July 31, 2014, 11:57:36 AM

Author Topic: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?  (Read 27864 times)

jrista

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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #285 on: February 19, 2014, 01:20:47 PM »
lets have a look at a video from guys who actually shot video.

enough boring talk from guys in this tread who know not much about video but talk like they have invented photography and videography.

just for a change...

http://www.canonwatch.com/moving-portraits-fashion-industrys-famous-people-shot-4k-canon-eos-c500/


As far as my own perspective goes, I am not arguing with you about the utility of 4k nor am I arguing with you about the fact that it will absolutely be the standard at some point.

My main issue is with people who think that it is something Canon SHOULD or will be doing very soon based on the fact that the GH4 is out. It is NOT the standard for the market as a whole currently.

Furthermore, the GH4 is in a price range that would require Canon put 4k in their consumer lines in order to compete directly (right now). THAT, is not something I believe will happen (right now) and is truly the only point I have been trying to convey.

If we are not talking about Canon being forced to compete directly, then the issue is moot as they already offer 4k in their lineup.


+1. Totally agree. This has been the argument all along, that the notion Canon would "have" to respond to the GH4 is wrong. Canon will make 4k a standard feature when 4k is a standard feature in general.


Well Panasonic has effectively introduced 4k as the standard HD video on their digital cameras.

Given that, I'd expect Olympus to follow suit. Not sure about Sony or Nikon. But within the year, I expect 4k to be a tick-box feature that is standard across new digital cameras above $1000. Well all except Canon of course because nobody with a Canon DSLR wants 4k video. *shrug*


Your missing the point. When I say "a standard feature in general", I really mean "IN GENERAL". As in, the general public will be fully aware of 4k, will understand, at least to a basic level, what 4k is, have 4k TVs, and will generally want to shoot their home videos of their doggies and babies in 4k.

Just because Panasonic has made 4k "standard" on THEIR products does not mean that 4k is a general consumer technology. It isn't. It won't be for a while. When it is, then Canon will be there with 4k video in all their latest DSLRs and mirrorless cameras. That probably won't be for another four to five years yet, though.
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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #285 on: February 19, 2014, 01:20:47 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #286 on: February 19, 2014, 01:27:08 PM »
Your missing the point. When I say "a standard feature in general", I really mean "IN GENERAL". As in, the general public will be fully aware of 4k, will understand, at least to a basic level, what 4k is, have 4k TVs, and will generally want to shoot their home videos of their doggies and babies in 4k.

Just because Panasonic has made 4k "standard" on THEIR products does not mean that 4k is a general consumer technology. It isn't. It won't be for a while. When it is, then Canon will be there with 4k video in all their latest DSLRs and mirrorless cameras. That probably won't be for another four to five years yet, though.

Reportedly the Samsung Galaxy S5 will record 4K video. 
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jrista

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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #287 on: February 19, 2014, 01:34:28 PM »
Your missing the point. When I say "a standard feature in general", I really mean "IN GENERAL". As in, the general public will be fully aware of 4k, will understand, at least to a basic level, what 4k is, have 4k TVs, and will generally want to shoot their home videos of their doggies and babies in 4k.

Just because Panasonic has made 4k "standard" on THEIR products does not mean that 4k is a general consumer technology. It isn't. It won't be for a while. When it is, then Canon will be there with 4k video in all their latest DSLRs and mirrorless cameras. That probably won't be for another four to five years yet, though.

Reportedly the Samsung Galaxy S5 will record 4K video.

Sure. But where are the 4k computer screens and 4k TVs that people need to view those videos on? The technology has to be mainstream for people to really want it. Until that point, it's just a feature, a sales gimmick (especially in something like the Galaxy S5!!)
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Don Haines

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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #288 on: February 19, 2014, 01:36:48 PM »
Your missing the point. When I say "a standard feature in general", I really mean "IN GENERAL". As in, the general public will be fully aware of 4k, will understand, at least to a basic level, what 4k is, have 4k TVs, and will generally want to shoot their home videos of their doggies and babies in 4k.

Just because Panasonic has made 4k "standard" on THEIR products does not mean that 4k is a general consumer technology. It isn't. It won't be for a while. When it is, then Canon will be there with 4k video in all their latest DSLRs and mirrorless cameras. That probably won't be for another four to five years yet, though.

agreed, except for the timeframe.... I'd be more inclined to say in the next 2 or 3 years... possibly sooner on a p/s.

