July 26, 2014, 05:29:59 AM

Author Topic: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?  (Read 27470 times)

Tugela

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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #405 on: February 28, 2014, 03:09:09 PM »
4K video is now featuring on SmartPhones:
- Sony Xperia Z2 brings 4K video to its flagship smartphone
http://connect.dpreview.com/post/4506883679/sony-xperia-z2-records-4k-video
- Samsung Galaxy S5 adds 16MP camera with 4K video
http://connect.dpreview.com/post/7372383200/samsung-galaxy-s5-features16mp-and-4k-video

Will the 7D Mark II be the first "normal" DSLR with 4k video??


I think Sony and Samsung have every reason to put 4K in their phones, given that they have 4K televisions to sell as well. Its an incentive, buy one and get the other one because its compatible with each other. I can see the advertisements now: Don't have enough 4K content yet? Thats fine, make your own 4K content with our phones. Then buy our TVs to view your 4K content.

In my opinion, get yourself a GoPro 3+ black edition... borrow one... buy one, use it for a week or 2 and return it.
Test it out... Record 4K and see what you can actually do with it. I know its not exactly 4K at the desired frame rates that you want... but you will see how limited you are with it.
Just do it... it will explain every thing I was saying up till now.


Well, I shoot video and I don't use a cell phone to do it. Trust me, 4K will be a big improvement over what we have now.

Remember, even if you are delivering in 2K, having your source footage in 4K is a significant advantage in many ways.


This is very true, for sure. However it also kind of assumes you know why it is an advantage, and that you have the post-processing software to take advantage of it. I still don't see this as a reason for Canon to put 4k in all of their DSLRs with upcoming releases. It might be grounds for them to release firmware updates for the 1D X and 5D III to support 24fps 4k, though.


Well, I would assume that anyone who buys an expensive high end camera intends to use it creatively, and not just point and shoot. If you just wanted to point and shoot without doing much else, there are much cheaper options available that will perform that job perfectly well.

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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #405 on: February 28, 2014, 03:09:09 PM »

mkabi

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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #406 on: February 28, 2014, 05:59:01 PM »
4K video is now featuring on SmartPhones:
- Sony Xperia Z2 brings 4K video to its flagship smartphone
http://connect.dpreview.com/post/4506883679/sony-xperia-z2-records-4k-video
- Samsung Galaxy S5 adds 16MP camera with 4K video
http://connect.dpreview.com/post/7372383200/samsung-galaxy-s5-features16mp-and-4k-video

Will the 7D Mark II be the first "normal" DSLR with 4k video??


I think Sony and Samsung have every reason to put 4K in their phones, given that they have 4K televisions to sell as well. Its an incentive, buy one and get the other one because its compatible with each other. I can see the advertisements now: Don't have enough 4K content yet? Thats fine, make your own 4K content with our phones. Then buy our TVs to view your 4K content.

In my opinion, get yourself a GoPro 3+ black edition... borrow one... buy one, use it for a week or 2 and return it.
Test it out... Record 4K and see what you can actually do with it. I know its not exactly 4K at the desired frame rates that you want... but you will see how limited you are with it.
Just do it... it will explain every thing I was saying up till now.


Well, I shoot video and I don't use a cell phone to do it. Trust me, 4K will be a big improvement over what we have now.

Remember, even if you are delivering in 2K, having your source footage in 4K is a significant advantage in many ways.


I'm sure you've shot video, as have I...
I'm not talking about 1080p, out of experience...I have personally shot 4K before... I have shot on a Red Epic and on the GoPro...

As far as affordability, if you are looking for affordability.... you have to look at upgrading your computer and everything else as well... so yeah... if you want a camera to shoot 4K @ $2000... you might get it... but everything else... you need to spend money to upgrade that as well.

Ok... let me throw the numbers out there. In terms of wedding... if thats what you're planning to shoot... I know if you're shooting with a DSLR at present, at minimum with 3 different angles or 3 DSLRs can yield 320Gb to 500Gb for an 8 hour shoot. I can't imagine what 4K will push... double, may be even quadruple that?

On the GoPro 3+ Black Edition, even @ 14fps - 4K fills a 32Gb card in a minute or less. 

The 1 time I used a Red Epic, it was for a 5min music video, with multiple reshoots, easily took 640Gb.
I had to use Red's software, downgrade it to work with it (in which case, no point in naming the strengths of working with 4K) and still it used a lot of my resources.

