October 22, 2014, 05:09:34 AM

Author Topic: Canon's Fiscal Year 2013 Financial Results Released  (Read 4105 times)

Don Haines

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 3352
  • Posting cat pictures on the internet since 1986
    • View Profile
Re: Canon's Fiscal Year 2013 Financial Results released
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2014, 06:22:40 PM »
Unlike all the subjective opinions spewed across the internet and elsewhere, yours and mine included, it is an objective fact that more people have decided that Canon dSLRs and lenses are the best, for them…and have done so consistently for >10 years.

The only fact is the sales number, the reason (best for them) is speculation on your part unless you mean that whatever people buys is always the best for them at that moment, but in that case I smell a petitio principii.

You don’t have to universally define “best” to understand that “best selling” is not equal to “best product” in the same way that “best dynamic range” is not equal to “best product”.

We buy what we buy for a whole bunch of reasons. Wants, needs, budget, knowledge (or the lack of it), ego, status, indoctrination, propaganda, reviews, expectations, dreams, beliefs, even facts sometimes.

Excluding the small number of people extorted or otherwise coerced to purchase a 'luxury' product not of their choosing, I'd say it's a pretty reasonably assumption that people but what they believe is best for them at that moment.  All of the factors you list, and the myriad of unmentioned factors, are consistent with that assumption.

You're right that the only real facts are that Canon has led the dSLR market for the past 10 years, and has sold more dSLRs and lenses than their competitors during that period.   Latin logic aside, I'm sure there are reasons for their success.
There is the best, and then there is the best you can afford or carry. None of us shoot with the best......
The best camera is the one in your hands

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon's Fiscal Year 2013 Financial Results released
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2014, 06:22:40 PM »

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • ********
  • Posts: 14713
    • View Profile
Re: Canon's Fiscal Year 2013 Financial Results released
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2014, 06:26:54 PM »
There is the best, and then there is the best you can afford or carry. None of us shoot with the best......

Again, what is 'best'?  Which takes better pictures - the camera/lens that you can afford and therefore purchase, or the one you can't afford and therefore don't have the opportunity to use?  Which one is 'best' for you? 
EOS 1D X, EOS M, and lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

Don Haines

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 3352
  • Posting cat pictures on the internet since 1986
    • View Profile
Re: Canon's Fiscal Year 2013 Financial Results released
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2014, 06:34:32 PM »
There is the best, and then there is the best you can afford or carry. None of us shoot with the best......

Again, what is 'best'?  Which takes better pictures - the camera/lens that you can afford and therefore purchase, or the one you can't afford and therefore don't have the opportunity to use?  Which one is 'best' for you?

The best is something like the camera on the Hubble telescope :)

None of us shoot with the best, we shoot with what best suits our individual needs.
The best camera is the one in your hands

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • ********
  • Posts: 14713
    • View Profile
Re: Canon's Fiscal Year 2013 Financial Results released
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2014, 06:51:34 PM »
None of us shoot with the best, we shoot with what best suits our individual needs.

Exactly...and based on sales figures, Canon 'best suits' the 'individual needs' of more photographers. 
EOS 1D X, EOS M, and lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

privatebydesign

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 2564
  • Ermintrude says "moo"
    • View Profile
Re: Canon's Fiscal Year 2013 Financial Results released
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2014, 06:58:01 PM »
There is the best, and then there is the best you can afford or carry. None of us shoot with the best......

Again, what is 'best'?  Which takes better pictures - the camera/lens that you can afford and therefore purchase, or the one you can't afford and therefore don't have the opportunity to use?  Which one is 'best' for you?

The best is something like the camera on the Hubble telescope :)

None of us shoot with the best, we shoot with what best suits our individual needs.

Well the Hubble suffered from a very embarrassing quality control issue on first use that necessitated a trip into space to change a load of it. Also the "body" has been upgraded several times along the way. So even "the best" can suffer quality control and IQ issues.
The best time to plant a tree is twenty-five years ago. The second best time is today.

LarryC

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 39
    • View Profile
Re: Canon's Fiscal Year 2013 Financial Results released
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2014, 08:05:55 PM »
Unlike all the subjective opinions spewed across the internet and elsewhere, yours and mine included, it is an objective fact that more people have decided that Canon dSLRs and lenses are the best, for them…and have done so consistently for >10 years.

The only fact is the sales number, the reason (best for them) is speculation on your part unless you mean that whatever people buys is always the best for them at that moment, but in that case I smell a petitio principii.

You don’t have to universally define “best” to understand that “best selling” is not equal to “best product” in the same way that “best dynamic range” is not equal to “best product”.

We buy what we buy for a whole bunch of reasons. Wants, needs, budget, knowledge (or the lack of it), ego, status, indoctrination, propaganda, reviews, expectations, dreams, beliefs, even facts sometimes.

