September 21, 2014, 02:25:41 AM

Author Topic: Canon PowerShot G1 X II Thoughts from CP+  (Read 3532 times)

traveller

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Re: Canon PowerShot G1 X II Thoughts from CP+
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2014, 01:11:35 PM »
After owning the s90 I stopped believing there's such a thing as a pocketable compact.

Even that camera was not comfortable to walk around with or store along with anything else in a pocket. I can't imagine what it's like to walk around with the RX100 in your pant pocket.

The G12 was far worse, even in my jacket pocket it felt like I was carrying a brick.

On a different note, I was watching one of the Canon preview videos and it looks like the G1X MkII retains the same crappy menu structure as the rest of the G-series; why can't they bring the high end Powershots into line with EOS, so we wouldn't have to learn a whole new system?

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Re: Canon PowerShot G1 X II Thoughts from CP+
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2014, 01:11:35 PM »

biggiep

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Re: Canon PowerShot G1 X II Thoughts from CP+
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2014, 03:12:03 PM »
This camera is way more interesting to me than an M. I don't want to have to invest into another lens system & the 24-120 built-in lens on this looks pretty rad! The price will drop a bit once all the G1X models are gone.

A pointed disputed by the fact that EOS-M + 18-55 + 20 pancake is still cheaper than the G2X.

And your point is disputed by the fact that the EOS-M tops out at 55mm at the long end with a lame f/3.5-5.6 aperture.

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Canon PowerShot G1 X II Thoughts from CP+
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2014, 10:22:17 PM »
The point of owning an RX100 is its "pocketability"; that's not to say that the G1X II won't fit in a pocket, just that the size of the pocket will need to be larger. The G1X II is actually larger than the full frame RX1 in most dimensions, though it is slightly shallower over the lens (the body itself is a bit chunkier).

Yeah for me I always use a DSLR unless I need something truly pocketable. I don't personally see the point of something half-way, if it's not truly, utterly pocketable it won't get used since I'd be using either something pocketable or a DSLR.

So for me it's RX100 II + DSLRs.

bholliman

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Re: Canon PowerShot G1 X II Thoughts from CP+
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2014, 11:23:33 PM »
This camera is way more interesting to me than an M. I don't want to have to invest into another lens system & the 24-120 built-in lens on this looks pretty rad! The price will drop a bit once all the G1X models are gone.

A pointed disputed by the fact that EOS-M + 18-55 + 20 pancake is still cheaper than the G2X.

And your point is disputed by the fact that the EOS-M tops out at 55mm at the long end with a lame f/3.5-5.6 aperture.

An this point is disputed by the fact that the G1 X II has a fixed lens and the EOS-M in an interchangeable lens camera.  Granted the current EF-M mount lens options are limited (currently 3), but with the EOS adapter, all EF and EF-S lenses can be used with the EOS-M, so a huge range of potential focal lengths and apertures. 

Note the G1 X II lens is 24-120mm 35mm film (FF) equivalent[/b] .  With the 1.92 crop factor, the lenses aperture is FF equivalent to f/3.8-7.5, not exactly fast!  You can use a f/1.2 or 1.4 primes on the EOS-M and for FF equivalent apertures of f/2 to f/2.2, something the G1XII can't get close to.

The larger APS-C sensor (1.6 crop factor) on the M also should have better resolution and IQ than the 1.92 crop factor sensor in the G1XII, although I haven't seen any test data on the new sensor yet.

All factors considered, the EOS-M has lots more to offer than the G1 X II for less than 1/2 the cost. 

« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 11:26:19 PM by bholliman »
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melbournite

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Re: Canon PowerShot G1 X II Thoughts from CP+
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2014, 06:03:53 AM »
The point of owning an RX100 is its "pocketability"; that's not to say that the G1X II won't fit in a pocket, just that the size of the pocket will need to be larger. The G1X II is actually larger than the full frame RX1 in most dimensions, though it is slightly shallower over the lens (the body itself is a bit chunkier).

