October 21, 2014, 10:30:43 AM

Author Topic: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS  (Read 8204 times)

neuroanatomist

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Re: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS
« Reply #30 on: February 04, 2014, 06:45:08 PM »
...I suspect the 70-100 range on a lens such as this adds barely anything to the weight.  Maybe an ounce or two.

I'm more worried about what it might subtract from the IQ...
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Re: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS
« Reply #30 on: February 04, 2014, 06:45:08 PM »

Lee Jay

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Re: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS
« Reply #31 on: February 04, 2014, 07:34:35 PM »
...I suspect the 70-100 range on a lens such as this adds barely anything to the weight.  Maybe an ounce or two.

I'm more worried about what it might subtract from the IQ...

It's a bigger issue if the lens has to cross into retrofocus territory (like the 28-300L does).  Remember, the Sigma 50-500 is actually better than the 150-500.

9VIII

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Re: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS
« Reply #32 on: February 04, 2014, 08:49:49 PM »
How about a 500mm f/5.6 L prime to replace the 400mm f/5.6?

I actually think that would be better than a 600f5.6, given that 500f5.6 is only an 89mm diameter front element, with modern design they might be able to keep the weight similar and price it under $4,000, anything 600f5.6 would still be heavy and expensive compared to the 400f5.6.

I keep wondering if Canon would come out with a 200-600 F5.6....

It would probably cost $3500 or so, but it fit in nicely above the 70-200's and by keeping the zoom ratio to 3-1 they could keep the kind of IQ that we expect from a L lens.... A 6X zoom is a bit harder to keep hi IQ on....

I think that's wishful thinking. 600f5.6 is the same as the 300f2.8, and then the extra cost with zooming? Now, maybe they don't have to pack it full of Fluorite, but I really don't think Canon would ever sell a 600mm anything for anything near what we would consider reasonable.
Hopefully competition proves me wrong though.
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Marauder

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Re: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS
« Reply #33 on: February 04, 2014, 09:46:27 PM »
It will be wasted weight and bulk, as far as I'm concerned.

Probably a negligible amount.  The Sony 70-400/4-5.6 weighs 1.5kg versus the 100-400L at 1.4kg, and Sony's lenses aren't exactly known for their light weight.

The long end drives the size of lenses of this type.  The only real way to make them smaller at all is to go to a prime, and the 400/5.6L is still 1.25kg even though it lacks IS.

In other words, I suspect the 70-100 range on a lens such as this adds barely anything to the weight.  Maybe an ounce or two.

It will be wasted weight and bulk, as far as I'm concerned.[/quote]

Probably a negligible amount.  The Sony 70-400/4-5.6 weighs 1.5kg versus the 100-400L at 1.4kg, and Sony's lenses aren't exactly known for their light weight.

The long end drives the size of lenses of this type.  The only real way to make them smaller at all is to go to a prime, and the 400/5.6L is still 1.25kg even though it lacks IS.

In other words, I suspect the 70-100 range on a lens such as this adds barely anything to the weight.  Maybe an ounce or two.
[/quote]

I think I made an assumption on weight and bulk, given that the previous spec for a 100-400 replacement was touted as being a F4-5.6 100-400 and this one is a F4.5-5.6 70-400.  It seems like they've traded the slightly wider aperture of the previous prototype (at the wide end) for the extra 30mm of wide-angle focal length.  I felt that implied that they have to use a slightly narrower aperture to provide the extra 30mm and keep within a specified weight limit.  In essence, it was no more than a "guess" on my part.

Whatever format it takes, be it 100-400 or 70-400, I expect the lens will be a major improvement on the current model.  I just don't think it being a 70-400, rather than a 100-400 adds any value to me regardless.  Even on those occasions when I do zoom out on my 100-400, I usually find myself around 150, 200, 250 or 300.  And when I do use 100, I don't think I'd gain much by being able to go to 70.   Even if the weight, bulk and/or $ cost is negligible, it doesn't seem to be a very worthwhile change to me.   I'd rather gain at the telephoto end.  But it will be AF speed and IQ improvements that really decide if this new lens is a winner!
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Re: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS
« Reply #34 on: February 04, 2014, 10:56:55 PM »
Good range ... if the IQ is good, it'll make a nice second lens for many to complement the 24-70
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Re: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS
« Reply #35 on: February 04, 2014, 11:17:47 PM »
I would like see a 70-300 F4 better then the current 70-300L and take 1.4 converter.


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Re: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS
« Reply #36 on: February 04, 2014, 11:28:41 PM »
I'd expect to see a new 70-400 take advantage of the same design techniques as the 70-300 and use other tricks to save weight.  It should be shorter and lighter than the current 100-400L.  The cost per pound will jump dramatically.
 
The issue with rear focusing groups is that TC's often can't be used because the focusing group hits it as it moves.  Of course, the design can be changed to allow it, it depends on the design choices made.
I haven't seen a well done comparison of the Tamron against the Canon 100-400 with TC, but they should be similar based on what I've seen so far.  Testing those long focal length lenses is very difficult, so we may not have a lot of good test data to pour over.