Excluding the small number of people extorted or otherwise coerced to purchase a 'luxury' product not of their choosing, I'd say it's a pretty reasonably assumption that people but what they believe is best for them at that moment.  All of the factors you list, and the myriad of unmentioned factors, are consistent with that assumption.

You're right that the only real facts are that Canon has led the dSLR market for the past 10 years, and has sold more dSLRs and lenses than their competitors during that period.   Latin logic aside, I'm sure there are reasons for their success.

But the reality is that product sales is influenced heavily by marketing, including sponsorships, product placements and market presence (i.e. white lenses at sporting events), not by objective comparisons. Most people buy most products based on perceived and "marketed" value, and are rarely well informed about the products they purchase.   I would also argue that while some might believe that this isn't true for high end pro camera buyers, that in fact it is those same product placements, white lenses at games and sponsored "big name" photographers that do in fact significantly influence camera purchases.  It is very hard to not be influenced by branding and marketing.

In fact, I can't think of many (any?) companies that sell the most of anything that is also considered by "objective informed consumers" to make the "best" of that product.  Maybe Canon is an exception?  I have no doubt many Canon owners would like to think so.

Canon makes wonderful products that no doubt are the "best" for many well informed users.  But one of the problems with being the biggest company is the need to make products that will appeal to the broadest base of users in order to maintain that sales volume, and that often translates to an apparent reluctance to introduce significantly innovative new products, perhaps partly because the bigger they are they less they feel compelled to do so. 

100

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 124
    • View Profile
Re: Canon's Fiscal Year 2013 Financial Results released
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2014, 08:07:06 PM »
Unlike all the subjective opinions spewed across the internet and elsewhere, yours and mine included, it is an objective fact that more people have decided that Canon dSLRs and lenses are the best, for them…and have done so consistently for >10 years.

The only fact is the sales number, the reason (best for them) is speculation on your part unless you mean that whatever people buys is always the best for them at that moment, but in that case I smell a petitio principii.

You don’t have to universally define “best” to understand that “best selling” is not equal to “best product” in the same way that “best dynamic range” is not equal to “best product”.

We buy what we buy for a whole bunch of reasons. Wants, needs, budget, knowledge (or the lack of it), ego, status, indoctrination, propaganda, reviews, expectations, dreams, beliefs, even facts sometimes.

Excluding the small number of people extorted or otherwise coerced to purchase a 'luxury' product not of their choosing, I'd say it's a pretty reasonably assumption that people but what they believe is best for them at that moment.  All of the factors you list, and the myriad of unmentioned factors, are consistent with that assumption.

You're right that the only real facts are that Canon has led the dSLR market for the past 10 years, and has sold more dSLRs and lenses than their competitors during that period.   Latin logic aside, I'm sure there are reasons for their success.

I don’t dispute your “pretty reasonably assumption”, I just pointed out it’s not the “objective fact” you tried to sell it for in your previous reaction.

It’s also a reasonable assumption that there are reason for Canons success.

Canon doesn’t specify sales numbers per product as far as I know, but I guess Rebels and kit lenses outsell FF camera’s and L-glass by a substantial margin and it’s safe to assume most buyers in that segment of the market don’t let things like dynamic range of the sensor or corner resolution of their lens influence their buying decision.

Pricing, performance, design, innovation, marketing, advertising, reliability, competition, brand loyalty, word of mouth, after sales… They all contribute to the result.

Just to give an example: I bought a 5D3 in April 2012. Soon after that the light leak problem appeared and I received an e-mail from Canon (I’m a cps member); they admitted their mistake, and asked me to send it to them so they could fix it.
Nikon had the left focus problem with the D800 and after that the oil spatter problem with the D600. They refused to admit there was a problem which resulted in a lot of bad press. Their D600 sales suffered to the point they had to bring out a D610. 
It’s just one of many things other than camera specs that determine the rate of success 

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon's Fiscal Year 2013 Financial Results released
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2014, 08:07:06 PM »

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • ********
  • Posts: 14713
    • View Profile
Re: Canon's Fiscal Year 2013 Financial Results Released
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2014, 08:44:54 PM »
The bottom line is that there is no universal "best" dSLR, just as there's no "best" car (the 'best' racing coupe would be lousy at hauling a load of cow manure!).  Everyone's needs are different.

Absent objective criteria to judge 'best', if we want to compare brands objectively, we're left with "most."  It's not perfect, but then few things are.
EOS 1D X, EOS M, and lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

docsmith

  • Canon 70D
  • ****
  • Posts: 297
    • View Profile
Re: Canon's Fiscal Year 2013 Financial Results Released
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2014, 09:17:07 PM »
I have to say...what an odd reaction to what really is good news.  Canon is a profitable, viable company.  I know the source of the negativity, that they won't be forced to innovate until their bottom line is hurt, but I also like to think that it is good to know that even in a down economy for cameras, Canon is doing well and will be around for awhile longer to service my gear and sell me more.  I doubt we can say the same for all the camera manufacturers out there.

