October 30, 2014, 10:07:36 AM

Author Topic: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in Q2? [CR1]  (Read 17297 times)

LoneRider

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in Q2? [CR1]
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2014, 03:32:10 PM »
Amusing thread.

Fir of all, if it is a Q3 release, my vacation at the end of Q2 beginning of Q3 will have to live with the 7D and 50D I currently own, and that sucks.

Secondly, if it is a Q2 announce and Q3 release, prototypes are not a word used at this point. There might be some firmware changes between cameras. But these would be Beta or pre-production cameras.

As far as problems writing to the CF cards, those issues should be long found in regression tests and such. I would hope. I would expect bugs will be a minimum, there will be some. But I would also expect any photographer to have a few 1000, or more exposures on any new camera before they head to the sporting event, no?

Like seriously, who would grab a new camera and the start taking event pictures, unless you absolutely had to??

just say'n.

I have been in production development for a while now, and unless Canon is an absolute broken mess of a large corporation, I would expect there is significantly less risk with than some of y'all think. I have to expect these cameras have already been vibe-table tested with accelerated aging tests, temp testing for both environmental use, but again accelerated aging tests, regressions tests, life tests and so on.

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in Q2? [CR1]
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2014, 03:32:10 PM »

LoneRider

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in Q2? [CR1]
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2014, 03:52:07 PM »
Wow, just reread my last post, sorry for the bad English. I reviewed it a bit too quickly.

Drizzt321

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in Q2? [CR1]
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2014, 04:02:31 PM »
From what I've read Sandisk, Arri, Phase One, Lexar and Sandisk support CFast 2.0.

XQD was developed by Sandisk but not manufactured by them. Lexar and Sony are the sole XQD memory card makers and Nikon D4 the sole camera supporting it. Some months ago BH Photo claimed that Lexar discontinued XQD but Lexar rebukes this.

Only XQD you can buy off BH is from Sony.

CFast is not available on BH as of my writing.

My thoughts are the next 1D, 5D and possibly the 7D will support CFast if they start allowing uncompressed video straight to internal memory card or 4K resolution recording.

CFast would also be required if Canon were to adopt a TLR-like technology to attain higher continuous RAW fps. As I see it memory card read/writes are the main culprit holding back cameras.

XQD and CFast are based on PCIe and SATA technologies. As such are restricted by the same limitations. Like SATA rev 3.0 peaks at 600MB/s and PCIe rev 3.0 peaks at 800MB/s.

Next step up has both CFast and XQD peaking at 1.6GB/s. I think they will be updated once 8K resolution recordings become popular. In say 5, 10 or 15 years from now?

I didn't think Canon manufactured memory cards. Maybe rebranded, sure.

Anyway, I thought part of the limitation on FPS was the shutter & mirror. I'd think that on a 1DX they have pretty big memory buffers, yet they can't speed up the shutter. If they actually can get a real global shutter on the next line of sensors, they could really pump things up as they would no longer be reliant on physical mechanisms.
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dolina

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in Q2? [CR1]
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2014, 04:06:25 PM »
Amusing thread.

Fir of all, if it is a Q3 release, my vacation at the end of Q2 beginning of Q3 will have to live with the 7D and 50D I currently own, and that sucks.

Secondly, if it is a Q2 announce and Q3 release, prototypes are not a word used at this point. There might be some firmware changes between cameras. But these would be Beta or pre-production cameras.

As far as problems writing to the CF cards, those issues should be long found in regression tests and such. I would hope. I would expect bugs will be a minimum, there will be some. But I would also expect any photographer to have a few 1000, or more exposures on any new camera before they head to the sporting event, no?

Like seriously, who would grab a new camera and the start taking event pictures, unless you absolutely had to??

just say'n.

I have been in production development for a while now, and unless Canon is an absolute broken mess of a large corporation, I would expect there is significantly less risk with than some of y'all think. I have to expect these cameras have already been vibe-table tested with accelerated aging tests, temp testing for both environmental use, but again accelerated aging tests, regressions tests, life tests and so on.
Often times it is a job requirement imposed by the photoagency or directly with Canon itself.

Any who SATA Express and PCIe 4 (both 1.6GB/s) will come out by 2017 with Intel Skylake.

2017 4K resolution 32-inch iMacs anyone?
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dolina

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in Q2? [CR1]
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2014, 04:12:38 PM »
Canon cameras not memory cards. ;) Unless of course ARRI and Phase Ones also make their own memory cards.

The limitation is indeed the mirror hence Canon going TLR-like.

Or as you mentioned a global shutter would work as well.

1DX benefits from the buffer and UDMA 7 CF cards.

I didn't think Canon manufactured memory cards. Maybe rebranded, sure.

Anyway, I thought part of the limitation on FPS was the shutter & mirror. I'd think that on a 1DX they have pretty big memory buffers, yet they can't speed up the shutter. If they actually can get a real global shutter on the next line of sensors, they could really pump things up as they would no longer be reliant on physical mechanisms.
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dolina

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in Q2? [CR1]
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2014, 05:00:40 PM »
Rereading it appears that SATA Express uses PCI Express to achieve 16Gbit/s throughput.

Perhaps this is why everyone but Sony & Nikon abandoned XQD.
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Drizzt321

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in Q2? [CR1]
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2014, 06:25:55 PM »
Rereading it appears that SATA Express uses PCI Express to achieve 16Gbit/s throughput.

Perhaps this is why everyone but Sony & Nikon abandoned XQD.

Sony probably because they just refuse to give up on any format they can try and lock people into. See mini-disc and memory stick.