In my opinion, 4K at present is great for shorts, commercials, music videos and corporate videos.
Anything else, and you're just dreaming.... Unless, you can afford it.
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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #407 on: February 28, 2014, 09:11:46 PM »
I hope so! Just got the new Dell 24" UHD display and checked out some 4k videos clips. Whoa!!!! Out of this world! So awesome!

And yes that means all those downers who insist that 4k is just marketing nonsense hype unless you run 90" or larger HAVE LESS THAN ZERO CLUE. The difference is perfectly clear on my 24" monitor between 1080p and UHD video and it can be striking at times!

(And of course UHD is AWESOME for photos! They look so much more natural, like giant project slides or something without all the digital artifacts and pixels and such type look on 1200p or lower displays and the extra details really make things look so much more realistic.)

(Oh and text! Man the web looks SOOO much better since all the text now looks like a printed page!)

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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #408 on: February 28, 2014, 09:30:43 PM »
I hope so! Just got the new Dell 24" UHD display and checked out some 4k videos clips. Whoa!!!! Out of this world! So awesome!

And yes that means all those downers who insist that 4k is just marketing nonsense hype unless you run 90" or larger HAVE LESS THAN ZERO CLUE. The difference is perfectly clear on my 24" monitor between 1080p and UHD video and it can be striking at times!

(And of course UHD is AWESOME for photos! They look so much more natural, like giant project slides or something without all the digital artifacts and pixels and such type look on 1200p or lower displays and the extra details really make things look so much more realistic.)

(Oh and text! Man the web looks SOOO much better since all the text now looks like a printed page!)

The 90" size is for TVs, not computer screens. And the best size for a TV really depends on how far your couch is from the screen. There certainly is no requirement that you have an 80" or larger screen, and in some cases a 46" or 50" screen may be a lot better for your setup. Regardless, the point is to double the pixel density at whatever your viewing distance is. If you currently sit 12 feet from your 60" 1080p TV, then getting a 60" UHD TV would be absolutely incredible!

As far as a Dell 24" UHD goes, I would be willing to bet it is no more than three feet from your face, and likely closer than that. ;)
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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #409 on: March 01, 2014, 03:14:53 AM »
I hope so! Just got the new Dell 24" UHD display and checked out some 4k videos clips. Whoa!!!! Out of this world! So awesome!

And yes that means all those downers who insist that 4k is just marketing nonsense hype unless you run 90" or larger HAVE LESS THAN ZERO CLUE. The difference is perfectly clear on my 24" monitor between 1080p and UHD video and it can be striking at times!

(And of course UHD is AWESOME for photos! They look so much more natural, like giant project slides or something without all the digital artifacts and pixels and such type look on 1200p or lower displays and the extra details really make things look so much more realistic.)

(Oh and text! Man the web looks SOOO much better since all the text now looks like a printed page!)

lol!!

Tugela

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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #410 on: March 01, 2014, 06:08:02 AM »
I hope so! Just got the new Dell 24" UHD display and checked out some 4k videos clips. Whoa!!!! Out of this world! So awesome!

And yes that means all those downers who insist that 4k is just marketing nonsense hype unless you run 90" or larger HAVE LESS THAN ZERO CLUE. The difference is perfectly clear on my 24" monitor between 1080p and UHD video and it can be striking at times!

(And of course UHD is AWESOME for photos! They look so much more natural, like giant project slides or something without all the digital artifacts and pixels and such type look on 1200p or lower displays and the extra details really make things look so much more realistic.)

(Oh and text! Man the web looks SOOO much better since all the text now looks like a printed page!)

The 90" size is for TVs, not computer screens. And the best size for a TV really depends on how far your couch is from the screen. There certainly is no requirement that you have an 80" or larger screen, and in some cases a 46" or 50" screen may be a lot better for your setup. Regardless, the point is to double the pixel density at whatever your viewing distance is. If you currently sit 12 feet from your 60" 1080p TV, then getting a 60" UHD TV would be absolutely incredible!

As far as a Dell 24" UHD goes, I would be willing to bet it is no more than three feet from your face, and likely closer than that. ;)

You don't need a 90" TV to see the difference, it will be obvious even on a 40" TV at normal viewing distance. Especially in any sort of scene with large amounts of small detail, such as vegetation. The limitations of current 1080p footage is quite clear on a 40" screen.

