September 18, 2014, 05:49:04 AM

Author Topic: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS  (Read 7936 times)

neuroanatomist

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Re: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2014, 09:43:24 AM »
I was talking about the 70mm wide end - it's probably there to go along with Canon's new 24-70 lenses and to phase out the 24-105, but the 70-100 range will come at a cost and it's doubtful how many people will need this part on a tele lens... if you want flexible get a 70-300L as this is much more portable.

There are many times with my 70-200 when I find that 70mm is just barely wide enough for me not to have to change lenses.  The wide end of my 100-400 requires me to pop on the 40/2.8 more than a 70-400 would.  Also, Nikon has an 80-400…   ;)
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Re: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2014, 09:43:24 AM »

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Re: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2014, 10:05:02 AM »
The wide end of my 100-400 requires me to pop on the 40/2.8 more than a 70-400 would.

In that case, they should stop making lenses except for a new 14-400 :->

Also, Nikon has an 80-400…   ;)

Ok, I admit that's a striking reason and we can start impressing the Nikonians after all the shameful reporting about sensors, wide angle lenses and whatnot :-o

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Re: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2014, 10:18:37 AM »
The wide end of my 100-400 requires me to pop on the 40/2.8 more than a 70-400 would.

In that case, they should stop making lenses except for a new 14-400 :->

Also, Nikon has an 80-400…   ;)

Ok, I admit that's a striking reason and we can start impressing the Nikonians after all the shameful reporting about sensors, wide angle lenses and whatnot :-o

Canon 100-400 Sept. 1998
Nikon 80-400 March 2001
Nikon 80-400 March 2013

... yeah, I can see Canon wanting to "one-up" Nikon and go 70-400 but it also means 24-70, 70-400, no overlap, no gap. It's like they want people to buy fewer lenses.

kubelik

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Re: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2014, 10:31:10 AM »
Perhaps it's a case of you-always-want-what-you-can't-have but I feel like Canon is totally missing the gauntlet just thrown by Tamron with the new 150-600. instead of covering the 70mm-100mm range yet again for the zillionth time, how about moving up into the 500mm or 600mm range for consumers and serious amateurs? I think that they will absolutely lose sales over this, not because the Tamron is amazing (although initial reports seem to show that it's pretty good at the least) but because Canon simply has zero competitive offerings in the focal length-to-price class. How about a 500mm f/5.6 L prime to replace the 400mm f/5.6? How about matching the 150-600mm variable aperture, or a 200-600, or a 150-500?

I know that the Tamron is just hitting and it will take some time for Canon to rework its lens designs and patents. I also know it's easy for webgeeks to sit and critique decisions that were probably made for very good reasons based on more factors than we will ever know about. But I seriously think Canon has been short-sighted in assuming that the 400mm maximum focal length would satisfy amateur photographers forever. Just because that was a realistic assumption 20 years ago doesn't mean it's a realistic assumption now. I have way more confidence in Sigma creating a competitor to the new Tammy than Canon at this point; can't wait until Sigma waves their new magic wand over the Bigma lineup.

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Re: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2014, 10:44:42 AM »
I keep wondering if Canon would come out with a 200-600 F5.6....

It would probably cost $3500 or so, but it fit in nicely above the 70-200's and by keeping the zoom ratio to 3-1 they could keep the kind of IQ that we expect from a L lens.... A 6X zoom is a bit harder to keep hi IQ on....
« Last Edit: February 04, 2014, 12:08:56 PM by Don Haines »
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Re: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2014, 11:21:20 AM »
The 24-105 is still one of the best ranges I have found.  I love the 24-70 but have had a lot of times when I shoot events I wish I had more length amd when I shoot the 70-200 want to go wider.  IQ is not the same as these two beasts, but as a kit lens, it is pretty solid. 

Regarding Canon going longer, Maybe I would have preferred even a 150-500, but I think what Canon sees is even though the 100-400 is so old, it still sells and is still out there, and that while many want longer, a 70-400 has a larger market range than a 150-500 and my guess is the IQ and amount of glass starts becoming a factor so easier for them to go wider than go longer. 

