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Author Topic: Light Field camera - Is this a revolution?  (Read 4914 times)

kubelik

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Re: Light Field camera - Is this a revolution?
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2011, 03:25:04 PM »
I would love to have a Rebel with Lytro capabilities to take on vacation.  it would be awesome to take photos that are well composed with the right background blur ... but when you get bored or curious, to then look and see what else is in the scene that you might have missed.  especially if you're shooting urban photography or scenes of daily life, there could be wonderful moments discovered by having a camera with this sort of technology.

I hope it does well because I think it's a great idea that could be very interesting.  I don't think it replaces having an initial artistic vision of how you want an image to appear, unless you plan on spray-and-pray and then tons of hours of scrolling through the DOF-slider to see if you've caught anything good.

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Re: Light Field camera - Is this a revolution?
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2011, 03:25:04 PM »

tara

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Re: Light Field camera - Is this a revolution?
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2011, 04:16:33 PM »
Thanks to everyone for their input. Its very much appreciated. Its so nice to see opinions.
Please do add your your thoughts.

JonJT

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Re: Light Field camera - Is this a revolution?
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2011, 04:29:47 PM »
I think this could be a novel feature in a future DSLR body.  I just want to be able to continue to use my current lenses.  From the very small amount of reading that I've done, it seems that I just might be able to.  Could anyone confirm this?

archangelrichard

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Re: Light Field camera - Is this a revolution?
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2011, 07:33:16 AM »
too many people do not understand what this is and how it works. Part of that is the designer's fault - he sprew hyperbole

NO this is not a camera, per se; but the image capture portion of a computer software based imaging system.

What this does is take a very small (less than 1 MP) image on the microlens surface and each large sensor/lens divides that up into (the estimate I have heard most often is 11) microlenses each of which has a different micro-length

NO, there is no light field; that is just a hype way of explaining the number of different focuses

each focus is at F 2.0 Depth of Field so at very long lens images there are gaps in the focus at close range (areas that don't match any of the pixel/focus pairs)

The full image can only be viewed via their site (and how much do you want to bet that will go subscription) or, in theory on a Macintosh running OS X 10.6 or above and their software (and even then some things will require using their site

posting the image/grid requires linking from their site; they already have a facebook link, as all the software to display the image is proprietary on their site

since there is no single image, ever; only the grid / matrix of images you can't do any manipulation on them except at their site / what they offer

There is NO WAY to print a picture because there is no picture; just that grid / matrix

Because all the work is done by the microlenses, there is no way to have any real camera use this technology - you either get a microlens that is always at the same focus as it's neighbors for a 18 MP (for example) image or the varied microlens sheet in front of your sensor for a 1 MP grid / matrix

He also confuses the notion of having the information of the direction of light - understand that the purpose of a lens is to have only 1 direction from the front surface to the sensor thereby having the whole picture in focus (if such a thing were possible, all you would get is a colorful blur, chromatic aberration is what comes of different directions in the light / image from the lens to the sensor). It would be possible to make 3D out of this the same way hollywood does in the movies - by calculation based on where in the grid an item is in focus which would give you an idea of distance

This is vastly overhyped and some of that is outright false or misleading - what this is is a camera-toy for little high school (and pre-high school) to use for facebook; you know, the ones who post their status every two minutes; lots of music you can't stop, horrid assault-to-the-senses color scheme, and thousands of nearly identical pictures, thousands of "friends" most of whom they could not possibly have ever met

That is their market and this thing will compete with smartphones as the camera / gimmick of choice

NO this isn't a technology as much as an application of technology. NO you can't add it to any existing system of photography. NO, you really wouldn't want to (less than 1 MP?)

AprilForever

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Re: Light Field camera - Is this a revolution?
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2011, 08:59:23 AM »
No, I don't think so... the computing power required for a "real" sized image from a "real" sized sensor would be ludicrous....

Besides, I looked at their website image gallery yesterda: Dismal IQ. Very not sharp. Colors look flat. Bokeh not too good. And the arrogance of their you-can-only-process-this-through-us policy throughly rankled me!

This is a gimmilck, to be toyed with by the unwashen masses....
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Forceflow

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Re: Light Field camera - Is this a revolution?
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2011, 11:26:51 AM »
No, I don't think so... the computing power required for a "real" sized image from a "real" sized sensor would be ludicrous....

Actually Adobe implemented something like that on a modern graphics card a year back already. They were able to implement this feature by utilizing the GPUs in a PC. And the image that they used was taken on a real sized (16MP) sensor...
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ferdi

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Re: Light Field camera - Is this a revolution?
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2011, 08:53:51 PM »
Actually Adobe implemented something like that on a modern graphics card a year back already. They were able to implement this feature by utilizing the GPUs in a PC. And the image that they used was taken on a real sized (16MP) sensor...

That's right, here's a short video of the keynote:
Small | Large

If you are interested in the subject you can find more links on Todor Georgiev's website (http://www.tgeorgiev.net/), for example the excellent (although rather technical) presentation on http://nvidia.fullviewmedia.com/gtc2010/0922-c-2093.html.

No, the light field technique is not a camera by itself. Also, Adobe has a different approach than Lytro. Basically an array of lenses or microlenses splits your image into smaller ones, which are all captured in a single frame on the CCD/CMOS sensor. From the "raw" file different images can be reconstructed later by applying one or more of the rendering algorithms. Choosing the focus is just one calculation you can apply; this is probably essential because of lack of on-camera focus controls. Additional effects are choosing a different viewpoint (parallax), making a stereo/3D image, choosing depth of field, HDR, polarization, and super resolution (which means you go one step further and regard every camera lens as a microlens).

The Raytrix R11 which delivers 3mp images costs $30.000 (source: http://www.popsci.com/gadgets/article/2011-05/cameras-40000-lenses-help-salvage-blurry-images). That makes the 1mp Lytro sound like a steal at $400, but like they say themselves: "The Lytro is designed for online sharing and interaction with living pictures", so I wouldn't expect too much of their first generation cameras.

What makes me say the Lytro is a 1 megapixel camera? If you examine their website source you can find json resources with links to 1024x1024 images, e.g. http://s3.amazonaws.com/lytro-s3-prod/assets/0c0e2cd4-f927-11e0-849a-123139407c18/output.html5.image--5.98.jpg. But they could of course have been resized or cropped.

NO you can't add it to any existing system of photography. NO, you really wouldn't want to (less than 1 MP?)

Yes you can: http://www.raytrix.de/index.php/RX_en.html, but I don't think you want to (pricey, probably a permanent mod and also loss of lens interchangeability).
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Re: Light Field camera - Is this a revolution?
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2011, 08:53:51 PM »

87vr6

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Re: Light Field camera - Is this a revolution?
« Reply #22 on: October 21, 2011, 11:17:09 PM »
I just want to know if this is even a real post... Judging by the grammar and general english in the OP, I'm thinking this is spam.

bguthrie

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Re: Light Field camera - Is this a revolution?
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2011, 03:51:48 AM »
I doubt this will go far. I suspect it will bore/frustrate its users quickly.

 The audience this satisfies is looking for instant gratification. They don't want to have to log into a web site, or manipulate every photo. To make the tech sell well, it should have delivered a 5mp image that was by default fully in focus, directly from the camera. Having the option for the photo nerds to fiddle around later might get a few more users, but true photo enthusiasts will stop using it quickly; there are too many steps backwards if you have used a DSLR.

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Re: Light Field camera - Is this a revolution?
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2011, 03:51:48 AM »