Yeah for me I always use a DSLR unless I need something truly pocketable. I don't personally see the point of something half-way, if it's not truly, utterly pocketable it won't get used since I'd be using either something pocketable or a DSLR.

So for me it's RX100 II + DSLRs.

Me too.  I bought the 100D/SL1 thinking I could use it as a 'pocketable' to my DSLR's but when I used and tested a RX100II, I bought two (one for a wedding gift) and sold the 100D/SL1 (and my Lumix LX3).  Now 'pocketable' is a very loose term and even the RX100II doesn't fit in my jean pocket but it does fit in my man bag without taking up all the space that the 100D did.

weixing

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Re: Canon PowerShot G1 X II Thoughts from CP+
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2014, 06:09:39 AM »
Note the G1 X II lens is 24-120mm 35mm film (FF) equivalent[/b] .  With the 1.92 crop factor, the lenses aperture is FF equivalent to f/3.8-7.5, not exactly fast!  You can use a f/1.2 or 1.4 primes on the EOS-M and for FF equivalent apertures of f/2 to f/2.2, something the G1XII can't get close to.
    The f-ratio of the lens didn't change... the field of view is equivalent to 24-120mm 35mm FF.

    Have a nice day.

Roark

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Re: Canon PowerShot G1 X II Thoughts from CP+
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2014, 07:05:47 AM »
I may sound silly but I am thinking about buying this camera. Because it´s form factor is even smaller than my travel mft setup (I use three mft lenses) and a 24-120mm is all I really need for casual stuff. The big question is how it´s iq compares to the Olympus OMD lineup. It should be better in low light and maybe even better in the DR department.

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Re: Canon PowerShot G1 X II Thoughts from CP+
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2014, 07:05:47 AM »

bholliman

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Re: Canon PowerShot G1 X II Thoughts from CP+
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2014, 07:13:47 AM »
Note the G1 X II lens is 24-120mm 35mm film (FF) equivalent[/b] .  With the 1.92 crop factor, the lenses aperture is FF equivalent to f/3.8-7.5, not exactly fast!  You can use a f/1.2 or 1.4 primes on the EOS-M and for FF equivalent apertures of f/2 to f/2.2, something the G1XII can't get close to.
    The f-ratio of the lens didn't change... the field of view is equivalent to 24-120mm 35mm FF.

    Have a nice day.

I didn't say the f-ratio changed, that is the ratio of the focal length divided by the diameter of the entrance pupil of the lens.  However, the equivalent f/stop is different when comparing cameras with different sensor sizes.

The attached article explains it much better than I can.  Note the "Depth of Field Equivalents" calculator and explanation half way down the page. 

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/digital-camera-sensor-size.htm

Canon apparently created a new sensor size for the G1XII (according to this description from their website: "Focal Length - 12.5mm (W) - 62.5mm (T) (35mm film equivalent: 24-120mm)".  So, this would be a 1.92x crop factor, which is very close to the micro 4/3 sensor on the chart (2x crop factor).

This is a quote from the Cambridgeincolour article:
Quote
As sensor size increases, the depth of field will decrease for a given aperture (when filling the frame with a subject of the same size and distance). This is because larger sensors require one to get closer to their subject, or to use a longer focal length in order to fill the frame with that subject. This means that one has to use progressively smaller aperture sizes in order to maintain the same depth of field on larger sensors. The following calculator predicts the required aperture and focal length in order to achieve the same depth of field (while maintaining perspective).

Have a good day!
« Last Edit: February 15, 2014, 07:26:18 AM by bholliman »
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Roark

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Re: Canon PowerShot G1 X II Thoughts from CP+
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2014, 07:28:08 AM »
Who cares about dof with a camera like the G1 X II? The exposure is exactly the same as you would get with a full frame or Crop sensor, only the dof roughly doubles because of the crop factor. Anyone who really needs thin dof should buy something else - different strokes for different folks.