I have been looking in this range for a LONG time.  Covet the 200-400 but that is a dream lens.  If the 100-400 was F/4 I would probably have picked it up, as a variable... think it is just off for what I want and still want more length.  The Bigma has tempted me, but never enough to bite. 

Also depends.  If the 70-400 delivers the IQ of the 70-300 than probably still enough to pay more than lose the extra reach of the Tamron, which to me is more of a 150-500 with some extra might be so-so for the last 100

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Re: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2014, 11:31:34 AM »
Canon EF 100-300mm f/4 L IS with built in 1.4x TC sounds like a much better proposition. In my mind this sort of lens will satisfy the needs of the people looking for a replacement to the 100-400 push-pull zoom and it sits obediently below the 200-400mm f/4 1.4x TC.

With TC-on that would give 140-420 f/5.6. If priced between $2100-2600 and the IQ at f/4 matched the 100mm macro (non-L) and 300mm IS then I'd say they have a winner.

P.S. (100macro non-L) + (300mm f/4L IS) + (1.4x TC) = $2550
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Re: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2014, 11:31:34 AM »

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Re: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2014, 11:35:57 AM »
I was talking about the 70mm wide end - it's probably there to go along with Canon's new 24-70 lenses and to phase out the 24-105, but the 70-100 range will come at a cost and it's doubtful how many people will need this part on a tele lens... if you want flexible get a 70-300L as this is much more portable.

There are many times with my 70-200 when I find that 70mm is just barely wide enough for me not to have to change lenses.  The wide end of my 100-400 requires me to pop on the 40/2.8 more than a 70-400 would. 

+1. I am still rediscovering focal lengths and field of view with my recent shift to FF, and I just shot a group photo with 12 people, spaced nicely apart at 70mm. That 30mm will allow a lot of flexibility, IMO.
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Lee Jay

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Re: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2014, 12:01:45 PM »
I can see many applications, especially in sports and action.  I shot a lot with the 300 F/2.8 IS II last year, and definitely was aching for some extra reach.

No doubt a lot of people are, I was talking about the 70mm wide end - it's probably there to go along with Canon's new 24-70 lenses and to phase out the 24-105, but the 70-100 range will come at a cost and it's doubtful how many people will need this part on a tele lens... if you want flexible get a 70-300L as this is much more portable.

I shoot aircraft (often R/C) all the time, and they go from "dot in the distance" where proper framing means around 4,000mm to landing 20 feet away, which means more like 40mm.  They can do this in a matter of seconds.  Even at full-scale airshows, I usually use my 70-200/2.8L IS II with 2x TC III and when the planes land and taxi by the crowd, I have to take the teleconverter off and even then sometimes 70mm isn't wide enough.

So, yeah, the wide end would be most helpful to me, even though I'd use it at the long end most of the time.

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Re: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2014, 12:03:26 PM »
I love my 70-300mm (great IQ, and still so portable). I expect any 70-400mm will be significantly larger (& more expensive) - but would be a great 'zoom' birding lens.

I just got my 70-300 last Saturday, went to an orchid & butterfly garden straight afterwards to test it and instantly fell in love with this lens! Immediately thereafter I thought about my 100-400 and how it could really use an update because it's getting a little long in the tooth. If you consider the fact that my 70-300L is pin-sharp at 300mm and f/5.6 the need to update the 100-400 becomes even more apparent. Considering my L lens line-up it's the oldest model there and the only one without 'weather sealing' (FWIW). Very interested to see what Canon comes up with. Until then I think my 70-300L will see more use outside of 'travel' that I initially bought it for.
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Re: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2014, 03:17:18 PM »
... I would rather see something in the 200-460mm f4-5.6 range ...

... if the replacement for the 100-400 is going to be extended in range and noticeably larger, I'd much prefer the extended range at the long end e.g. 100-500 or 150-500 ...

