November 28, 2014, 11:17:43 PM

Author Topic: What's Next from Canon?  (Read 32940 times)

jeffa4444

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Re: What's Next from Canon?
« Reply #210 on: March 04, 2014, 01:27:12 PM »
Gfk in December released details about the photography market that sum up a few issues. At the height of analogue (film) the companies were selling annually to a global market around 60M camereras at their peak. At the peak of digital that was 120M cameras last year overall that figure was down to around 80M. The cell phone has killed the lower end where to biggest drops occurred but in 2013 both DSLR and CSC sales declined. In Japan, some parts of Asia and in Germany & the UK CSCs do well but in North America they dont do well or much of the rest of the world. However CSCs have made great strides since 2008 and no one can say the likes of the Olympus OM-D E-M1 or the Fuji X-T1 are not great cameras they are AND they have very good lenses in somes cases as good as or better than L lenses. Then there is the Sony A7R / A7 full frame in a CSC package.
This puts Canon in a difficult position does it reinvent DSLR like Sony or does it go whole hog into CSCs which requires much greater R&D into new lenses as frankly the current offerings against Olympus are weak.
Me thinks they will focus on DSLRs first and try to bring innovation that gives them the same attention Sony is getting from the A7R which currently has a weak lens line-up compared to Canon or Nikon.

Canon are in trouble currently if they still apply tiny steps like the EOS1200 / Rebel T5 then they will lose creditability they need the next big jump.
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Re: What's Next from Canon?
« Reply #210 on: March 04, 2014, 01:27:12 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: What's Next from Canon?
« Reply #211 on: March 04, 2014, 01:43:21 PM »
Me thinks they will focus on DSLRs first and try to bring innovation that gives them the same attention Sony is getting from the A7R which currently has a weak lens line-up compared to Canon or Nikon.

Sony may be getting attention…but they don't seem to be getting sales.  Canon continues to get sales. 

Canon are in trouble currently if they still apply tiny steps like the EOS1200 / Rebel T5 then they will lose creditability they need the next big jump.

Ahhh, yes…YAPCD (yet another prediction of Canon's doom).  Thanks for that.
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Rienzphotoz

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Re: What's Next from Canon?
« Reply #212 on: March 04, 2014, 03:21:53 PM »
Gfk in December released details about the photography market that sum up a few issues. At the height of analogue (film) the companies were selling annually to a global market around 60M camereras at their peak. At the peak of digital that was 120M cameras last year overall that figure was down to around 80M. The cell phone has killed the lower end where to biggest drops occurred but in 2013 both DSLR and CSC sales declined. In Japan, some parts of Asia and in Germany & the UK CSCs do well but in North America they dont do well or much of the rest of the world. However CSCs have made great strides since 2008 and no one can say the likes of the Olympus OM-D E-M1 or the Fuji X-T1 are not great cameras they are AND they have very good lenses in somes cases as good as or better than L lenses. Then there is the Sony A7R / A7 full frame in a CSC package.
This puts Canon in a difficult position does it reinvent DSLR like Sony or does it go whole hog into CSCs which requires much greater R&D into new lenses as frankly the current offerings against Olympus are weak.
Me thinks they will focus on DSLRs first and try to bring innovation that gives them the same attention Sony is getting from the A7R which currently has a weak lens line-up compared to Canon or Nikon.

Canon are in trouble currently if they still apply tiny steps like the EOS1200 / Rebel T5 then they will lose creditability they need the next big jump.
It does not look like you have used or own the Sony a7/R ... as nice as it is, it is no match for Canon DSLRs ... the only advantage  of Sony a7/R (over full frame DSLRs) is its compact/light size ... for everything else the Canon DSLRs are superior in every way.
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wickidwombat

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Re: What's Next from Canon?
« Reply #213 on: March 04, 2014, 07:05:41 PM »
Gfk in December released details about the photography market that sum up a few issues. At the height of analogue (film) the companies were selling annually to a global market around 60M camereras at their peak. At the peak of digital that was 120M cameras last year overall that figure was down to around 80M. The cell phone has killed the lower end where to biggest drops occurred but in 2013 both DSLR and CSC sales declined. In Japan, some parts of Asia and in Germany & the UK CSCs do well but in North America they dont do well or much of the rest of the world. However CSCs have made great strides since 2008 and no one can say the likes of the Olympus OM-D E-M1 or the Fuji X-T1 are not great cameras they are AND they have very good lenses in somes cases as good as or better than L lenses. Then there is the Sony A7R / A7 full frame in a CSC package.
This puts Canon in a difficult position does it reinvent DSLR like Sony or does it go whole hog into CSCs which requires much greater R&D into new lenses as frankly the current offerings against Olympus are weak.
Me thinks they will focus on DSLRs first and try to bring innovation that gives them the same attention Sony is getting from the A7R which currently has a weak lens line-up compared to Canon or Nikon.