(The Sony RX 100 and all the other super zoom compact cameras are much "worse" in regard to dof due to their even smaller sensors.)

« Last Edit: February 15, 2014, 07:39:42 AM by Roark »

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Re: Canon PowerShot G1 X II Thoughts from CP+
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2014, 07:39:22 AM »
Who cares about dof with a camera like the G1 X II? The exposure is exactly the same as you would get with a full frame or Crop sensor, only the dof roughly doubles because of the crop factor. Anyone who really needs thin dof should buy something else - different strokes for different folks.

Canon states, "a circular, 9-blade aperture for stunning blurred background."   Maybe they meant stunning, not-very-blurred backgrounds.
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infared

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Re: Canon PowerShot G1 X II Thoughts from CP+
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2014, 09:04:12 AM »
The G1X-II looks to me to be a collossal waste of time and money for Canon development.  If they had wanted to
hit a home run, they should have used M lenses, priced it at $499.00 and pushed it as a new mirrorless system.
Now they just have two turkeys on their hands and will have a hard time selling either.

+100
I find it especially interesting that Canon offers a $300 EVF for a fixed-lens P&S camera and offers no such option for an interchangeable-lens "system" camera like the M.  They did not even get that right on the M2?

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« Last Edit: February 15, 2014, 09:11:17 AM by infared »
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Re: Canon PowerShot G1 X II Thoughts from CP+
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2014, 09:19:20 AM »
I hope that they pull the plug on their M system. I don´t want to buy new lenses and I don´t want to lug them around. Make a good compact zoom cameras and concentrate on FF format.

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Re: Canon PowerShot G1 X II Thoughts from CP+
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2014, 09:33:49 AM »
I hope that they pull the plug on their M system. I don´t want to buy new lenses and I don´t want to lug them around. Make a good compact zoom cameras and concentrate on FF format.

And why do you think producing the M series and good compact zoom cameras are mutually exclusive. You don't have to lug anything around because you don't have to buy it.
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Re: Canon PowerShot G1 X II Thoughts from CP+
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2014, 09:33:49 AM »

bholliman

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Re: Canon PowerShot G1 X II Thoughts from CP+
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2014, 10:37:00 AM »
With the 1.92 crop factor, the lenses aperture is FF equivalent to f/3.8-7.5, not exactly fast! 
Who cares about dof with a camera like the G1 X II? The exposure is exactly the same as you would get with a full frame or Crop sensor, only the dof roughly doubles because of the crop factor. Anyone who really needs thin dof should buy something else - different strokes for different folks.

Canon states, "a circular, 9-blade aperture for stunning blurred background."   Maybe they meant stunning, not-very-blurred backgrounds.

I was thinking about this misleading marketing statement when I made my point about the lens not really being all that fast.  Sure, you will get a small amount background blurring, something most P&S and phone cameras are nearly incapable of, but certainly not "stunning blurred background(s)".  Very misleading.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2014, 10:38:52 AM by bholliman »
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Re: Canon PowerShot G1 X II Thoughts from CP+
« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2014, 06:26:23 PM »
.
The more I think about this camera, I can't help but wonder...

Is it really just a toy for the dilettantes?

Who pays $800 + (the EVF toy, lens hood, etc. don't forget) for a point & shoot camera in a vanishing market segment?

It's small enough to be "not a DSLR," yet it's not really small enough to put in a pocket (like my venerable S95).

I don't see anyone buying this as a sole camera. It has to be a second camera, and it really only makes sense as a second to the FF DSLR models. Everything in the APS-C realm (Canon's anyway) will perform rings around it.

Since it doesn't really fit into any Canon "system," it has to compete directly with similar products being produced by Sony, etc. The EOS-M at least had a system connection and relation. I don't see it doing well against similar, perhaps more innovative products.

As usual, I have more questions than answers. Perhaps over the next few months reliable reviews will start being published and the true pedigree of this camera will emerge.
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Re: Canon PowerShot G1 X II Thoughts from CP+
« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2014, 06:26:23 PM »