April 19, 2014, 11:40:43 AM

Author Topic: 5DIII - too grainy or not?  (Read 9379 times)

jrista

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Re: 5DIII - too grainy or not?
« Reply #60 on: February 13, 2014, 02:14:10 PM »
Hey. Today I went out to try shooting in "ETTR mode". I over exposed the image below by 1 2/3 EV with center weighted metering. On the camera screen review the whole sky over the castle was blinking. When I open it in LR, first thing that I have noticed was that there is quite a big difference in the sense of over exposing. I mean there was a lot less of blinking in LR compared to camera screen review. Then I made some corrections and the result is below. Actually, the sky is quite well recovered, if I thought that every part of it was blinking on the camera screen.

Do you suggest any other kind of metering mode? Maybe evaluative metering?

I always use evaluative metering myself. It seems to be the most friendly metering mode for ETTR. The problem with any of the more center-weighted modes (which is really what all the rest are, they are all weighted to the center to one degree or another) is that they don't tell you exactly how the peripheral scene content will render when you use ETTR. When you use Evaluative, it evaluates the ENTIRE scene, and with the iFCL metering system, the camera is already doing it's best to preserve highlights.

My recommendation is to use ETTR with Evaluative only. If you use a different metering mode, then your kind of indicating that your goals are different, and that you may not really are about any part of the scene outside of the center (and the camera will react accordingly.) To preserve highlights, always use Evaluative.
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Re: 5DIII - too grainy or not?
« Reply #60 on: February 13, 2014, 02:14:10 PM »

Valvebounce

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Re: 5DIII - too grainy or not?
« Reply #61 on: February 13, 2014, 04:27:25 PM »
Hi Climber.
Nice work on the highlight recovery.
Based on the quote below, you will also soon work out whose advice is reliable, and whose advice is less reliable!
I try not to post unless I am certain, but sometimes I'm certainly wrong! ;D Hopefully never too proud to be corrected or apologise if an apology is necessary.  :-[

Cheers Graham.


What I'm trying to say is listen to the advice you get on here and make your own mind up as what works for you. You will get conflicting advice, some from people who are convinced they know best, but in the end you just make your own choice.

As you said, get out and practice, then do what works for you.
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digital paradise

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Re: 5DIII - too grainy or not?
« Reply #62 on: February 14, 2014, 11:40:02 AM »
My 5D3 at 12,800. NR using ACR


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Re: 5DIII - too grainy or not?
« Reply #63 on: February 14, 2014, 11:51:56 AM »
Forgot to say. If you are using ACR or LD using the masking slider in the sharpening tab makes a huge difference. You don't sharpen existing noise in the smooth areas as this feature just sharpens edges. I'm usually at about 80. You then apply less luminance NR so you can maintain better sharpness.

As to your skateboarding shot I really don't see anything disturbing. Maybe at 100%.

Also for output sharpening for my hobby shots I use this method. Edge sharpening as well. You can only use it in PS. Find any edge sharpening for output method.

http://www.earthboundlight.com/phototips/photoshop-really-smart-sharpening.html?search=edge+mask&bool=and

Actually I believe there is some edge sharpening going on behind the scenes when you select sharpening level and media type in LR's export page. The Pixel Genius group developed the output sharpening page for LR.             

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Re: 5DIII - too grainy or not?
« Reply #64 on: February 14, 2014, 12:21:04 PM »
Like others said, expose to the right, not for base ISO! ETTR isn't reinventing physics...
N/S ratio on Canon isn't linear, try base-1/3: iso 160, 320, 640, 1250 for less noise. by 2500 you lose the advantage, but 2500 is still less noisy than 3200.

Skulker

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Re: 5DIII - too grainy or not?
« Reply #65 on: February 15, 2014, 05:12:31 PM »
My 5D3 at 12,800. NR using ACR




Its just amazing that you can take such a shot at that ISO. We are so lucky to have cameras that can do this.