Nikon, I don't see how they have 'abandoned' it yet. They came out with a camera that used it, and it's still a production model. If their next pro (D900, D5, whatever) camera comes out that has CFast, then I'll say they've abandoned it. In that case, they'll have abandoned it and backed the wrong horse for a little bit.
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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in Q2? [CR1]
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2014, 06:25:55 PM »

garyknrd

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in Q2? [CR1]
« Reply #37 on: February 01, 2014, 10:47:15 AM »
I would love to see it materialize.  But, this is getting kinda silly.
Seems like once every two or three weeks this get's thrown out... LOL
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hampai

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in Q2? [CR1]
« Reply #38 on: February 01, 2014, 11:51:27 AM »
Its time to get my Fony soon if Canon don't wake up.

Sabaki

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in Q2? [CR1]
« Reply #39 on: February 01, 2014, 01:25:56 PM »
Number one feature I want for the 7D II?

A friggin' release date!
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mkabi

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in Q2? [CR1]
« Reply #40 on: February 01, 2014, 01:55:58 PM »
Its time to get my Fony soon if Canon don't wake up.

Wrong thread. Look at the "Wake up Canon" thread or the "Switching Systems" thread or the multitude of threads of the Sony thread. No point in comparing a Sony A7/A7R to the 7DII, let me save you some time and tell you that the IQ of the 7DII will not be better than the Sony A7/A7R. Because the 7DII will be a an APS-C and the Sony will be a full frame.

Number one feature I want for the 7D II?

A friggin' release date!

With your gear list, can I recommend a 6D, a 5DIII, or even a 1DX(if you can afford it)? Reality is... No matter if they cram a few more MP into the 7D or not... Its still going to be underwhelming compared to a full frame camera.
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Don Haines

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in Q2? [CR1]
« Reply #41 on: February 01, 2014, 04:42:26 PM »
Number one feature I want for the 7D II?

A friggin' release date!
+1 :)
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jrista

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in Q2? [CR1]
« Reply #42 on: February 01, 2014, 04:53:24 PM »
Why would a pro want to use a test camera at something like the Olympics and/or the world cup. Surely they wouldn't be allowed to use/sell the images made with the test units due to the NDA's they would have signed. Canon or Nikon would have to compensate the photographers enough to cover the potential lost revenues from not being able to sell any pictures. In which case the photogs would just use the test units as teathered cameras and shoot as normal with their own kit so who really cares how reliable the test unit is. No?

Test models and prototypes are different things. A prototype is a tested model that needs to be put in the hands of a user to see how they like it. You don't "test" prototypes, you "test drive" prototypes! This is Canon getting the 7D II out into the field for some cuddle time with potential 7D II customers so they can get some real-world feedback about handling, ergonomics, performance, functionality...and any quirks that might pop up along the way.

We aren't talking about a beta test here where bugs are likely...were talking about a small set of potential models nearly ready for RTM. These bodies should have already been pretty thoroughly tested, so the chances of horrid failure out in the field should be pretty low. Its like a prototype of a new concept car...concept car companies don't hand out prototypes for people to go driving around on your average community streets if there is anything but a remote potential the car will fail, and as close to zero potential as possible that the car would fail in any hazardous manner.

I'd happily take a prototype 7D II to the Olympics...hell, I'd be ecstatic. I wouldn't want to take a preliminary test model 7D II to...well, anything.

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in Q2? [CR1]
« Reply #42 on: February 01, 2014, 04:53:24 PM »

expatinasia

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in Q2? [CR1]
« Reply #43 on: February 01, 2014, 09:01:28 PM »
I'd happily take a prototype 7D II to the Olympics...hell, I'd be ecstatic. I wouldn't want to take a preliminary test model 7D II to...well, anything.

Only if it were to be used for fun shots, or unimportant games that you aren't being paid to cover. Why? Simply because as a sport's journalist covering such important event you would want the best body for the job, and that would be a 1D X.

I am looking forward to the 7D Mark II but it will not be as good as the 1D X, it will give more reach, be useful in that regard but I would very much doubt it would be better than the 1D X.
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dgatwood

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in Q2? [CR1]
« Reply #44 on: February 01, 2014, 11:27:00 PM »
XQD and CFast are based on PCIe and SATA technologies. As such are restricted by the same limitations. Like SATA rev 3.0 peaks at 600MB/s and PCIe rev 3.0 peaks at 800MB/s.

You're being a little imprecise there.  PCIe peaks at 985 MB/s of bidirectional bandwidth per lane.  However, PCIe allows you to aggregate (bond) up to 32 lanes.  An x32 PCIe bus, therefore, maxes out at almost 16 gigabytes per second in each direction.  Mind you, XQD currently provides only a single lane, but you could trivially turn it into a much faster standard just by throwing enough additional pins at the problem (four extra pins per lane, ignoring any ground pins that might be required to prevent crosstalk).

For a data card standard, unless I'm missing something, you could easily do away with all but three of the first 22 pins in the PCIe standard (the two SMBUS pins and one 3.3V rail).  The next 14 would probably be required, though perhaps not all of the grounds.  So you're at about 17 pins for the first lane, and possibly fewer.  If you then add more lanes using the same ground-opposite-data scheme that PCIe connectors use, add 8 pins per additional lane.

So if you used the same 50-pin connector that CF cards use, for example, you ought to be able to do 4x PCIe with nine pins to spare (assuming that you either require everything to do 4x or require the mode to be negotiated over the SMBUS instead of using detect pins).  If you use those nine pins as detect pins in some particularly smart way, you might even be able to achieve backwards compatibility with CF in both directions....

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Re: Canon EOS 7D Mark II in Q2? [CR1]
« Reply #44 on: February 01, 2014, 11:27:00 PM »