December 20, 2014, 06:21:16 PM

Author Topic: Neutral Density Filters - HELP !  (Read 2607 times)

Valvebounce

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Re: Neutral Density Filters - HELP !
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2014, 07:04:03 PM »
Hi brad-man.
If it were my new kit it wouldn't be about spoiled pictures so much as expensive gear not up to standard. It is not unusual for the anodising support wires to leave marks, but for gear at this price point, a second dip with a repositioned support would have alleviated the problem and proved the quality of the product!
If your going to play the big bucks game, you have to do big bucks quality, not just on bits of it but all of it!

Cheers Graham.

I just bought a Lee filter system and I am really shocked about the build quality of that system. The adapter ring has a faulty finish with markings on it, which then were fixed with a pen as a cover up. After returning that adapter ring I got another one just like it. I conacted the manufacturer which explained to me that these markings are caused in the manufacturing process, quote: "The marks inside the ring are voids left during the anodising process. The rings are suspended in the solution by small wire 'hangers' and these leave voids where they touch the metal."
This I never have seen from any other manufacturer.
See picture for this.
Above all my 0.9 ND pro glass came with tiny specles of yellow finish on the glass right under the yellow label. This goes well 30mm into the middle of the glass. On a glass worth of 200 Euros. Also not what I would call high end. This is just bad quality so far. I haven't given up on it completely but one more of this stuff not gone through the quality control or badly produced and I will send the whole shabbang back.

As you have supplied wonderful photos of Lees shoddy workmanship in the manufacturing of your filter system, could you please supply a photo that was ruined by this inferior system?

No? I didn't think so.

@ OP: Agree with others who recommend Lee Filter System. Though they are pricey at the start, if you're in this picture thing for the long haul, they are actually the best investment for quality and versatility.
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Re: Neutral Density Filters - HELP !
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2014, 07:04:03 PM »

M_S

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Re: Neutral Density Filters - HELP !
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2014, 01:42:29 AM »
As you have supplied wonderful photos of Lees shoddy workmanship in the manufacturing of your filter system, could you please supply a photo that was ruined by this inferior system?

No? I didn't think so.

Some expect a bit more of the gear they with their hard earned money buy, I guess. Like something they come to expect from other manufacturers: deliver flawlessly when it comes to such things as basic chemical treatments to an adapter ring. Never had that from any other manufacturer.
Let's say it this way: If you buy a car and it already has markings on the finish and the window is a bit broken or you can't get some color finish off of it, then you take it home anyways without questioning that for a second? Really odd attitute I must say. What "show me your pics" has got to do with that, is beyond me...

I did send the ND glass back for a replacement. Fingers crossed...
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 01:51:18 AM by M_S »

sagittariansrock

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Re: Neutral Density Filters - HELP !
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2014, 02:44:00 AM »
Hi there
Looking at buying my first batch of ND filters. Thought that a Hoya 3 stop and 6 stop would be a good start. My question is - can I stack these to achieve 9 stops using either a 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM or  EF 16-35mm f/2.8L II USM.

I understand that the 16-35mm might vignette badly with stacked filters. Does anyone have experience with this ?
Also that many lenses you can't actually go up to 9 stops as wide angle lenses sometimes will give you an x in your image at much lower than 9 stops.

Help and feedback please. Maybe the slim B+W might be an option, but any better with vignetting ?  Can u stack a hoya + a slim B+W on top (as I understand the slim B+W doesnt have the thread on top)

Hello PikkieChick

You do not get an X with regular ND filters (as you suggest stacking), whatever the focal length. Those "Maltese crosses" are exclusive to Variable ND filters as some of the member have mentioned.

I use the vaunted Lee system, but sometimes all you need is a quick reduction in light so you can shoot wide open. In that case. there is no real problem to stacking two ND filters, provided the following:

1. Buy good quality filters with minimal color cast- B+W or Heliopan, ideally. Top quality Hoya should be fine, too.
2. Make sure the filters work with your widest lens (in this case you're buying for 82mm filter threads, so that's fine).
3. Try to see if you can find slim mounts.
4. Make sure you have filter wrenches, cost only a few bucks.
5. Don't overtighten.
6. Expect some mechanical vignetting (no light due to the rim of the filters obscuring) up to 17-18mm, and probably some optical vignetting (reduced light due to reduced transmission in filter periphery) up to 20mm (probably correctable in post).

Now, if you find you are using 9 stops pretty frequently, or feel the need for graduated ND filters, then moving to the excellent Lee system makes a lot of sense. However, the Lee system is more bulky, expensive and the glass Big Stopper makes me nervous the minute I take it out of its tin.
So I would go ahead with the Hoya filters for now and maybe make a decision on the Lee system down the road if necessary.
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Otter

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Re: Neutral Density Filters - HELP !
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2014, 02:11:40 PM »
As you have supplied wonderful photos of Lees shoddy workmanship in the manufacturing of your filter system, could you please supply a photo that was ruined by this inferior system?

No? I didn't think so.