Canon already has 4K video with decent frame rates in the cinema line. They could probably give DSLRs and P/S 4K video now at an absurdly slow frame rate (a la GoPro) but knowing Canon, you won't see it until they can do it right, and that means at least 30fps and not compressed to death.... and that means faster storage is needed first.

I wonder what the holdup is with the 7DII.... somehow, I doubt it is the sensor as they have no problems producing the 70D sensor... I am hoping the delay is problems integrating cFast storage but quite frankly, the 7DII seems to early for cFast... possibly the next updated body after that will have it... perhaps a 5D4 or a 1DX2 in late 2015 or 2016.. I really can't see it hapenning before that.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 01:39:32 PM by Don Haines »
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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #289 on: February 19, 2014, 01:38:29 PM »
Your missing the point. When I say "a standard feature in general", I really mean "IN GENERAL". As in, the general public will be fully aware of 4k, will understand, at least to a basic level, what 4k is, have 4k TVs, and will generally want to shoot their home videos of their doggies and babies in 4k.

Just because Panasonic has made 4k "standard" on THEIR products does not mean that 4k is a general consumer technology. It isn't. It won't be for a while. When it is, then Canon will be there with 4k video in all their latest DSLRs and mirrorless cameras. That probably won't be for another four to five years yet, though.

Reportedly the Samsung Galaxy S5 will record 4K video.

Sure. But where are the 4k computer screens and 4k TVs that people need to view those videos on? The technology has to be mainstream for people to really want it. Until that point, it's just a feature, a sales gimmick (especially in something like the Galaxy S5!!)
or the next iPad... with a 4K display :)
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neuroanatomist

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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #290 on: February 19, 2014, 01:39:38 PM »
Sure. But where are the 4k computer screens and 4k TVs that people need to view those videos on? The technology has to be mainstream for people to really want it. Until that point, it's just a feature, a sales gimmick (especially in something like the Galaxy S5!!)

Still you keep throwing up logical arguments, and refuse to drink the KoolAid of 4K video.  Are you a Luddite?   ;) ::) :P ;D
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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #291 on: February 19, 2014, 01:40:53 PM »
But where are the 4k computer screens and 4k TVs that people need to view those videos on?


In the shops would be my guess ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4K_resolution#List_of_4K_monitors.2C_TVs_and_projectors ...  :D
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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #291 on: February 19, 2014, 01:40:53 PM »

jrista

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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #292 on: February 19, 2014, 01:46:13 PM »
But where are the 4k computer screens and 4k TVs that people need to view those videos on?


In the shops would be my guess ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4K_resolution#List_of_4K_monitors.2C_TVs_and_projectors ...  :D


LOL!

Sure, at $40,000 a TV and $3000 a computer screen. That isn't consumer-level pricing. When TV's get down to $2000 and screens get down to $200, then were talking broad consumer consumption. We aren't even close to that yet.
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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #293 on: February 19, 2014, 01:52:10 PM »
Sure, at $40,000 a TV and $3000 a computer screen. That isn't consumer-level pricing. When TV's get down to $2000 and screens get down to $200, then were talking broad consumer consumption. We aren't even close to that yet.

Ah, yes, the conservative model of business ... follow the wave.
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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #294 on: February 19, 2014, 02:14:35 PM »
Sure, at $40,000 a TV and $3000 a computer screen. That isn't consumer-level pricing. When TV's get down to $2000 and screens get down to $200, then were talking broad consumer consumption. We aren't even close to that yet.

Ah, yes, the conservative model of business ... follow the wave.

There were a couple of monitors and a couple of tv's on the Wikipedia list for $800........ I'll bet my local BestBuy has sub $2000 tv's this year, but I don't think we will be seeing any $200 monitors.
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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #295 on: February 19, 2014, 03:22:49 PM »
This chicken-and-egg scenario of 4K content creation versus 4K display reminds me of when 64-bit processors made their debut on the desktop PC stage. Everyone said, "What's the point when there's no 64-bit software to take advantage of it?"