Canon are in trouble currently if they still apply tiny steps like the EOS1200 / Rebel T5 then they will lose creditability they need the next big jump.
It does not look like you have used or own the Sony a7/R ... as nice as it is, it is no match for Canon DSLRs ... the only advantage  of Sony a7/R (over full frame DSLRs) is its compact/light size ... for everything else the Canon DSLRs are superior in every way.

dagnabit you forgots abouts the dynamic range!!!!  :o
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jeffa4444

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Re: What's Next from Canon?
« Reply #214 on: March 04, 2014, 07:08:50 PM »
t does not look like you have used or own the Sony a7/R ... as nice as it is, it is no match for Canon DSLRs ... the only advantage  of Sony a7/R (over full frame DSLRs) is its compact/light size ... for everything else the Canon DSLRs are superior in every way.

The sensors Sony is using is the same sensor Nikon is using in the D800 / D610 which Sony designed & made, the Olympus OM-D series uses Sony sensors, the new Hasselblad and Phaseone backs use a Sony 50MP CMOS sensor and Sony command over 60% of the high end CMOS sensor market according to Image Sensor World.

Canon DO make great sensors & I like their colorimagery the 6d and 5d MKIII are great examples of that but the fact is their sensors are still of an older design sooner or later they know they will need to move to a new wafer like Sony. No I have not used the A7/R but I know pros that have and they say the results are stunning with better resolution than Canon. The Canon 7d in technology terms is long overdue replacement its IQ is now no match for the competition dont believe me look at the DXO scores.
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jrista

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Re: What's Next from Canon?
« Reply #215 on: March 04, 2014, 07:10:50 PM »
t does not look like you have used or own the Sony a7/R ... as nice as it is, it is no match for Canon DSLRs ... the only advantage  of Sony a7/R (over full frame DSLRs) is its compact/light size ... for everything else the Canon DSLRs are superior in every way.

The sensors Sony is using is the same sensor Nikon is using in the D800 / D610 which Sony designed & made, the Olympus OM-D series uses Sony sensors, the new Hasselblad and Phaseone backs use a Sony 50MP CMOS sensor and Sony command over 60% of the high end CMOS sensor market according to Image Sensor World.

Canon DO make great sensors & I like their colorimagery the 6d and 5d MKIII are great examples of that but the fact is their sensors are still of an older design sooner or later they know they will need to move to a new wafer like Sony. No I have not used the A7/R but I know pros that have and they say the results are stunning with better resolution than Canon. The Canon 7d in technology terms is long overdue replacement its IQ is now no match for the competition dont believe me look at the DXO scores.

Ready your squirrels, everyone! DXO's been mentioned! :P

jeffa4444

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Re: What's Next from Canon?
« Reply #216 on: March 04, 2014, 07:14:22 PM »
Oh and for the record Im not predicting Canon doom Im simply stating a technology company lives & dies by innovation and by pushing the envelope not by playing safe by way of example look how the stock markets reacts when they dont like Apple incremental changes.
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Re: What's Next from Canon?
« Reply #216 on: March 04, 2014, 07:14:22 PM »

mkabi

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Re: What's Next from Canon?
« Reply #217 on: March 04, 2014, 07:16:32 PM »
Why is it that all new comers, always bring up DXO scores?

Is there no other source?
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jeffa4444

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Re: What's Next from Canon?
« Reply #218 on: March 04, 2014, 07:19:06 PM »
OK JRISTA what measure do you want to use if DXO is "bad" give an alternative.
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neuroanatomist

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Re: What's Next from Canon?
« Reply #219 on: March 04, 2014, 07:19:27 PM »
Oh and for the record Im not predicting Canon doom Im simply stating a technology company lives & dies by innovation and by pushing the envelope not by playing safe by way of example look how the stock markets reacts when they dont like Apple incremental changes.

Right, because thousands of patents awarded per year, and things like dual pixel AF, are not innovative.   ::)

Ready your squirrels, everyone! DXO's been mentioned! :P

Biased Scores = BS = Ballsy Squirrels.  :P
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mkabi

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Re: What's Next from Canon?
« Reply #220 on: March 04, 2014, 07:20:52 PM »

It does not look like you have used or own the Sony a7/R ... as nice as it is, it is no match for Canon DSLRs ... the only advantage  of Sony a7/R (over full frame DSLRs) is its compact/light size ... for everything else the Canon DSLRs are superior in every way.

BTW, listen to this guy...
I don't think he is particularly brand loyal, cause look at his gear list... he has a Nikon and a Sony...

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jeffa4444

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Re: What's Next from Canon?
« Reply #221 on: March 04, 2014, 07:30:55 PM »
Apple have thousands of patents awarded each year (the system in the US is different to Europe where it is harder to get a unique patent) but that still didnt stop the stock market marking Apple down recently. Sony also have  thousands of patents every year likely as many as Canon.
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neuroanatomist

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Re: What's Next from Canon?
« Reply #222 on: March 04, 2014, 07:56:42 PM »
Apple have thousands of patents awarded each year (the system in the US is different to Europe where it is harder to get a unique patent) but that still didnt stop the stock market marking Apple down recently. Sony also have  thousands of patents every year likely as many as Canon.

