October 30, 2014, 10:10:21 AM

Author Topic: Is the canon eos-m a dead end system?  (Read 16609 times)

Aglet

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Re: Is the canon eos-m a dead end system?
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2014, 04:32:41 AM »
The M's not dead but... until they improve it to be competitive with the likes of Sony, Fuji, and Olympus, there's little point to having one, IMO... I'd rather use a G1x2 and not have to carry lenses.  Now if they don't overprice the G1x2...  it'll be a very interesting option.

The G1x2 development story was an interesting read.
I'm looking forward to seeing how it will really perform.
Looks like they've tucked in a sensor that's very close to micro-four-thirds size in order to meet the ambitious lens specs.
Not that there's anything wrong with that!
I actually think they've done a good evaluation of what a high end fixed-lens almost-compact camera should be and built it accordingly.

When the original G1x came out I was really temped to buy one, as carrying it, and also the smaller G11/12, would cover almost every still type shot I would encounter while on the road.  Sadly, I found the IQ a bit too lacking in the G1x so decided to skip it.  This v2, however, I will be looking at more closely.  I've always had a fondness for nice compact cameras. (as I look at my table with 8 PowerShot G-series cameras sitting on it.. anyone have the number for the addictions hotline? ;) )

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Re: Is the canon eos-m a dead end system?
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2014, 04:32:41 AM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Is the canon eos-m a dead end system?
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2014, 07:02:39 AM »
I would not buy the adapter because I don't see the point in having a big lens on a tiny body it's past the point where it's light to carry easy to slip into a small case.

The EF adapter allows the M to serve as a backup body when traveling with a bag full of lenses that would otherwise become useless if the primary camera fails.  When traveling, I bring the M + 22 along for times when small size is necessary, and the EF adapter 'just in case'.
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photonius

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Re: Is the canon eos-m a dead end system?
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2014, 10:02:17 AM »
What killed the first EOS-M for me was that it couldn't be used in tethered mode. I'm not sure why that was not possible - unless it was done on purpose to not compete with the dSLRs. The EOS-M2 supposedly can do it, but not sold. I think it would make a great camera for remote control (with an external power supply). Ok, it's a niche market perhaps, but each feature one eliminates results in more lost sales.

unfocused

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Re: Is the canon eos-m a dead end system?
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2014, 12:18:07 PM »
Yes.

But, it isn't any more of a dead end than any other mirrorless interchangeable lens system.
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AvTvM

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Re: Is the canon eos-m a dead end system?
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2014, 01:11:53 PM »
But, it isn't any more of a dead end than any other mirrorless interchangeable lens system.

EOS-M is currently a much "deader end" than any other interchangeable-lens mirrorless system on the market today, with the notable exception of Nikon 1 and Pentax Q systems.

* mFT ecosystem
* Fuji X system
* Sony Alpha A7/R plus ZE-lenses
* Sony NEX/Alpha [APS-C -mount]
* Samsung NX
for all there are new bodies and new lenses coming onstream ... and sold everywhere - including the US and Europe.


I actually do hope, the current EOS-M turns out to be a dead end ... BUT ONLY IF ... Canon realizes they made a mistake with it (APS-C sensor, no EVF, no powerful AF-system) and comes up with a truly impressive FF-sensored mirrorless EOS-line ... bodies and lenses, budget and hi-end stuff galore ...  :)

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Is the canon eos-m a dead end system?
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2014, 01:35:10 PM »
There is a interesting interview at DPR with Nikon executives after CP+. 
 
They are very clear about poor acceptance of mirrorless in the USA and Europe, its poor.  In Asia, its much better.  Nikon claims that people in the USA feel that a large DSLR provides better images due to its size. 
 
Another thing to consider is the size of hands.  My hands are very large, and on a tiny camera, I find it difficult to push just one button at a time.  I think this is part of the story.
 
I'd like to see a FF mirrorless Canon camera that was full sized and used EF lenses.  The issue is AF in low light, but the dual pixel AF system seems to be fairly good in low light, so maybe its coming.
 
Right now, sales of all cameras is slow, and companies are not spending a lot to tool and market completely new technologies, but instead stick to the well developed and cheaper to implement technologies.
 
I do think that the EOS M system will be developed into a big selling US product, but not soon.

Arctic Photo

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Re: Is the canon eos-m a dead end system?
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2014, 01:56:12 PM »
I don't think so, at least not the mount as such. I don't know of course, but seeing the volumes they seem to sell in Asia I'd guess it's a profitable product line and rarely do companies scrap those. I think PBD has a good point about its integration with the EOS-line also. Using the very nice 22mm on it and then being able to mount also one of your existing EF-lenses on it makes for a good package. I will buy an m as a second camera to my 5dMkIII. I am just not sure how long to wait, if I should wait for the m3. Someone said it was a mistake to put a crop sensor in it, I don't get why that would be a mistake. It's still a well performing sensor and what is there to say that they can't make an m full frame? The mount as such wouldn't be an obstacle as far as I understand.  It would be kind of cool if Canon offered both crop and full frame versions of the m will all the nice lenses.

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Re: Is the canon eos-m a dead end system?
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2014, 01:56:12 PM »

Bruce Photography

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Re: Is the canon eos-m a dead end system?
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2014, 01:58:55 PM »
I would not buy the adapter because I don't see the point in having a big lens on a tiny body it's past the point where it's light to carry easy to slip into a small case.

The EF adapter allows the M to serve as a backup body when traveling with a bag full of lenses that would otherwise become useless if the primary camera fails.  When traveling, I bring the M + 22 along for times when small size is necessary, and the EF adapter 'just in case'.