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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #411 on: March 01, 2014, 07:55:22 AM »
I hope so! Just got the new Dell 24" UHD display and checked out some 4k videos clips. Whoa!!!! Out of this world! So awesome!

And yes that means all those downers who insist that 4k is just marketing nonsense hype unless you run 90" or larger HAVE LESS THAN ZERO CLUE. The difference is perfectly clear on my 24" monitor between 1080p and UHD video and it can be striking at times!

(And of course UHD is AWESOME for photos! They look so much more natural, like giant project slides or something without all the digital artifacts and pixels and such type look on 1200p or lower displays and the extra details really make things look so much more realistic.)

(Oh and text! Man the web looks SOOO much better since all the text now looks like a printed page!)

The 90" size is for TVs, not computer screens. And the best size for a TV really depends on how far your couch is from the screen. There certainly is no requirement that you have an 80" or larger screen, and in some cases a 46" or 50" screen may be a lot better for your setup. Regardless, the point is to double the pixel density at whatever your viewing distance is. If you currently sit 12 feet from your 60" 1080p TV, then getting a 60" UHD TV would be absolutely incredible!

As far as a Dell 24" UHD goes, I would be willing to bet it is no more than three feet from your face, and likely closer than that. ;)

You don't need a 90" TV to see the difference, it will be obvious even on a 40" TV at normal viewing distance. Especially in any sort of scene with large amounts of small detail, such as vegetation. The limitations of current 1080p footage is quite clear on a 40" screen.
I was at BestBuy yesterday with a friend (laptop shopping).... I wandered through the TV section and was looking at the 4K Tvs. With a 50 inch set, the difference between 4K and 2K was certainly noticeable. According to the sales person, 3D tevivisions do not sell as well as 4K, but 2K is still the big seller.
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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #411 on: March 01, 2014, 07:55:22 AM »

Tugela

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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #412 on: March 02, 2014, 07:09:31 PM »
I hope so! Just got the new Dell 24" UHD display and checked out some 4k videos clips. Whoa!!!! Out of this world! So awesome!

And yes that means all those downers who insist that 4k is just marketing nonsense hype unless you run 90" or larger HAVE LESS THAN ZERO CLUE. The difference is perfectly clear on my 24" monitor between 1080p and UHD video and it can be striking at times!

(And of course UHD is AWESOME for photos! They look so much more natural, like giant project slides or something without all the digital artifacts and pixels and such type look on 1200p or lower displays and the extra details really make things look so much more realistic.)

(Oh and text! Man the web looks SOOO much better since all the text now looks like a printed page!)

The 90" size is for TVs, not computer screens. And the best size for a TV really depends on how far your couch is from the screen. There certainly is no requirement that you have an 80" or larger screen, and in some cases a 46" or 50" screen may be a lot better for your setup. Regardless, the point is to double the pixel density at whatever your viewing distance is. If you currently sit 12 feet from your 60" 1080p TV, then getting a 60" UHD TV would be absolutely incredible!

As far as a Dell 24" UHD goes, I would be willing to bet it is no more than three feet from your face, and likely closer than that. ;)

You don't need a 90" TV to see the difference, it will be obvious even on a 40" TV at normal viewing distance. Especially in any sort of scene with large amounts of small detail, such as vegetation. The limitations of current 1080p footage is quite clear on a 40" screen.
I was at BestBuy yesterday with a friend (laptop shopping).... I wandered through the TV section and was looking at the 4K Tvs. With a 50 inch set, the difference between 4K and 2K was certainly noticeable. According to the sales person, 3D tevivisions do not sell as well as 4K, but 2K is still the big seller.

But, among the 4K TV buyers, 4K video will be absolutely important. You, know, the high end high margin customers that make manufacturers bucket loads of profit margins.

And, in any case, todays high end 4K will be tomorrows standard fare, while 2K will go the way of 720p. When 2K sets first appeared at the high end, people said the exact same thing, that you can't tell the difference. Well, you CAN tell the difference, and how many 720p sets are on the market now? Very few, all at the absolute low end non name brand junk market.

Some people seem to think that profit is unimportant to manufacturers. I disagree.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2014, 07:12:49 PM by Tugela »

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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #413 on: March 10, 2014, 11:11:24 AM »
Did all the big believers in this thread put in their preorders this morning?

