, 04:35:28 AM »
“Tests have been done by ‘Marsu42’ of CanonRumors, which show numbers of up to 15 stops of DR when using this feature combined with the ‘dual_iso’ module that Magic Lantern already includes in their nightly builds.”

Oh my, this certainly made a larger splash than expected, my intention just to report ongoing development :-p and generate more interest in the ml project. Fyi: P5D has got it wrong, I've not "done" these tests but am just crossposting them from the ML forum. The latest figures are:

Code: [Select]
5D3 Canon ML
100 10.98 11.36
200 10.90 11.32
400 10.79 11.23
800 10.59 11.01
1600 10.16 10.59
3200 9.53 10.015
6400 8.60 9.16
12800 7.82 8.40

This will most likely work on many more cameras, currently it's 5d3/6d/60d, more are added. The gain on 5d3 & 6d is about the same, ~0.4stops, so the 6d keeps its default dr advantage over 5d3 of ~2/3 stops ... see original thread here: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=19124.msg357916#msg357916

Most important, here's the relevant ML thread: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=10111.0

Lichtgestalt

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Re: Magic Lantern increases Canon 5D III dynamic range
« Reply #36 on: January 23, 2014, 06:59:47 AM »
The only thing I think needs to be addressed is the 15 stops bit. Because of the 14-bit ADC, it would be limited to 14 stops

for a single exposure.

it´s still not clear to me how it´s done.  thanks for posting the link to the ML forum, marsu42. will have a look.

but when they use a multiexposure approach it can be more than the 14 bit... right?
« Last Edit: January 23, 2014, 07:04:18 AM by Lichtgestalt »

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Re: Magic Lantern increases Canon 5D III dynamic range
« Reply #36 on: January 23, 2014, 06:59:47 AM »

Marsu42

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Re: Magic Lantern increases Canon 5D III dynamic range
« Reply #37 on: January 23, 2014, 07:11:55 AM »
but when they use a multiexposure approach it can be more than the 14 bit... right?

The dual_iso dngs are 16bit raw, and alex even added floating point dng - unfortunately this atm only seems to be supported in the Adobe DNG Toolkit and not in Lightroom :-p or the ML devs have some dng headers wrong, it's wip.

tron

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Re: Magic Lantern increases Canon 5D III dynamic range
« Reply #38 on: January 23, 2014, 07:29:32 AM »
Will the 5D3 nightly build work with firmwares newer than 113?
No, the mentioned firmware in the drop down list in the nightly builds is the only one supported.

cayenne

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Re: Magic Lantern increases Canon 5D III dynamic range
« Reply #39 on: January 23, 2014, 10:28:43 AM »
OK...I have a 5DMarkIII running Firmware Version 1.2.1.  I have never used Magic Lantern.  I did spend about $3400 on my camera body (yes, I was an early adopter, but was able to sell my 5DMarkII for $2000 so I guess it evened out), and I do not want do ruin it as it is an expensive piece of hardware in my life. 
1. Is ML easy to install and use?
2. Can I switch back and forth between ML and My Canon OS?
3. Can anyone direct me to a site where someone has solid experience and simple information (for dummies) on how to set your 5DMarkIII up and use the software to its fullest.
4. Have users destroyed their camera when installing of using this software.

Seems like there are a lot of benefits....but if I do something to the camera and it is not repairable ....I might have to kill myself.  :o

Be cautioned if you have a 5D3.

ML is still very alpha for the Canon 5D3.

1. If you install Magic Lantern on your 5D3, you will set a firmware bootflag on the camera, that is NOT removable. At this time, it is a permanent change to your camera
2. It seems associated with this flag, that the boot times and wake up times can be significantly increased on your camera, I'm hearing up to like 2-3 seconds I believe. This is a deal breaker for some folks. This does NOT seem to be something that you can reverse.

The problems I mentioned above, will remain on your 5D Mark III even if you remove the Magic Lantern software. So, please be advised.

That being said, I've been following ML forums and all things about them and I'm HUGELY impressed. I really, really hope they can overcome these 2x issues with the 5D3 so I can feel comfortable with using ML on my camera. I'm anxious to start shooting RAW video with my 5D3...and to explore all these other cool options with stills photography.

But at this time, since I have only one 5D3, I am holding off putting ML on my camera.

Caveat Emptor as they say.

HTH,

cayenne

These are good points.

I've been waiting for a beta version, and the ability to reset the boot flag. It's a long wait, and I'm hoping these guys get there while the 5DIII is still a hot camera

I feel the same way, I"m dying to try out ML, but at this point, since I only have one 5D3, I'm not willing to risk permanent, irreversible changes to my camera.

tron

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Re: Magic Lantern increases Canon 5D III dynamic range
« Reply #40 on: January 23, 2014, 10:56:03 AM »
OK...I have a 5DMarkIII running Firmware Version 1.2.1.  I have never used Magic Lantern.  I did spend about $3400 on my camera body (yes, I was an early adopter, but was able to sell my 5DMarkII for $2000 so I guess it evened out), and I do not want do ruin it as it is an expensive piece of hardware in my life. 
1. Is ML easy to install and use?
2. Can I switch back and forth between ML and My Canon OS?
3. Can anyone direct me to a site where someone has solid experience and simple information (for dummies) on how to set your 5DMarkIII up and use the software to its fullest.
4. Have users destroyed their camera when installing of using this software.

Seems like there are a lot of benefits....but if I do something to the camera and it is not repairable ....I might have to kill myself.  :o

Be cautioned if you have a 5D3.