+1

I really don't want much overlap with my 70-200, and would prefer the extra range on the long end. And anything more than a 3x zoom in this FL range has too much potential to "strain" IQ, IMO. I'd love to see something anywhere in the range of 150-450 to 180-540 f/4-5.6.

Canon EF 100-300mm f/4 L IS with built in 1.4x TC sounds like a much better proposition. In my mind this sort of lens will satisfy the needs of the people looking for a replacement to the 100-400 push-pull zoom and it sits obediently below the 200-400mm f/4 1.4x TC.

With TC-on that would give 140-420 f/5.6. If priced between $2100-2600 and the IQ at f/4 matched the 100mm macro (non-L) and 300mm IS then I'd say they have a winner.

P.S. (100macro non-L) + (300mm f/4L IS) + (1.4x TC) = $2550

The notion of a 100-300 f/4 + 1.4TC is also intriguing. It's wishful thinking that it's price would equal the $2,550 sum of the prices of a 100 macro + 300 f/4 + 1.4x TC, but I'd willingly shell out up to $1,000 more for a lens like this.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2014, 05:05:17 PM by JonAustin »
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Re: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS
« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2014, 03:27:55 PM »
It would be nice if they got it down to 70mm. IMO,on FF, that makes a lot of difference, then it can be more useful as a general/landscape lens as well as a reach/wildlife lens.

I wonder if it could match the 70-300L and 70-200 f/4 IS over those ranges in terms of IQ.

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Re: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS
« Reply #27 on: February 04, 2014, 05:12:32 PM »
Rather surprised by this one.  I mean, I fully expect the 100-400 replacement this year--it's long overdue.  But I expected it to be a 100-400 F4-5.6.  A 70-400 is a bit out of left field.  On the one hand, I can see how an extra 30 at the wide end will have a bigger impact on framing than an extra 50 at the long end would.  And I get how it matches better with the 24-70 and competes with the 80-400 from Nikon.  But still, if I was going to have to pay a weight/size penalty, I'd MUCH rather it be at the long end!  If I'm putting a long lens on, it means I'm trying to catch something very distant, or moderately distant, and very tiny, like a bird.  I'd sooner see a 100-450, or +1 on preferring a 100-500 or 150-500 lens.  Or for that matter, simply the 100-400 F4-5.6 that was previously rumoured--same range, and slightly faster at the narrow end. 

I spend most of my time at 400 with my current 100-400 installed, often only zooming out to acquire the subject, before zooming out again.  Any time I do need to stay zoomed out, I generally find the 100 is either sufficient, or I'm grabbing my second body with a shorter lens.  I rarely ever long for a wider fov on my 100-400....but I FREQUENTLY wish I had even more reach!

Whatever the final format, I fully expect the 100-400 replacement to be much sharper than the current, and thus a worthwhile upgrade.  That being said, if it comes out at 70-400, I'd be buying it in spite of the fact that it starts at 70....not because it starts at 70.  It will be wasted weight and bulk, as far as I'm concerned.  I'd rather have the extra weight put into a slight aperture improvement, or an improvement at the long end...and I suspect that might be the general consensus for most current users of the 100-400!
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Re: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS
« Reply #27 on: February 04, 2014, 05:12:32 PM »

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Re: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS
« Reply #28 on: February 04, 2014, 05:12:55 PM »
<p>2014 will see the replacement of the Canon EF 100-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS

I've just seen some pink elephants swimming in my beer  ::)

Lee Jay

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Re: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS
« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2014, 06:32:58 PM »
It will be wasted weight and bulk, as far as I'm concerned.

Probably a negligible amount.  The Sony 70-400/4-5.6 weighs 1.5kg versus the 100-400L at 1.4kg, and Sony's lenses aren't exactly known for their light weight.

The long end drives the size of lenses of this type.  The only real way to make them smaller at all is to go to a prime, and the 400/5.6L is still 1.25kg even though it lacks IS.

In other words, I suspect the 70-100 range on a lens such as this adds barely anything to the weight.  Maybe an ounce or two.

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Re: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS
« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2014, 06:32:58 PM »