Panasonic is going to need every last supporter they can get if they are going to impact the market and subsequently Canon if this move is going to be as significant as you guys think it is.

Sella - Since you've saved up all that money throughout the years, claim to be ready to jump into 4k and are willing to buy everything else to go with it, I look forward to seeing some of your 4k work very soon.

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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #414 on: March 10, 2014, 12:49:57 PM »
In regards to the 4K TV's you will definitely notice a difference between 4K and 1080P (HD).  I bought a Samsung 55" 9000 series a month ago and the details, clarity and color rendering is insane.  Know that the models you see in the stores are running a 4K demo from Samsung to promote the capabilities of the TV, at home viewing will be of slightly lesser quality but still stunning. 

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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #415 on: March 13, 2014, 06:27:40 AM »
In regards to the 4K TV's you will definitely notice a difference between 4K and 1080P (HD).  I bought a Samsung 55" 9000 series a month ago and the details, clarity and color rendering is insane.  Know that the models you see in the stores are running a 4K demo from Samsung to promote the capabilities of the TV, at home viewing will be of slightly lesser quality but still stunning.

The Samsung store demo material I've seen, is sped up time lapse photography turned into video.  Not sure if it was shot with a cinema camera, or if it's from a bunch of stills done with a DSLR.  Probably a cinema camera.

A year from now prices will be even lower for your tv, like probably 60% lower.  I'll probably get one then, maybe the 65 inch.

mkabi

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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #416 on: March 23, 2014, 10:43:41 AM »
Forget 4K...
Sorry this is off brand, but hey... it has EF mount options:
http://news.doddleme.com/equipment/kinefinity-announces-6k-kinemax-camera/

« Last Edit: March 23, 2014, 10:55:47 AM by mkabi »
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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #417 on: March 23, 2014, 11:26:07 AM »
Forget 4K...
Sorry this is off brand, but hey... it has EF mount options:
http://news.doddleme.com/equipment/kinefinity-announces-6k-kinemax-camera/


That's good to see. I've read that one of the biggest uses for 4K recording in the movie industry right now is... cropping (the ability to shoot too wide and pick your framing later), and slightly higher image quality at 2K resolution.

Meaning if people are actually going to produce 4K native movies they're probably going to want something higher than 4K to record with.
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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #417 on: March 23, 2014, 11:26:07 AM »

jrista

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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #418 on: March 23, 2014, 07:25:16 PM »
Forget 4K...
Sorry this is off brand, but hey... it has EF mount options:
http://news.doddleme.com/equipment/kinefinity-announces-6k-kinemax-camera/


That's good to see. I've read that one of the biggest uses for 4K recording in the movie industry right now is... cropping (the ability to shoot too wide and pick your framing later), and slightly higher image quality at 2K resolution.

Meaning if people are actually going to produce 4K native movies they're probably going to want something higher than 4K to record with.


This is indeed the case. There are a LOT of useful software features in products like Adobe Premier these days that rely on croppability. For example, you can do hand-held panning, without any kind of dolly rig to do it for you smoothly, and smooth it out during processing (if you have the room to crop). You can also do artificial image stabilization by cropping. Premier has a whole host of options for smoothing and stabilizing your video footage if you have more pixels and frame a bit looser.
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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #419 on: March 24, 2014, 01:29:32 PM »
Over sampling (4K to 2K, 8K to 4K) has many attractions in motion picture especially in VFX laden films but its not just about the sensor or camera codec. Recording data in each case is 4x larger and at 24/25fps or 48fps thats a lot of data. Playout for, grading, off-line edit, back-ups etc. needs to be faster than real-time or the system is so slow it becomes unworkable. Tera-bytes of data need to be managed & accessed by a number of parties seemlessly in the movie / TV world adding to data storage costs as redundancy needs to be built-in, films are still generally editted 2K and for good reason.

As the data increases its arguable whether it still needs to be recorded in raw or whether RGB in Rec 2020 should be used which was designed to cover 4K & 8K as Rec 709 was designed for 1080 / 2K HD. This also complies with ASC-11 the MXF wrapper for various file formats generated in-camera including raw & RGB. For movies RGB is straight forwards for adoption into DPX files and H.265 HEVC for video streaming is compiled with.

 
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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #419 on: March 24, 2014, 01:29:32 PM »