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Re: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS
« Reply #36 on: February 04, 2014, 11:28:41 PM »

dufflover

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Re: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS
« Reply #37 on: February 04, 2014, 11:37:07 PM »
As soon as a new Canon 400 gives up it's size advantage there already are existing competitors such as the Sigmas and Tamron. I have no doubt any new Canon L would blow those out of the water (given the 100-400L is still competitive with the Bigmas) but when it gives up it's size advantage, personally I'd rather stick with my Sigma 120-300 OS (with it's decent 400mm f/4.5 or f/5). The collapsed size of a 100-400 is the main reason why I re-bought one.

It probably could be shorter, but obviously the patent says they aren't going down that route, at least for this particular design.
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Re: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS
« Reply #38 on: February 05, 2014, 12:11:37 AM »


It probably could be shorter, but obviously the patent says they aren't going down that route, at least for this particular design.

How is it obvious? 
 
There are two patents, and I read thru both of them.  One common theme was to make the lenses shorter and smaller in diameter.  They do not give sizes and weights for the possible designs, but do emphasize that they are giving the size a high priority, at least, that's what my interpretation was. 
 
" In recent years, as for the imaging device using a solid state image pickup device, advanced features and the whole equipment are miniaturized. And it is small, and is a high zooming ratio, and the photographing optical system used for it is required to be a zoom lens of high resolving power moreover. To be a zoom lens which has a vibration proof function (it corrects) which reduces the blur of the image which originates in the vibration at the time of taking a photograph, etc., and is produced etc. is demanded. "
 
"According to the present invention, the whole system with high-speed, easy vibration control operation and easy maintaining optical performance good, even if it faces vibration control is small, and the zoom lens of a high zooming ratio is obtained.  "
 
 
 

Lee Jay

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Re: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS
« Reply #39 on: February 05, 2014, 09:06:25 AM »
I just don't think it being a 70-400, rather than a 100-400 adds any value to me regardless.

Think about it like this.

With Canon finally getting the clue about f/8 AF points, this lens could be a 100-560/6.3-8 with a 1.4x TC attached.

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Re: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS
« Reply #40 on: February 05, 2014, 12:08:00 PM »
I was talking about the 70mm wide end - it's probably there to go along with Canon's new 24-70 lenses and to phase out the 24-105, but the 70-100 range will come at a cost and it's doubtful how many people will need this part on a tele lens... if you want flexible get a 70-300L as this is much more portable.

There are many times with my 70-200 when I find that 70mm is just barely wide enough for me not to have to change lenses.  The wide end of my 100-400 requires me to pop on the 40/2.8 more than a 70-400 would.  Also, Nikon has an 80-400…   ;)

Yes, given good image quality (and I think Canon can deliver), a 70-400 would be a very useful and exciting range.
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Re: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS
« Reply #41 on: February 05, 2014, 12:25:59 PM »
I would like see a 70-300 F4 better then the current 70-300L and take 1.4 converter.

I presume you mean better than the current 70-300L due to being a constant f4 aperture ? The current 70-300L is a superb lens.

A constant f4 aperture would result in a huge lens, losing a lot of the current one's handy appeal.

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Re: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS
« Reply #42 on: February 05, 2014, 12:37:09 PM »
Yes, given good image quality (and I think Canon can deliver), a 70-400 would be a very useful and exciting range.

I'm probably one of the few enthusiasts who thinks weight is an issue - that's why I'm rather happy with the 70-300L+60d/6d combination. Combined with a flash bracket & large speedlite I can carry around & handhold this all day, complete with crawling through the environment shooting wildlife... not that I'd give back a free 200-400L or 70-400L, but I'd think these weight & size classes need different handling.

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Re: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS
« Reply #42 on: February 05, 2014, 12:37:09 PM »

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Re: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS
« Reply #43 on: February 05, 2014, 12:44:53 PM »
Yes, given good image quality (and I think Canon can deliver), a 70-400 would be a very useful and exciting range.

I'm probably one of the few enthusiasts who thinks weight is an issue - that's why I'm rather happy with the 70-300L+60d/6d combination. Combined with a flash bracket & large speedlite I can carry around & handhold this all day, complete with crawling through the environment shooting wildlife... not that I'd give back a free 200-400L or 70-400L, but I'd think these weight & size classes need different handling.

A 100-400 is actually surprisingly good to hand-hold, I think Canon can do a good job om making a 70-400 that's not too heave, as mentioned before in this thread.
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Re: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS
« Reply #44 on: February 05, 2014, 12:52:19 PM »
I think Canon can do a good job om making a 70-400 that's not too heave, as mentioned before in this thread.

We'll see, but the length of this patent design might indicate a high weight - they probably don't just put air inside it :-) ... the 100-400L is 189mm max, this patent is 303mm!

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Re: Patent: Canon EF 70-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS
« Reply #44 on: February 05, 2014, 12:52:19 PM »