Woody

  • Canon 7D MK II
  • *****
  • Posts: 622
    • View Profile
Re: Canon's Fiscal Year 2013 Financial Results Released
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2014, 10:51:15 PM »
I have to say...what an odd reaction to what really is good news.  Canon is a profitable, viable company.  I know the source of the negativity, that they won't be forced to innovate until their bottom line is hurt, but I also like to think that it is good to know that even in a down economy for cameras, Canon is doing well and will be around for awhile longer to service my gear and sell me more.  I doubt we can say the same for all the camera manufacturers out there.

+1

Arctic Photo

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 168
    • View Profile
Re: Canon's Fiscal Year 2013 Financial Results released
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2014, 03:06:07 AM »
There is the best, and then there is the best you can afford or carry. None of us shoot with the best......

Again, what is 'best'?  Which takes better pictures - the camera/lens that you can afford and therefore purchase, or the one you can't afford and therefore don't have the opportunity to use?  Which one is 'best' for you?

The best is something like the camera on the Hubble telescope :)

None of us shoot with the best, we shoot with what best suits our individual needs.

Well the Hubble suffered from a very embarrassing quality control issue on first use that necessitated a trip into space to change a load of it. Also the "body" has been upgraded several times along the way. So even "the best" can suffer quality control and IQ issues.
And it's not very portable. I wouldn't bring it to a portrait shoot. What about AF?

Northstar

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1484
    • View Profile
Re: Canon's Fiscal Year 2013 Financial Results Released
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2014, 04:39:04 AM »
I have to say...what an odd reaction to what really is good news.  Canon is a profitable, viable company.  I know the source of the negativity, that they won't be forced to innovate until their bottom line is hurt, but I also like to think that it is good to know that even in a down economy for cameras, Canon is doing well and will be around for awhile longer to service my gear and sell me more.  I doubt we can say the same for all the camera manufacturers out there.

A very good point.
Sport Shooter

1dX and 5d3... 24-70 2.8ii, 70-200 2.8ii, 1.4xiii and 2xiii, 85, 40mm, 300 2.8L IS....430ex

Northstar

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1484
    • View Profile
Re: Canon's Fiscal Year 2013 Financial Results released
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2014, 04:41:44 AM »
Quote
Within the Imaging System Business Unit, interchangeable-lens digital cameras maintained their top market share...

So despite the trolls, DRones, and naysayers, Canon is still doing something right (namely, selling more dSLRs and lenses than their competitors).

I would guess by the way they worded this, that they lost market share, but still maintained the lead.  If they had increased their leading market share position, they almost assuredly would have stated that here.

Just making a point about the clever way that statements can be worded to give a positive (or negative) spin.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2014, 04:54:31 AM by Northstar »
Sport Shooter

1dX and 5d3... 24-70 2.8ii, 70-200 2.8ii, 1.4xiii and 2xiii, 85, 40mm, 300 2.8L IS....430ex

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon's Fiscal Year 2013 Financial Results released
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2014, 04:41:44 AM »

Steb

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 43
    • View Profile
Re: Canon's Fiscal Year 2013 Financial Results Released
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2014, 08:27:03 AM »
..., the EOS 5D Mark III and 70D advanced-amateur-model digital SLR cameras ...

Did they just call the 5D3 an advanced-amateur-model?  :o

Don Haines

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 3352
  • Posting cat pictures on the internet since 1986
    • View Profile
Re: Canon's Fiscal Year 2013 Financial Results released
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2014, 09:24:28 AM »
There is the best, and then there is the best you can afford or carry. None of us shoot with the best......

Again, what is 'best'?  Which takes better pictures - the camera/lens that you can afford and therefore purchase, or the one you can't afford and therefore don't have the opportunity to use?  Which one is 'best' for you?

The best is something like the camera on the Hubble telescope :)

None of us shoot with the best, we shoot with what best suits our individual needs.

Well the Hubble suffered from a very embarrassing quality control issue on first use that necessitated a trip into space to change a load of it. Also the "body" has been upgraded several times along the way. So even "the best" can suffer quality control and IQ issues.
And it's not very portable. I wouldn't bring it to a portrait shoot. What about AF?
Somehow I think focus is set to infinity......

As I said above, none of us shoot with the best, we shoot with what best suits our individual needs.
The best camera is the one in your hands

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon's Fiscal Year 2013 Financial Results released
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2014, 09:24:28 AM »