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Author Topic: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?  (Read 27628 times)

Don Haines

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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #435 on: April 01, 2014, 05:45:46 PM »
Regarding Don's problem with a beat frequency in bird wings, if you have software capable of doing it, you could probably record at 60fps, then interpolate that sequence back down to 24fps for inclusion with other 24fps sequences, WITHOUT resulting in the 60fps sequences playing back as "slow motion".


That's EXACTLY what I did....

Still playing and learning.... and having lots of fun doing it.

BTW...
GooseCreek2 on Vimeo Small | Large
is what happens when you shoot geese at 30HZ....
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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #435 on: April 01, 2014, 05:45:46 PM »

jrista

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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #436 on: April 01, 2014, 05:49:01 PM »
Regarding Don's problem with a beat frequency in bird wings, if you have software capable of doing it, you could probably record at 60fps, then interpolate that sequence back down to 24fps for inclusion with other 24fps sequences, WITHOUT resulting in the 60fps sequences playing back as "slow motion".


That's EXACTLY what I did....

Still playing and learning.... and having lots of fun doing it.

BTW... GooseCreek2 on Vimeo is what happens when you shoot geese at 30HZ....


Have you tried shooting at 24fps instead of 30fps? Just curious if that would help. BTW, unless you've configured things differently, if you are shooting at 30fps, I would expect the actual shutter speed to default to 1/60th of a second. Given that, it isn't all that surprising that your getting some stutter...it's that whole timing issue (which will present regardless of whether you are playing back at 60Hz, or down interpolating your video to 30fps for playback at 30Hz). If you drop to 24fps, your shutter speed would be 1/48th of a second (by default, at least I would expect), and that offset might help avoid the stutter problem when playing back.

I'd also offer that NOT harrassing the geese while in your canoo would probably avoid wing beats entirely. ;P

Also, what do you use to process your videos? Premier?
« Last Edit: April 01, 2014, 05:56:34 PM by jrista »
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Don Haines

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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #437 on: April 01, 2014, 06:10:32 PM »
Regarding Don's problem with a beat frequency in bird wings, if you have software capable of doing it, you could probably record at 60fps, then interpolate that sequence back down to 24fps for inclusion with other 24fps sequences, WITHOUT resulting in the 60fps sequences playing back as "slow motion".


That's EXACTLY what I did....

Still playing and learning.... and having lots of fun doing it.

BTW... GooseCreek2 on Vimeo is what happens when you shoot geese at 30HZ....


Have you tried shooting at 24fps instead of 30fps? Just curious if that would help. BTW, unless you've configured things differently, if you are shooting at 30fps, I would expect the actual shutter speed to default to 1/60th of a second. Given that, it isn't all that surprising that your getting some stutter...it's that whole timing issue (which will present regardless of whether you are playing back at 60Hz, or down interpolating your video to 30fps for playback at 30Hz). If you drop to 24fps, your shutter speed would be 1/48th of a second (by default, at least I would expect), and that offset might help avoid the stutter problem when playing back.

I'd also offer that NOT harrassing the geese while in your canoo would probably avoid wing beats entirely. ;P

Also, what do you use to process your videos? Premier?


The 60D allows a shutter speed of 1/30 second when shooting 30FPS. Obviously, they cheat and it isn't really 1/30th but is close to it...

The editing software I have for video is Pinacle Studio. I do NOT recommend it.
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jrista

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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #438 on: April 01, 2014, 06:30:33 PM »
Regarding Don's problem with a beat frequency in bird wings, if you have software capable of doing it, you could probably record at 60fps, then interpolate that sequence back down to 24fps for inclusion with other 24fps sequences, WITHOUT resulting in the 60fps sequences playing back as "slow motion".


That's EXACTLY what I did....

Still playing and learning.... and having lots of fun doing it.

BTW... GooseCreek2 on Vimeo is what happens when you shoot geese at 30HZ....


Have you tried shooting at 24fps instead of 30fps? Just curious if that would help. BTW, unless you've configured things differently, if you are shooting at 30fps, I would expect the actual shutter speed to default to 1/60th of a second. Given that, it isn't all that surprising that your getting some stutter...it's that whole timing issue (which will present regardless of whether you are playing back at 60Hz, or down interpolating your video to 30fps for playback at 30Hz). If you drop to 24fps, your shutter speed would be 1/48th of a second (by default, at least I would expect), and that offset might help avoid the stutter problem when playing back.

I'd also offer that NOT harrassing the geese while in your canoo would probably avoid wing beats entirely. ;P

Also, what do you use to process your videos? Premier?


The 60D allows a shutter speed of 1/30 second when shooting 30FPS. Obviously, they cheat and it isn't really 1/30th but is close to it...

The editing software I have for video is Pinacle Studio. I do NOT recommend it.


Oh yes, I've encountered Pinacle Studio. Bleh.