My take on it is this:

  • Affordable 4K displays are still a long way off (a couple years?)
  • 4K content isn't really useful to most people without the corresponding displays.
  • It's only a matter of time before 4K replaces 1080P as the standard for high definition, and prices come down accordingly.
  • If I'm creating content that's meaningful to me, I'd like it to be as high of quality as possible, even if that means it's a couple of years before I can afford to see it in all its glory. :)

Edited to add: Do I care if my current/next DSLR lacks 4K video? Not a bit. :P
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 07:01:45 PM by Famateur »

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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #296 on: February 19, 2014, 10:09:07 PM »
lets have a look at a video from guys who actually shot video.

enough boring talk from guys in this tread who know not much about video but talk like they have invented photography and videography.

just for a change...

http://www.canonwatch.com/moving-portraits-fashion-industrys-famous-people-shot-4k-canon-eos-c500/


As far as my own perspective goes, I am not arguing with you about the utility of 4k nor am I arguing with you about the fact that it will absolutely be the standard at some point.

My main issue is with people who think that it is something Canon SHOULD or will be doing very soon based on the fact that the GH4 is out. It is NOT the standard for the market as a whole currently.

Furthermore, the GH4 is in a price range that would require Canon put 4k in their consumer lines in order to compete directly (right now). THAT, is not something I believe will happen (right now) and is truly the only point I have been trying to convey.

If we are not talking about Canon being forced to compete directly, then the issue is moot as they already offer 4k in their lineup.


+1. Totally agree. This has been the argument all along, that the notion Canon would "have" to respond to the GH4 is wrong. Canon will make 4k a standard feature when 4k is a standard feature in general.


Well Panasonic has effectively introduced 4k as the standard HD video on their digital cameras.

Given that, I'd expect Olympus to follow suit. Not sure about Sony or Nikon. But within the year, I expect 4k to be a tick-box feature that is standard across new digital cameras above $1000. Well all except Canon of course because nobody with a Canon DSLR wants 4k video. *shrug*


Your missing the point. When I say "a standard feature in general", I really mean "IN GENERAL". As in, the general public will be fully aware of 4k, will understand, at least to a basic level, what 4k is, have 4k TVs, and will generally want to shoot their home videos of their doggies and babies in 4k.


Ok, so you're using a different definition of "in general" than I am. I don't see the "IN GENERAL" as needing to refer to general availability to the general public in all related products.

FWIW, BluRay players and AV receivers are already offering 4K processing and up-scaling (this was news at CES in January 2013.) My BluRay player can upscale content to 4K, my AV receiver can process or upscale content for 4K. The only part of the equation that is missing is the TV screen or projector. The PS4 is 4k capable. 4k is already a tick-box item when comparing various products when shopping for AV goodies.

I don't think that Canon will have a choice to wait for general adoption of 4k. Those in video circles will go "Well, I can buy a $3000 Black Magic camera or a $10,000 Canon camera. Hard choice." The obstacle for many people with the Nikon D800 and D610 is a change of lenses is required.

If I want to shoot 4k video, I can spend $3000 on Black Magic and use my EF lenses or spend $10,000 on Canon and use my EF lenses. Heck, the Black Magic MSRP is now also cheaper than the Canon 5D Mark III MSRP. So even if you I want to shoot 1080p now and move to 4k in the future, I'd have to be crazy to buy a 35mm FF Canon DSLR. Same for anyone else going into digital video production.

Quote
Just because Panasonic has made 4k "standard" on THEIR products does not mean that 4k is a general consumer technology.


Maybe not now, but I'm tipping that it will become so quicker than I think you want to publicly admit.

Quote
It isn't. It won't be for a while. When it is, then Canon will be there with 4k video in all their latest DSLRs and mirrorless cameras. That probably won't be for another four to five years yet, though.


How do you know all this?

You say this with such certainty that it sounds like you're privy to inside information of Canon.

Or are you just making educated guesses like the rest of us?

If you are just making educated guesses (using your logic) then you might want to say that these are your opinions rather than a statement of fact.

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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #297 on: February 19, 2014, 10:22:40 PM »

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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #298 on: February 20, 2014, 12:07:10 AM »
lets have a look at a video from guys who actually shot video.

enough boring talk from guys in this tread who know not much about video but talk like they have invented photography and videography.

just for a change...

http://www.canonwatch.com/moving-portraits-fashion-industrys-famous-people-shot-4k-canon-eos-c500/


As far as my own perspective goes, I am not arguing with you about the utility of 4k nor am I arguing with you about the fact that it will absolutely be the standard at some point.

My main issue is with people who think that it is something Canon SHOULD or will be doing very soon based on the fact that the GH4 is out. It is NOT the standard for the market as a whole currently.

Furthermore, the GH4 is in a price range that would require Canon put 4k in their consumer lines in order to compete directly (right now). THAT, is not something I believe will happen (right now) and is truly the only point I have been trying to convey.