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Re: 5DIII - too grainy or not?
« Reply #66 on: February 15, 2014, 05:33:20 PM »
Its just amazing that you can take such a shot at that ISO. We are so lucky to have cameras that can do this.

Depends on the type of shot - converting to b&w usually reduces a lot of noise and eliminates the problem of missing color accuracy @high iso. This shot also is a good example of texture that is very sympathetic to high noise reduction plus (edge) sharpening - so at this export size, it probably could have been done at iso 102400 and still look the same :-)

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Re: 5DIII - too grainy or not?
« Reply #66 on: February 15, 2014, 05:33:20 PM »

Skulker

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Re: 5DIII - too grainy or not?
« Reply #67 on: February 15, 2014, 05:47:20 PM »
Its just amazing that you can take such a shot at that ISO. We are so lucky to have cameras that can do this.

Depends on the type of shot - converting to b&w usually reduces a lot of noise and eliminates the problem of missing color accuracy @high iso. This shot also is a good example of texture that is very sympathetic to high noise reduction plus (edge) sharpening - so at this export size, it probably could have been done at iso 102400 and still look the same :-)

Even from your point of view your talking about ISO102400. Lets just assume you are correct and that it depend on the type of shot. Its not so long ago, well within my photographic experience, that ISO 800 was considered high. Now someone can come along and try to prove how clever they are by splitting hairs and saying say something like "well you could push ISO800 film" but whatever spin anyone puts on it from my point of view ISO102400 is just as amazing as ISO12800.

We are lucky to have such equipment.

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Re: 5DIII - too grainy or not?
« Reply #68 on: February 16, 2014, 06:05:22 AM »
Hey. Today I went out to try shooting in "ETTR mode". I over exposed the image below by 1 2/3 EV with center weighted metering. On the camera screen review the whole sky over the castle was blinking. When I open it in LR, first thing that I have noticed was that there is quite a big difference in the sense of over exposing. I mean there was a lot less of blinking in LR compared to camera screen review. Then I made some corrections and the result is below. Actually, the sky is quite well recovered, if I thought that every part of it was blinking on the camera screen.

Do you suggest any other kind of metering mode? Maybe evaluative metering?

This shot and your treatment of it shows you have come a long way since the skater shot. If I may be so bold as to judge, no offence intended.  ;D

A skilled and talented photographer once told me to pick an exposure mode and to stick to it. Meaning you would get to know the algorithms and how much to compensate to achieve the effect you are after. However I don't follow his advice. I find for me sometimes evaluative is best and other times center weighted is best. What I'm trying to say is listen to the advice you get on here and make your own mind up as what works for you. You will get conflicting advice, some from people who are convinced they know best, but in the end you just make your own choice.

As you said, get out and practice, then do what works for you.

you friend gave good advice personally I stick to spot metering but that because i like it and i meter for what i want and base the exposure on that but everyone is different and thats why really you are best trying out peoples advice here and trying out the different options. then pretty soon you will work out what you prefer and stick with that then you will just eventually know which setttings are right after some experience.
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Re: 5DIII - too grainy or not?
« Reply #69 on: February 17, 2014, 08:51:08 PM »

eyeland

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Re: 5DIII - too grainy or not?
« Reply #70 on: February 18, 2014, 06:57:36 AM »
In regards to Metering, seeing as the 5D owners don't enjoy the benefit of spot-metering linked to AF point, I guess we're better off with evaluative either way (unless of course you only use the center)
I would love to have the option of linking the spot meter to my AF tracking for certain action situations but you can't have it all :)
The action stuff I do is mostly dance and acrobatics, where I often have to deal with a completely black background + very strong light on a single subject. Sometimes when they move around in the frame in an unexpected manner, the meter seems rather unreliable :)

