October 23, 2014, 07:54:46 AM

Author Topic: 24-70 f/2.8 L II front coating peeling off?  (Read 10712 times)

shhooter

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Re: 24-70 f/2.8 L II front coating peeling off?
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2014, 05:20:54 PM »
I got a repair estimate of $555 today ($269 out of warranty labor charge, $254 for a new front element, $14 shipping, $18 tax). Ouch. Not what I was hoping for, especially since I don't believe it's something i've done to cause the coating to begin to disintegrate. The rest of the lens is in pristine condition and it's only 16 months old. The repair description says "front element scratched".

I called the repair center and asked to speak to the technician who inspected the lens and was told the techs don't speak directly to customers, but they can e-mail me a picture and detailed description of what they found in 1-2 business days, which I requested. We'll see what they have to say, but i'm not sure where to go from there since the lens is out of warranty. Disappointed in Canon right now, i'd at least like someone to tell me what it is they think happened to the thing before i'm into it for $2855...

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Re: 24-70 f/2.8 L II front coating peeling off?
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2014, 05:20:54 PM »

JustMeOregon

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Re: 24-70 f/2.8 L II front coating peeling off?
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2014, 05:44:28 PM »
Ouch is right! I wish you the best of luck, but unfortunately "they" hold all the cards... You mentioned earlier that you sometimes used a LensPen on the front element. Do you think that it could be a contributing factor? I believe that LensPens contain an ultra-fine graphite abrasive don't they? I have never used one so I really don't know for sure...

privatebydesign

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Re: 24-70 f/2.8 L II front coating peeling off?
« Reply #32 on: February 20, 2014, 05:54:25 PM »
No don't try to speak to a tech, they have no say in anything. Speak to a manager, then go above them, keep getting names of people higher, even the basic telephone agent has a 10% discretionary discount, managers have more.

But I would very heavily point out that they have sent it to Japan for evaluation, they would not do that unless they believed it was a serious issue, they deal with scratches every single day and none of them get sent anywhere.
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shhooter

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Re: 24-70 f/2.8 L II front coating peeling off?
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2014, 06:35:27 PM »
No don't try to speak to a tech, they have no say in anything. Speak to a manager, then go above them, keep getting names of people higher, even the basic telephone agent has a 10% discretionary discount, managers have more.

This will be my next step after I get the email from the tech with more information about what they believe is wrong with it. "front element scratched" is vague.

RE LensPens: i've used them on all my lenses for years without issue. It's possible to scratch a lens with anything (cloth, lenspen, lens tissue) while cleaning, but i honestly don't suspect this is what caused the problem with the coating on my lens.

Calypso Poet

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Re: 24-70 f/2.8 L II front coating peeling off?
« Reply #34 on: February 21, 2014, 12:16:24 AM »
Had to register to say I've got the same problem with my 24-70 II lens.  I first noticed it about a month ago and was completely puzzled.  I've never had this happen with any other of the dozens of lenses I've had over the years, always cleaned them the same way (and most have been cleaned a lot more than this lens).  I have not had the lens in extreme cold, though it has been in high heat/humidity. 

Now at least I know others have had the same issue with the 24-70 II.  After reading this thread, I feel pretty confident this is not user error.   It's likely a manufacturing defect, probably/hopefully limited to a small batch. 

My lens was ordered in March of 2013, so it's coming up on a year old.   I hate to send it back now because I really need it over the next two months.  But I may not have a choice.  And if I get a $500+ bill, I'm not going to be happy.  Will keep you updated.   

Marsu42

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Re: 24-70 f/2.8 L II front coating peeling off?
« Reply #35 on: February 21, 2014, 09:14:33 AM »
remembering the s***storm over the Internet after a front element in one 24-70vc dropped off...
It wasn't just one (and it was the second element), and Roger provided a good reason for its occurrence.

Two and counting :-p ... though I wish the owner a speedy replacement, no doubt it won't be a problem via cps.