ML is still very alpha for the Canon 5D3.

1. If you install Magic Lantern on your 5D3, you will set a firmware bootflag on the camera, that is NOT removable. At this time, it is a permanent change to your camera
2. It seems associated with this flag, that the boot times and wake up times can be significantly increased on your camera, I'm hearing up to like 2-3 seconds I believe. This is a deal breaker for some folks. This does NOT seem to be something that you can reverse.

The problems I mentioned above, will remain on your 5D Mark III even if you remove the Magic Lantern software. So, please be advised.

That being said, I've been following ML forums and all things about them and I'm HUGELY impressed. I really, really hope they can overcome these 2x issues with the 5D3 so I can feel comfortable with using ML on my camera. I'm anxious to start shooting RAW video with my 5D3...and to explore all these other cool options with stills photography.

But at this time, since I have only one 5D3, I am holding off putting ML on my camera.

Caveat Emptor as they say.

HTH,

cayenne

These are good points.

I've been waiting for a beta version, and the ability to reset the boot flag. It's a long wait, and I'm hoping these guys get there while the 5DIII is still a hot camera

I feel the same way, I"m dying to try out ML, but at this point, since I only have one 5D3, I'm not willing to risk permanent, irreversible changes to my camera.
Same here. It seems that they do anything- which is admirable of course - but two basic things:

1. Clear the boot flag.
2. Support the new firmware.

So no matter what anything else they do ML at 5D3 is not an option for me.

Marsu42

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Re: Magic Lantern increases Canon 5D III dynamic range
« Reply #41 on: January 23, 2014, 11:03:42 AM »
So no matter what anything else they do ML at 5D3 is not an option for me.

That's quite ok, the ML project is a bit on the experimental side and not a free delivery service, but driven by what the devs want/need for themselves - and I quite like it that way, it either makes people help and contribute or they'll just stay clear.

The reason for the lacking support for newer fw versions is that all Canon fw function addresses change, and it needs quite a lot of time to track down the new ones since of course Canon releases no SDK - and I'm also ok with that, at least with minor fw versions there's usually too little improvement to justify the time spent on this vs. real ML feature improvements.

tron

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Re: Magic Lantern increases Canon 5D III dynamic range
« Reply #42 on: January 23, 2014, 11:21:17 AM »
So no matter what anything else they do ML at 5D3 is not an option for me.

That's quite ok, the ML project is a bit on the experimental side and not a free delivery service, but driven by what the devs want/need for themselves - and I quite like it that way, it either makes people help and contribute or they'll just stay clear.

The reason for the lacking support for newer fw versions is that all Canon fw function addresses change, and it needs quite a lot of time to track down the new ones since of course Canon releases no SDK - and I'm also ok with that, at least with minor fw versions there's usually too little improvement to justify the time spent on this vs. real ML feature improvements.
I like ML. In fact I use it on my 5D2. But from this point to using it on my one and only 5D3 there is a huge difference. ML developers would get much more contribution if they could remove the boot flag. For example by using ML on my 5D2 I have made some contributions myself (mostly regarding DUAL_ISO).

P.S You may like it that way but your FF camera is a 6D not a 5D3  ;) (and I guess you can uninstall it if necessary!)

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Re: Magic Lantern increases Canon 5D III dynamic range
« Reply #42 on: January 23, 2014, 11:21:17 AM »

Marsu42

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Re: Magic Lantern increases Canon 5D III dynamic range
« Reply #43 on: January 23, 2014, 03:10:22 PM »
I like ML. In fact I use it on my 5D2. But from this point to using it on my one and only 5D3 there is a huge difference. ML developers would get much more contribution if they could remove the boot flag. For example by using ML on my 5D2 I have made some contributions myself (mostly regarding DUAL_ISO).

True in your case, and I had ack'ed you as a very active and observant photog anyway. I should havbe made it more clear I wasn't referring to you in person, but personally that I suspect that a good part of the "5d3 bootflag" crowd is the same as in "we won't use it anyway because we've heard it is a hack". I try to promote ML because it's a terrific achievement, but if people want Canon stock fw stability with 1dx features at Rebel price, ML cannot deliver.

P.S You may like it that way but your FF camera is a 6D not a 5D3  ;) (and I guess you can uninstall it if necessary!)

Certainly not though I do like the reduced weight - but I'd only uninstall ML at gunpoint :->

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Re: Magic Lantern increases Canon 5D III dynamic range
« Reply #44 on: January 23, 2014, 07:17:51 PM »
Personally, I hate it when the specs of a camera are improved. I think we should go back to 320x200 resolution in 256 colours...

Personally, I felt that the real breakthrough was when we got 15 bit color (usually in 640x480 but video cards of the day could also do 800x600, as could my craptastic slamsung 14" CRT; in fact it could do 1024x768 but only at 60hz interlaced and the video card was only 8 bit at that rez so there wasn't really much point; it was painfully crappy to look at).  That was the first time an image on a computer monitor looked "real" (although I must say that for images that could have their own private 8-bit palette map they looked mighty fine for the day).  A cheap-ass 15-bit RAMDAC and a WHOLE MEGABYTE of video RAM was your ticket to "true color".

Amazing that I still remember this crap.  Dear God M$ still has a KB on this. Now get off my lawn <grin>.

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Re: Magic Lantern increases Canon 5D III dynamic range
« Reply #44 on: January 23, 2014, 07:17:51 PM »