On another matter, I have a hard time finding definitive info on the digitally pushed ISO on the 5Dmk3 (probably just my internet search skills that are lacking) What is the highest non-digitally pushed ISO on the 5Dmk3 ?
« Last Edit: February 18, 2014, 07:02:23 AM by eyeland »
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privatebydesign

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Re: 5DIII - too grainy or not?
« Reply #71 on: February 18, 2014, 08:07:34 AM »
In regards to Metering, seeing as the 5D owners don't enjoy the benefit of spot-metering linked to AF point, I guess we're better off with evaluative either way (unless of course you only use the center)
I would love to have the option of linking the spot meter to my AF tracking for certain action situations but you can't have it all :)
The action stuff I do is mostly dance and acrobatics, where I often have to deal with a completely black background + very strong light on a single subject. Sometimes when they move around in the frame in an unexpected manner, the meter seems rather unreliable :)

On another matter, I have a hard time finding definitive info on the digitally pushed ISO on the 5Dmk3 (probably just my internet search skills that are lacking) What is the highest non-digitally pushed ISO on the 5Dmk3 ?

That is what M Mode is for.
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eyeland

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Re: 5DIII - too grainy or not?
« Reply #72 on: February 19, 2014, 07:30:36 AM »
That is what M Mode is for.

?
Not sure I understand what you mean..
I do dance and acrobatic performances where subjects move quickly and light changes often.
Obviously, I use M and/or TV mode seeing as I need a specific Shutterspeed for freezing action.
I also use auto ISO for the parts where the light changes alot as I would otherwise miss many more shots.
The use of TV is handy because the 5D doesn't support EC in M mode which makes it harder to expose to the right in M mode with auto ISO.
On that note, I just discovered a magic lantern module from Marsu that implements an EC-AutoIso-M mode :D
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8688.0
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Re: 5DIII - too grainy or not?
« Reply #72 on: February 19, 2014, 07:30:36 AM »

mkabi

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Re: 5DIII - too grainy or not?
« Reply #73 on: February 19, 2014, 09:49:18 AM »
A Canon professional trainer told me, that the 7D has best performing iso - 160 for normal, or multiplicated by 160 (320,...). @ this ISO steps the picture quality will be best.


That's an urban legend, the guy is professional because he's getting paid to tell you things, not because he has an insight like the Magic Lantern devs :-) ... if you want max. quality, shoot iso 100.

ISO 160x in the in the low regions up to 640 add a *tiny* bit more dynamic range, but of course lose a bit shutter speed vs. the next full iso stop ... read all about it here: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=9867.0


Just to add to this... you dont' have to be a professional to know things... you can judge for yourself too.
Here is a video on lower noise at 160-320-640:
Canon EOS 7D ISO noise test Small | Large

Then again, thats just a video for the 7D at factory settings, I'm sure the 5D Mark III is better... plus Magic Lantern with dual ISO can make it even better.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 09:59:15 AM by mkabi »
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Grumbaki

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Re: 5DIII - too grainy or not?
« Reply #74 on: February 20, 2014, 12:49:28 AM »
That is what M Mode is for.

?
Not sure I understand what you mean..
I do dance and acrobatic performances where subjects move quickly and light changes often.
Obviously, I use M and/or TV mode seeing as I need a specific Shutterspeed for freezing action.
I also use auto ISO for the parts where the light changes alot as I would otherwise miss many more shots.
The use of TV is handy because the 5D doesn't support EC in M mode which makes it harder to expose to the right in M mode with auto ISO.
On that note, I just discovered a magic lantern module from Marsu that implements an EC-AutoIso-M mode :D
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8688.0


The problem in that case is that you're running auto iso. Fixed iso, full M (of course not focus :) ) Spot Meter (so at centrer), expose then compose and focus with any point. In your kind of case you can expose the dancer and it's all fine and dandy, except in case of very violent light changes.

Auto is evil.

At least that the way I roll.

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Re: 5DIII - too grainy or not?
« Reply #74 on: February 20, 2014, 12:49:28 AM »