If we are not talking about Canon being forced to compete directly, then the issue is moot as they already offer 4k in their lineup.


+1. Totally agree. This has been the argument all along, that the notion Canon would "have" to respond to the GH4 is wrong. Canon will make 4k a standard feature when 4k is a standard feature in general.


Well Panasonic has effectively introduced 4k as the standard HD video on their digital cameras.

Given that, I'd expect Olympus to follow suit. Not sure about Sony or Nikon. But within the year, I expect 4k to be a tick-box feature that is standard across new digital cameras above $1000. Well all except Canon of course because nobody with a Canon DSLR wants 4k video. *shrug*


Your missing the point. When I say "a standard feature in general", I really mean "IN GENERAL". As in, the general public will be fully aware of 4k, will understand, at least to a basic level, what 4k is, have 4k TVs, and will generally want to shoot their home videos of their doggies and babies in 4k.


Ok, so you're using a different definition of "in general" than I am. I don't see the "IN GENERAL" as needing to refer to general availability to the general public in all related products.

FWIW, BluRay players and AV receivers are already offering 4K processing and up-scaling (this was news at CES in January 2013.) My BluRay player can upscale content to 4K, my AV receiver can process or upscale content for 4K. The only part of the equation that is missing is the TV screen or projector. The PS4 is 4k capable. 4k is already a tick-box item when comparing various products when shopping for AV goodies.

I don't think that Canon will have a choice to wait for general adoption of 4k. Those in video circles will go "Well, I can buy a $3000 Black Magic camera or a $10,000 Canon camera. Hard choice." The obstacle for many people with the Nikon D800 and D610 is a change of lenses is required.

If I want to shoot 4k video, I can spend $3000 on Black Magic and use my EF lenses or spend $10,000 on Canon and use my EF lenses. Heck, the Black Magic MSRP is now also cheaper than the Canon 5D Mark III MSRP. So even if you I want to shoot 1080p now and move to 4k in the future, I'd have to be crazy to buy a 35mm FF Canon DSLR. Same for anyone else going into digital video production.

Quote
Just because Panasonic has made 4k "standard" on THEIR products does not mean that 4k is a general consumer technology.


Maybe not now, but I'm tipping that it will become so quicker than I think you want to publicly admit.

Quote
It isn't. It won't be for a while. When it is, then Canon will be there with 4k video in all their latest DSLRs and mirrorless cameras. That probably won't be for another four to five years yet, though.


How do you know all this?

You say this with such certainty that it sounds like you're privy to inside information of Canon.

Or are you just making educated guesses like the rest of us?

If you are just making educated guesses (using your logic) then you might want to say that these are your opinions rather than a statement of fact.


Um, first off, PS4 isn't 4k capable. Both Microsoft and Sony have been rumored to be investigating support, but neither have 4k support yet. If 4k was as close as you say, they would have both been released with 4k OOTB.

Furthermore, 4k upscaling is not 4k. You can upscale to any resolution, but that doesn't make it actually that resolution. If 4k was just around the corner, you would have wide scale support for 4k natively in existing bluray players. The 100GB BluRay disc update would be far more widespread, and the cost would already be approaching affordable (as it stands, a single 100GB BluRay costs $45-80...yes, thats EACH.) You would have more players that support 100GB BluRay discs. You would have $500 4k TVs showing up in stores like Best Buy and Walmart.

None of these things have come to pass, which indicates that the beginning of broad 4k adoption is not just around the corner. It's a few years down the road yet. Canon releases a new Rebel and other more compact cameras every year. When the time comes for them to add 4k, they will add 4k. I don't NEED to have insider knowledge to know that. It is plain and simply logical. Canon isn't run by a bunch of idiots. They know their market. Canon makes oodles of money, and their photography division is one of their largest. They have a hell of a lot of shareholders, and they have a critical reputation to keep in the photography market, and imaging markets at large. They aren't going to screw that up. When the time comes for 4k to be in every Canon camera, it'll be in every Canon camera.

The trigger that marks "the time" for 4k...it isn't the moment Panasonic released the GH4. I would be willing to bet that on the list of competitors to worry about most, Panasonic doesn't even make the top five.
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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #299 on: February 20, 2014, 12:46:57 AM »
Reportedly the Samsung Galaxy S5 will record 4K video.


Just what we need, even higher resolution Vertical Video‚Ķ   ;)



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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #299 on: February 20, 2014, 12:46:57 AM »