Rienzphotoz

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Re: 24-70 f/2.8 L II front coating peeling off?
« Reply #36 on: February 22, 2014, 07:58:12 AM »
Without starting a holy war about "using or not using filters", I am glad that none of my lenses ever experienced anything like this, despite using them in very dusty and hot conditions ... but I always have a B+W filters for all of my lenses ... if I'm not wrong, many of the reviews I've read at TDP say that even the weather sealed lenses need a UV/clear to "complete" the weather sealing.
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Re: 24-70 f/2.8 L II front coating peeling off?
« Reply #36 on: February 22, 2014, 07:58:12 AM »

dgatwood

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Re: 24-70 f/2.8 L II front coating peeling off?
« Reply #37 on: February 23, 2014, 12:24:27 AM »

So if I'm reading this correctly, there are three people on this board with this same lens failure, one of whom got a free in-warranty repair, one of whom didn't notice it until outside the warranty period and got bent over a barrel, and one of whom hasn't sent it off yet.

Almost every electronics manufacturer in the world would have done a silent recall for this sort of failure, and would have done the repair for free, even outside the warranty period.  It's a bit scary that Canon doesn't do that.  Not doing so significantly tarnishes my opinion of Canon as a brand.

I'll remember this thread next time I'm deciding whether to buy a Canon lens or a third-party lens.  Just saying.

Marsu42

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Re: 24-70 f/2.8 L II front coating peeling off?
« Reply #38 on: February 23, 2014, 02:19:18 AM »
It's a bit scary that Canon doesn't do that.  Not doing so significantly tarnishes my opinion of Canon as a brand.

I guess Canon recons that people using such an expensive lens are either a) insured for damaged gear, b) rich and don't care anyway, c) pros with cps who will get it fixed for free no matter the warranty.

Indeed Canon (at least to my knowledge) isn't a "caring" company. They want to make profit and have a good service for cps/pros, but the rest is simply expected to pay a lot of $$$ for service or buy an upgrade once the warranty is over - see firmware policy for everything else than their flagship camera bodies... as the market leader there is no need for them to behave otherwise.

YuengLinger

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Re: 24-70 f/2.8 L II front coating peeling off?
« Reply #39 on: February 23, 2014, 06:48:44 AM »
"pros with cps who will get it fixed for free no matter the warranty."

What?  A discount--but "free"?

privatebydesign

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Re: 24-70 f/2.8 L II front coating peeling off?
« Reply #40 on: February 23, 2014, 08:55:22 AM »
Without starting a holy war about "using or not using filters", I am glad that none of my lenses ever experienced anything like this, despite using them in very dusty and hot conditions ... but I always have a B+W filters for all of my lenses ... if I'm not wrong, many of the reviews I've read at TDP say that even the weather sealed lenses need a UV/clear to "complete" the weather sealing.

If you don't want to start a holy war don't stand on a hill and proclaim things like, my god is the one god and he will look after my lens element. A coating delamination has got absolutely nothing to do with filter use or not.

As for weather sealing, you are wrong (mostly), only the 16-35 MkI and MkII, the 17-40 and the 50 f1.2 actually need a filter to complete the weather sealing (maybe another one or two), but none of the rest do. I have used my 16-35 in all weather for the past 9 years without one to no ill effects.
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privatebydesign

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Re: 24-70 f/2.8 L II front coating peeling off?
« Reply #41 on: February 23, 2014, 08:59:53 AM »
It's a bit scary that Canon doesn't do that.  Not doing so significantly tarnishes my opinion of Canon as a brand.

I guess Canon recons that people using such an expensive lens are either a) insured for damaged gear, b) rich and don't care anyway, c) pros with cps who will get it fixed for free no matter the warranty.

Indeed Canon (at least to my knowledge) isn't a "caring" company. They want to make profit and have a good service for cps/pros, but the rest is simply expected to pay a lot of $$$ for service or buy an upgrade once the warranty is over - see firmware policy for everything else than their flagship camera bodies... as the market leader there is no need for them to behave otherwise.