I am a bit surprised that at a shutter speed of 1/30th, your getting stutter like that. Maybe it's still just a timing issue,  but I would have expected 1/30th to produce a bit more motion blur, which should smooth out the issue a bit. Of course, these are lower end DSLRs...they aren't exactly designed for video, it's more of an afterthought, and they all still have rolling shutters and the like as well. (Even the GoPro's have rolling shutter issues...a friend of mine builds and flys model airplanes, and he often sticks his gopro on the plane itself for some cool videos...but wow, the rolling shutter and stutter effects are BAAAD.)
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mkabi

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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #439 on: April 01, 2014, 09:06:16 PM »
Of course, these are lower end DSLRs...they aren't exactly designed for video, it's more of an afterthought, and they all still have rolling shutters and the like as well.


I'm not trying to hurt anyones feelings, but..

Thats a poor mans excuse for not knowing or not willing to learn how to use the current equipment he/she has... Even with an Arri... a poor man would say the same thing.

Please look at video examples posted in the video thread, especially with something like the t2i, t3i, 60D...
For example: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=19358.0

There are a few 60D and t2i video clips on the Video & Movie Section of the Forum, and they look quite professional. Please use the search option to find those videos. You can also find videos from t3i and t2i on YouTube.

Here is an example of a Music Video shot with a t2i:
Wisam Benhachem - Perfect Girl (Canon T2i Music Video) Small | Large


And, there are hundreds of examples, just like that...

Again, I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad...
So what exactly are we doing wrong?

Aside from the in camera processing bit... Don, you are obviously recording at 1080/30p with a shutter of 1/30th of a second. What lens are you using?

What do you do your editing on PC/MAC?
How come you can't choose HD on Vimeo? What resolution are you uploading it onto Vimeo?
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Don Haines

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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #440 on: April 01, 2014, 10:20:30 PM »
Of course, these are lower end DSLRs...they aren't exactly designed for video, it's more of an afterthought, and they all still have rolling shutters and the like as well.


I'm not trying to hurt anyones feelings, but..

Thats a poor mans excuse for not knowing or not willing to learn how to use the current equipment he/she has... Even with an Arri... a poor man would say the same thing.

Please look at video examples posted in the video thread, especially with something like the t2i, t3i, 60D...
For example: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=19358.0

There are a few 60D and t2i video clips on the Video & Movie Section of the Forum, and they look quite professional. Please use the search option to find those videos. You can also find videos from t3i and t2i on YouTube.

Here is an example of a Music Video shot with a t2i:
Wisam Benhachem - Perfect Girl (Canon T2i Music Video)

And, there are hundreds of examples, just like that...

Again, I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad...
So what exactly are we doing wrong?

Aside from the in camera processing bit... Don, you are obviously recording at 1080/30p with a shutter of 1/30th of a second. What lens are you using?

What do you do your editing on PC/MAC?
How come you can't choose HD on Vimeo? What resolution are you uploading it onto Vimeo?

Don't worry about hurting my feelings.... I will be the first one to say that I really don't know what I am doing with video...

I have shot a lot of far better video than the one I posted, I picked that one to show the beat frequency between the camera frame rate and the wings flapping.... it was deliberately chosen to be bad....

That said, what software do you recommend for editing movies? I have Pinnacle and it is terrible!
The best camera is the one in your hands

mkabi

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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #441 on: April 01, 2014, 10:55:24 PM »
Of course, these are lower end DSLRs...they aren't exactly designed for video, it's more of an afterthought, and they all still have rolling shutters and the like as well.


I'm not trying to hurt anyones feelings, but..

Thats a poor mans excuse for not knowing or not willing to learn how to use the current equipment he/she has... Even with an Arri... a poor man would say the same thing.

Please look at video examples posted in the video thread, especially with something like the t2i, t3i, 60D...
For example: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=19358.0

There are a few 60D and t2i video clips on the Video & Movie Section of the Forum, and they look quite professional. Please use the search option to find those videos. You can also find videos from t3i and t2i on YouTube.

Here is an example of a Music Video shot with a t2i:
Wisam Benhachem - Perfect Girl (Canon T2i Music Video)

And, there are hundreds of examples, just like that...

Again, I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad...
So what exactly are we doing wrong?

Aside from the in camera processing bit... Don, you are obviously recording at 1080/30p with a shutter of 1/30th of a second. What lens are you using?

What do you do your editing on PC/MAC?
How come you can't choose HD on Vimeo? What resolution are you uploading it onto Vimeo?

Don't worry about hurting my feelings.... I will be the first one to say that I really don't know what I am doing with video...

I have shot a lot of far better video than the one I posted, I picked that one to show the beat frequency between the camera frame rate and the wings flapping.... it was deliberately chosen to be bad....

That said, what software do you recommend for editing movies? I have Pinnacle and it is terrible!


Go with Adobe Premier...



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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #441 on: April 01, 2014, 10:55:24 PM »

jrista

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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #442 on: April 02, 2014, 05:58:42 PM »
Of course, these are lower end DSLRs...they aren't exactly designed for video, it's more of an afterthought, and they all still have rolling shutters and the like as well.