Some expect a bit more of the gear they with their hard earned money buy, I guess. Like something they come to expect from other manufacturers: deliver flawlessly when it comes to such things as basic chemical treatments to an adapter ring. Never had that from any other manufacturer.
Let's say it this way: If you buy a car and it already has markings on the finish and the window is a bit broken or you can't get some color finish off of it, then you take it home anyways without questioning that for a second? Really odd attitute I must say. What "show me your pics" has got to do with that, is beyond me...

I did send the ND glass back for a replacement. Fingers crossed...

I am on the fence between the two parties speaking of the quality of these filters.  I think we are talking about the difference of spots being on the disc breaks versus being on the outside of the car.  If I have spots on my disc breaks(adapter), I do not care, if it's on the body(filter), there's a problem.  If the wide angle adapter has some marks from being dipped a certain way, it really does not matter at the end of the day.  You're just nitpicking at this point.  Probably because you are unhappy with yellow spots on your very expensive pro filter.  I would definitely send back the filter though.  Unacceptable, whether it shows up in your shots or not.  It may even be at the pixel level(noise) but you would be able to notice a difference if you put the two side by side and went over them with a fine tooth comb.  Regardless at the 200 pound price point it shouldn't be happening.  I have heard Lee has been really upped their production of their filters and that the quality is dropping a bit due to the mass production.
For the record, I have the Lee foundation kit, big and little stopper and a good amount of grad filters.  I didn't go with their CPL because there is better on the market.  I'm not sure if this makes me biased or not...

mackguyver

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Re: Neutral Density Filters - HELP !
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2014, 02:33:30 PM »
If you don't want to spend all that cash for the Lee system, I can recommend the Tiffen ND filter kit:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/674667-REG/Tiffen_82NDK3_82mm_Digital_Neutral_Density.html

It's worked well for me for a couple of years now and the filters stack fine on their own or with my B+W XS-PRO C-PL, which is usually what I stack them with.  Here are some sample shots from another ND filter thread:
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=16796.msg414553#msg414553

brad-man

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Re: Neutral Density Filters - HELP !
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2014, 09:57:23 PM »
As you have supplied wonderful photos of Lees shoddy workmanship in the manufacturing of your filter system, could you please supply a photo that was ruined by this inferior system?

No? I didn't think so.

Some expect a bit more of the gear they with their hard earned money buy, I guess. Like something they come to expect from other manufacturers: deliver flawlessly when it comes to such things as basic chemical treatments to an adapter ring. Never had that from any other manufacturer.
Let's say it this way: If you buy a car and it already has markings on the finish and the window is a bit broken or you can't get some color finish off of it, then you take it home anyways without questioning that for a second? Really odd attitute I must say. What "show me your pics" has got to do with that, is beyond me...

I did send the ND glass back for a replacement. Fingers crossed...

Reading your post made me examine my one OEM Lee adapter and it also has the marks from anodizing. I would never have noticed them otherwise. I do not feel that they will effect the performance in any way. The adapters are, however, completely overpriced. If you decide to keep the system (which I would strongly recommend) you can purchase additional adapters of various sizes for different lenses from "the filter dude" on ebay for $25. They also have marks (as do all anodized products if you look closely enough) but no "worse" than Lees.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/the.filter.dude/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=
I have never needed to use Lees warranty, but have never heard any complaints, so I'm sure they will send you a new filter.

PikkieChick

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Re: Neutral Density Filters - HELP !
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2014, 10:27:57 PM »
Hi Everyone - thankyou for all of your help and comments, very helpful.  As I travel, ALOT, the Lee filter system isn't possible. Would be lovely, but not possible. I've got a B+W Polariser already and have opted for hi end Hoya screw in filters, 3 and 6 stop.  Will play with these for a bit and when I stop travelling might get a lore permanent system ! Fun times ahead !  :)

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Re: Neutral Density Filters - HELP !
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2014, 10:27:57 PM »

kaihp

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Re: Neutral Density Filters - HELP !
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2014, 05:46:56 AM »
If you don't want to spend all that cash for the Lee system, I can recommend the Tiffen ND filter kit:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/674667-REG/Tiffen_82NDK3_82mm_Digital_Neutral_Density.html

It's worked well for me for a couple of years now and the filters stack fine on their own or with my B+W XS-PRO C-PL, which is usually what I stack them with.  Here are some sample shots from another ND filter thread:
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=16796.msg414553#msg414553

Alas, I cannot recommend Tiffen's ND0.9 filters as it reduces the contrast quite a lot.

Bryan Carnathan found the same thing in his 10-stop ND filter test

M_S

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Re: Neutral Density Filters - HELP !
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2014, 02:39:03 PM »
Got my replacement adapter ring from my dealer. Great service btw: Calumet. From all the adapters I got, this looks ok. Still has those marks on either side, but not some specles or material damage as the other ones.

The ND pro glass looks ok too now, no yellow specles. I will look at that a bit closer when I have time.

So far I have then:
* W/A adapter ring
* CPL adapter ring
* filter folder
* ND 0.9 por glass

Next will be either another ND 0.9, a little stopper or a big stopper. Haven't found any realiable info about color casts about the higher ND ones.
Finally after that some soft grades an I am done.

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Re: Neutral Density Filters - HELP !
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2014, 02:39:03 PM »