+1 on using it as a backup body.  I keep one with adapter and the 50mm 1.8 for low light along with both eos-m lenses in a box type thinktank bag that is not much bigger than what I carry a flash in.  In fact I'm glad I've bought several eos-m bodies so I have plenty of backup to the backup.  I never want to go to a smaller sensor size when this one is so perfect.  What a great camera for teaching students of photography at the $350 price including raw shooting and processing.  For the next generation, a swivel screen could be useful without adding much (if any) to the size factor.  The eos-m with the 85mm 1.8 is quite a combination for candid's.  I love this camera -- just not for my main camera.

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Is the canon eos-m a dead end system?
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2014, 02:12:52 PM »
Using the very nice 22mm on it and then being able to mount also one of your existing EF-lenses on it makes for a good package.

Sorry, but you can not mount a EF lens on the EOS-M.  I think you know this, but not everyone will, so its misleading newbies.
 
You must use a expensive Adapter.  If you buy a EOS M because of its size, adding a adapter to a already large EF lens is not going to make for a small system.

noncho

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Re: Is the canon eos-m a dead end system?
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2014, 02:22:01 PM »
I'm going to buy 11-22 soon, it's still the best ultra wide small lens for the price.

Ricku

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Re: Is the canon eos-m a dead end system?
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2014, 02:43:10 PM »
It is very much dead, at least until Canon brings it to the same level as other mirrorless systems from Sony, Fuji, e.t.c

Canon is of course terrified of making a serious mirrorless camera like the A7R. They don't want to hurt the sales of their DSLR's.

DRR

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Re: Is the canon eos-m a dead end system?
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2014, 02:52:01 PM »

I'd like to see a FF mirrorless Canon camera that was full sized and used EF lenses.  The issue is AF in low light, but the dual pixel AF system seems to be fairly good in low light, so maybe its coming.


This is what I'd like to see as well. If Canon came out with a Sony A7, and it took EF lenses, I would seriously consider buying it.  Or as an alternative, something smaller like a NEX-5 that had an APS-C sensor and took EF/EFS lenses.

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Re: Is the canon eos-m a dead end system?
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2014, 03:24:01 PM »
They are very clear about poor acceptance of mirrorless in the USA and Europe, its poor.  In Asia, its much better.  Nikon claims that people in the USA feel that a large DSLR provides better images due to its size. 
IMHO their marketing depts. are unable to understand what is the prospect customer of such kind of cameras. "Mirrorless" cameras with interchangeable lenses are the digital counterpart of rangefinder cameras - and they became a niche market for a given type of photographer, the one looking for a smaller, yet powerful camera with lenses allowing for more versatility than a fixed lens zoom. Often, one already owning an SLR, but looking for something lighter and smaller to complement it. In Europe, and probably in the USA also, it's not the camera you can sell to the P&S user looking for something "cooler". Because or their happy with their P&S (or even their phone, today), or they will look for an SLR for the "cool" factor - maybe never removing the kit lens to mount a different one. Interchangeable lenses are appealing to a very different kind of customer.
I believe the actual M cameras are products looking for a customer. I would buy a "digital rangefinder" to complement my 5D, especially if I can mount my EF lenses on it, but it needs to be a camera able to be a smaller, lighter alternative to the 5D - not a PowerShot with interchangeable lenses. It means some kind of good viewfinder - sorry - I can't stand taking pictures looking at a screen with the camera fifteen centimetres from my nose - and "professional" control for settings. But I see that instead of moving up the M line, Canon decided to "dumb down" the GX line.

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Re: Is the canon eos-m a dead end system?
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2014, 03:24:01 PM »

AvTvM

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Re: Is the canon eos-m a dead end system?
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2014, 03:55:02 PM »
Someone said it was a mistake to put a crop sensor in it, I don't get why that would be a mistake. It's still a well performing sensor and what is there to say that they can't make an m full frame? The mount as such wouldn't be an obstacle as far as I understand.  It would be kind of cool if Canon offered both crop and full frame versions of the m will all the nice lenses.

You are mistaken. The eos-m mount can physically not handle an ff image circle. Sony was smarter and made their e-mount just barely large enough to also handle ff. Canon was stupid, as so often. Aps-c only. Dead-slow AF. Same tired old 18 MP sensor, a dinosaur from 5 years ago. Bad low iso performance. Poor hi-iso performance.

Dead end.  only fire-sellable at usd 299 including kit lens and useless external flash.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2014, 04:23:25 PM by AvTvM »

smozes

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Re: Is the canon eos-m a dead end system?
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2014, 03:59:43 PM »
There was a DPReview interview with a Fuji SVP of marketing:

Quote
Is there more profit to be made in the high-end market?

Yes. For two reasons. The bodies themselves, we can sell at a higher price but also we sell more lenses with higher-end cameras, so overall it’s more profitable. Our research shows that the attachment rate for a high-end camera like the X-Pro 1 is around 3.8, whereas cameras like the X-A1 it’s more like 1.2. With low-end cameras people often just stick with the kit lens.

So this is interesting: entry level mirrorless don't really make sense if buyers only stick with the kit lens.

It's also common for reviewers of high end mirrorless to conclude that once mounted with large lenses, the small bodies don't make much sense.

Taking all these together, I think Canon sees DSLRs as the right answer for high end needs anyway, and entry level or small form factor better served with large sensor, fixed lens compact and all the optimization benefits.

I'm the kind of buyer who wanted APS-C quality in a small camera, but didn't want to spend $2000 for a top end mirrorless with a collection of lenses. The price and size of the M did it for me. Not exactly an entry level buyer, but also not committed to a full collection. But I'm probably not a typical buyer.
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Re: Is the canon eos-m a dead end system?
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2014, 03:59:43 PM »