I'm not trying to hurt anyones feelings, but..

Thats a poor mans excuse for not knowing or not willing to learn how to use the current equipment he/she has... Even with an Arri... a poor man would say the same thing.

Please look at video examples posted in the video thread, especially with something like the t2i, t3i, 60D...
For example: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=19358.0

There are a few 60D and t2i video clips on the Video & Movie Section of the Forum, and they look quite professional. Please use the search option to find those videos. You can also find videos from t3i and t2i on YouTube.

Here is an example of a Music Video shot with a t2i:
Wisam Benhachem - Perfect Girl (Canon T2i Music Video)

And, there are hundreds of examples, just like that...

Again, I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad...
So what exactly are we doing wrong?

Aside from the in camera processing bit... Don, you are obviously recording at 1080/30p with a shutter of 1/30th of a second. What lens are you using?

What do you do your editing on PC/MAC?
How come you can't choose HD on Vimeo? What resolution are you uploading it onto Vimeo?


I'm not sure about you, but I see quite a bit of short stutters in the video you embedded. From an IQ standpoint, the IQ is great...but there are definitely artifacts that result from the lesser video capabilities of the DSLR used, and those are what I was referring to. It is very professional from a cinematic and photographic standpoint, for sure...but that does not eliminate the issues inherent in current low end and midrange DSLR video technology.

I've tried recording birds and wildlife. I have a whole bunch of clips in a big fat folder on my hard drive. I've messed with them quite a bit, run them through Premier and composited a variety of short little videos. I'm just not satisfied with any of them, though, because of rolling shutter issues in particular, and stutter in a few cases (usually panning). I'm no professional cinematographer by any means, for sure, I just have a critical eye. The fact that someone was able to make a music video with a T2i is pretty amazing...however to truly call it professional, personally, I'd expect the stutter and rolling shutter artifacts, as light as they are, to be gone. Especially if I am paying someone to film the thing for me.
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jrista

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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #443 on: April 02, 2014, 06:01:10 PM »
That said, what software do you recommend for editing movies? I have Pinnacle and it is terrible!

Go with Adobe Premier...

I totally agree here. Adobe Premier. It's become a VERY high quality product, very capable. It'll completely change your outlook on personal, small scale cinematography...it has so many tools to help you solve common problems, such as camera shake from hand holding, panning unevenness, zooming smoothing, etc. It's an amazing tool. If you are serious about getting into video with your DSLR, I'd even go so far as to say it's worth the $20/mo Creative Cloud fee to get (or, if you use multiple Adobe apps, then the $50/mo full CC fee.)
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CarlTN

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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #444 on: April 02, 2014, 09:53:35 PM »
Regarding Don's problem with a beat frequency in bird wings, if you have software capable of doing it, you could probably record at 60fps, then interpolate that sequence back down to 24fps for inclusion with other 24fps sequences, WITHOUT resulting in the 60fps sequences playing back as "slow motion".


That's EXACTLY what I did....

Still playing and learning.... and having lots of fun doing it.

BTW... GooseCreek2 on Vimeo is what happens when you shoot geese at 30HZ....


Have you tried shooting at 24fps instead of 30fps? Just curious if that would help. BTW, unless you've configured things differently, if you are shooting at 30fps, I would expect the actual shutter speed to default to 1/60th of a second. Given that, it isn't all that surprising that your getting some stutter...it's that whole timing issue (which will present regardless of whether you are playing back at 60Hz, or down interpolating your video to 30fps for playback at 30Hz). If you drop to 24fps, your shutter speed would be 1/48th of a second (by default, at least I would expect), and that offset might help avoid the stutter problem when playing back.

I'd also offer that NOT harrassing the geese while in your canoo would probably avoid wing beats entirely. ;P

Also, what do you use to process your videos? Premier?


The 60D allows a shutter speed of 1/30 second when shooting 30FPS. Obviously, they cheat and it isn't really 1/30th but is close to it...

The editing software I have for video is Pinacle Studio. I do NOT recommend it.


Oh yes, I've encountered Pinacle Studio. Bleh.

I am a bit surprised that at a shutter speed of 1/30th, your getting stutter like that. Maybe it's still just a timing issue,  but I would have expected 1/30th to produce a bit more motion blur, which should smooth out the issue a bit. Of course, these are lower end DSLRs...they aren't exactly designed for video, it's more of an afterthought, and they all still have rolling shutters and the like as well. (Even the GoPro's have rolling shutter issues...a friend of mine builds and flys model airplanes, and he often sticks his gopro on the plane itself for some cool videos...but wow, the rolling shutter and stutter effects are BAAAD.)


The GoPro footage I see on tv via helmet cams in Supercross racing, does not appear to have any rolling shutter issues, but maybe it is subtle...I don't know.  I thought the whole appeal of GoPro was that it didn't have rolling shutter issues, at least not when compared to similarly priced consumer level video cameras.

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Re: Will the next xD cameras do 4k?
« Reply #444 on: April 02, 2014, 09:53:35 PM »