Apple had less than 2,000 US patents issued in 2013, around 1,200 in 2012, and just over 800 in 2011.  Apple has ~7700 patents total.  Canon has averaged over 2,000 patents per year for the past 15 years (meaning they've had more patents granted in the past 4 years than Apple has had since the Steves founded the company). Canon has been in the top 5 worldwide for issued US patents each year for >20 years.  In other words, they have a long history of innovation.

Apple is trading recently much closer to its 52-week high than to its 52-week low.

Regardless, the point is that you seem to be implying that Canon is not innovating, and that's simply not the case.
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Re: What's Next from Canon?
« Reply #222 on: March 04, 2014, 07:56:42 PM »

emko

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Re: What's Next from Canon?
« Reply #223 on: March 04, 2014, 09:01:18 PM »
Apple have thousands of patents awarded each year (the system in the US is different to Europe where it is harder to get a unique patent) but that still didnt stop the stock market marking Apple down recently. Sony also have  thousands of patents every year likely as many as Canon.

Apple had less than 2,000 US patents issued in 2013, around 1,200 in 2012, and just over 800 in 2011.  Apple has ~7700 patents total.  Canon has averaged over 2,000 patents per year for the past 15 years (meaning they've had more patents granted in the past 4 years than Apple has had since the Steves founded the company). Canon has been in the top 5 worldwide for issued US patents each year for >20 years.  In other words, they have a long history of innovation.

Apple is trading recently much closer to its 52-week high than to its 52-week low.

Regardless, the point is that you seem to be implying that Canon is not innovating, and that's simply not the case.

It seems like they are innovating in AF and some other stuff but what everyone means is they want Canon with a better sensor then Sony's. I am sure Canon has something its just how long does it take to make and are they still working on it? even the high MP canon is still not out to compete with Nikon so i am sure they have something and waiting for the right time to release it. I am perfectly happy with my 5d iii but if i had the chance to get something better then Sonys sensor or even close to the same i would want it but that's eventually going to be on Canons system.

Could Canon just be milking out the profits on the current sensor tech? and just waiting until the last moment to release there new sensors?

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Re: What's Next from Canon?
« Reply #224 on: March 04, 2014, 09:32:34 PM »
Apple have thousands of patents awarded each year (the system in the US is different to Europe where it is harder to get a unique patent) but that still didnt stop the stock market marking Apple down recently. Sony also have  thousands of patents every year likely as many as Canon.

Apple had less than 2,000 US patents issued in 2013, around 1,200 in 2012, and just over 800 in 2011.  Apple has ~7700 patents total.  Canon has averaged over 2,000 patents per year for the past 15 years (meaning they've had more patents granted in the past 4 years than Apple has had since the Steves founded the company). Canon has been in the top 5 worldwide for issued US patents each year for >20 years.  In other words, they have a long history of innovation.

Apple is trading recently much closer to its 52-week high than to its 52-week low.

Regardless, the point is that you seem to be implying that Canon is not innovating, and that's simply not the case.

It seems like they are innovating in AF and some other stuff but what everyone means is they want Canon with a better sensor then Sony's. I am sure Canon has something its just how long does it take to make and are they still working on it? even the high MP canon is still not out to compete with Nikon so i am sure they have something and waiting for the right time to release it. I am perfectly happy with my 5d iii but if i had the chance to get something better then Sonys sensor or even close to the same i would want it but that's eventually going to be on Canons system.

Could Canon just be milking out the profits on the current sensor tech? and just waiting until the last moment to release there new sensors?
for clarity, I will ignore Rebels, EOS-M, and SL-1 and concentrate on the higher end cameras.


So the last DSLR to come out (the 70D) comes with DPAF... a new sensor using new technology.... so to speak, a game changer for sensors.....  It has done nothing to stop the forum members from crying about milking old sensor technology... The 1DX, the 5D3, the 6D, and the 7D have not been updated since the release of the 70D, but is there a single person here on the forum who does not think that DPAF is going to find it's way into these models in the next update cycle?

New technology is not retroactive. You can't go back in time and have it appear on past products... it rolls out in future releases.

WiFi came out on the 6D. Every camera after it (70D) has WiFi and you can bet that the 7D2, 5D4, and 1DX2 will have it built in.

Touchscreens came out on the 70D and you can bet that the 6D2, 7D2, 5D4, and 1DX2 will have it.

Watch what happens on the 7D2.... there is real potential that the 63 focus points we now think is so wonderful will become 10 million focus points and we will be able to track focus on a face in the crowd or a bird flying through the trees..... That is innovation. Adding a few more points is incremental improvement.
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Re: What's Next from Canon?
« Reply #224 on: March 04, 2014, 09:32:34 PM »