If you deduct the $500 annual "membership" costs then you could hardly consider it "free", besides, as YuengLinger points out, it just qualifies you for a discount most of the time, plus priority service and faster turnarounds. I no longer do the CPS thing as, for me, it isn't good value, free and discounted cost way too much.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2014, 09:11:35 AM by privatebydesign »
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Re: 24-70 f/2.8 L II front coating peeling off?
« Reply #42 on: February 23, 2014, 09:16:10 AM »
Without starting a holy war about "using or not using filters", I am glad that none of my lenses ever experienced anything like this, despite using them in very dusty and hot conditions ... but I always have a B+W filters for all of my lenses ... if I'm not wrong, many of the reviews I've read at TDP say that even the weather sealed lenses need a UV/clear to "complete" the weather sealing.

If you don't want to start a holy war don't stand on a hill and proclaim things like, my god is the one god and he will look after my lens element. A coating delamination has got absolutely nothing to do with filter use or not.
Impressive exaggerations or perhaps the mood swings are making you get carried away today! ::)

As for weather sealing, you are wrong (mostly), only the 16-35 MkI and MkII, the 17-40 and the 50 f1.2 actually need a filter to complete the weather sealing (maybe another one or two), but none of the rest do. I have used my 16-35 in all weather for the past 9 years without one to no ill effects.
I am glad your 9 year old 16-35 has served you well. The kind of environments I work in, my lenses require a filter. If you don't require one, great, no one is insisting you use one ::) ... your lens - your choice, my lens - my choice!
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Re: 24-70 f/2.8 L II front coating peeling off?
« Reply #42 on: February 23, 2014, 09:16:10 AM »

drmikeinpdx

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Re: 24-70 f/2.8 L II front coating peeling off?
« Reply #43 on: February 23, 2014, 09:24:27 AM »
I have some experience with anti-reflection coatings in the Ophthalmic (ie: eyeglasses) industry.

If anti-reflection coatings are not perfectly applied, they do indeed seem to peel off over time without the consumer doing anything wrong.  The companies that make lenses for eyeglasses have had a lot of problems with this ever since AR coatings became popular about 20 years ago.   I think this problem is pretty rare in cameras and other optical instruments, because I have never seen it, but it seems likely that a batch of front elements was not properly coated.

As far as I know, there is nothing the consumer can do to make the AR coat start peeling without doing something drastic that would damage other parts of the lens in some obvious way.  It certainly is not due to any kind of cleaning and it is not caused by scratches.  A defective coating is really easy for me to spot because I've seen hundreds, but a camera tech probably hasn't seen many.

My guess is that either the machine that applies the coating to a batch of lenses in a vacuum chamber was not operating properly or the lenses were not properly cleaned before the coating process.  No way for us to know how big a batch is or how many batches were affected.

I don't think it would be appropriate to recall every one of these lenses, since the number of lenses affected is probably small.  In my opinion, Canon should issue a warranty notice like they did for the improperly secured mirrors on the early 5D classic.  If somebody sends a lens in with a defective coating, it gets fixed for free regardless of warranty status.  This is clearly a manufacturing defect.  Technicians should be told what a defective coating looks like so that they don't blame the customer.  It is really easy to spot a defective coating, it's the one that looks like it is peeling off!

What Canon chooses to do about this will tell us a lot about their commitment to customer service.  It will either make them look good or it will make them look bad. 

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Re: 24-70 f/2.8 L II front coating peeling off?
« Reply #44 on: February 23, 2014, 09:27:54 AM »
It is my experience that when people start a comment with "I don't want to sound/start/hurt your feelings" that is exactly what they wanted to do.

Yes, the owner has the choice, your comments directly linked your belief in filter use with not having a delamination issue, I just pointed out that they are totally different issues. Kinda like saying "I forgot my SD card, that is why I ate breakfast".

Was I wrong to do that? But thanks for caring about my mood swings! WTF!
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Re: 24-70 f/2.8 L II front coating peeling off?
« Reply #44 on: February 23, 2014, 09:27:54 AM »