August 01, 2014, 09:34:22 AM

Author Topic: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?  (Read 5674 times)

jrista

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Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2014, 11:25:49 PM »
Also, the article was japanese...who knows if it really has anything to do with the sales of these models in western countries. If they are still making money on them here (I kind of doubt they are making all that much still, especially with the likes of the iPhone and Lumia 1020 on the market), they may still sell them here.

FWIW, the Americas and Europe each accounted for ~30% of fixed-lens cameras in 2013, so 'western countries' are buying the majority of P&S cameras (although the distribution of high end vs. low end could vary by geography).

So, is that 60% of a market that shrunk by 40% over the last three years, or a broader market? I mean, if the market is shrinking, and western countries were the bulk of the sales in that market, then that would seem to mean that the bulk of the shrink in market share came from us as well.

So even if we are the major buyers of "fixed-lens cameras" (that's pretty broad right there...it encompasses  more than the sub $200 camera market), then I am not really surprised by the article or the claim that Canon is going to ease out of the ultra low end of that market. I know a LOT more people these days have the Lumia 1020 here in Colorado. I see them everywhere now (I have the Lumia 920, and the large lens on the back of everyone else' Lumia is always telling me I need to upgrade! :P) Everyone else has an iPhone...I rarely ever see anyone taking pictures with a cheap P&S anymore...everyone does their photography with their phones (and there are of course the few nitwits who take photos with their giant iPads as well.)
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Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2014, 11:25:49 PM »

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Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2014, 12:53:18 AM »
I suspect that Canon is losing money on the low end cameras.  Even if they sell a ton of them, losing or making no money in order to move them is not all that smart, and spending more money to develop, tool, stock, and advertise new models is a poor investment.  Canon is seeing good sales of the super zoom P&S cameras, and they make a high profit, so I expect to see more emphasis on them.  The SX50 has received very high user ratings.

lopicma

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Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2014, 01:57:14 AM »
I would still rather use a point and shoot camera than a cell phone...  Only advantage the phone has is the post processing features...  which may indicate I took a bad picture to begin with.  LOL

Anyway, I hope Canon can catch up to the likes of Sony, Pentax and Olympus - and FAST!  Both Nikon and Canon have fallen behind in innovative features, and in some cases current technologies.

Come on Canon, I'm routing for you!
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Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2014, 03:25:51 AM »
Interesting take by Thom Hogan on this news

http://www.gearophile.com/newsviews/canon-retreats.html

Quote
Canon more so than any of the other compact camera makers seems to be taking more of a “if you can’t beat them, join them” approach towards smartphones at the moment. Whether that’s enough to keep the rest of their compact line alive remains to be seen.

What Canon’s new compact lineup looks like is this: waterproof cameras, cameras with huge focal length ranges, the N series I just described, and the very high end G1x and G## cameras.

Canon isn’t the first to make a withdrawal at the low end. Fujifilm, Olympus, and Panasonic have already made similar comments, and Casio recently has done the same. Pentax executives have been quoted as saying the company is just concentrating on waterproof and high-end compact cameras, which brings us back to Nikon, the lone hold-out in the model reduction campaign. As it is during the last decade Nikon has gone from being #5 in compacts to #1 in terms of unit volume and are the winners of a what may end up a Pyrrhic victory.

Last one out should close the door. But you have to get out first ;~).
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Rienzphotoz

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Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2014, 05:07:02 AM »
Fixed lens cameras accounted for ~46% of the total revenue from digital cameras last year.  In general, the cheaper models of a given product line outsell the high end models.  Seems like a lot of ¥ to throw away.
When they say "leave the entry level point & shoot market", maybe they mean not develop any more new designs/models but continue to sell the existing ones ... which would mean they don't need to spend more money on R&D, designing teams etc ... in which case they may not be throwing away the ¥
« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 12:27:09 PM by Rienzphotoz »
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cbphoto

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Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?
« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2014, 08:28:25 AM »
I'd be interested in a Canon smartphone, assuming it had an open architecture for apps.

We haven't used either of our Canon p&s cameras in four years—since we bought iPhones.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 08:31:31 AM by cbphoto »
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Daniel Flather

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Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2014, 12:48:01 PM »
Smartphones are integrated into the internets and social media.  That's what killed P&S cameras.  Quality means nothing in this segment.
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Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?
« Reply #21 on: February 25, 2014, 12:48:01 PM »

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Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?
« Reply #22 on: February 25, 2014, 12:57:46 PM »
Smartphones are integrated into the internets and social media.  That's what killed P&S cameras.  Quality means nothing in this segment.
True, I think convenience beat out quality here ... I shoot more with my smart phone than any other camera. of course none of them are for artistic reasons, I use my smartphone to take pictures of newspaper adverts, take photos of important documents (and use it as a scanned copy), restaurant menus, screen shots and whatnot. I suppose for those who are not "into" photography, a smartphone is far more better and convenient/useful than any high end camera or camcorder.
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Don Haines

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Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?
« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2014, 01:18:19 PM »
And with Sony introducing a smartphone with a 20 megapixel camera, water resistent to 5 feet, and shoots 4K video, this is an awful hard market for a non-phone to compete in.....
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Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?
« Reply #24 on: February 25, 2014, 07:02:42 PM »
FF mirrorless body is about same size as P&S. It's time Mr. Canon, before it too late ::)

don't see how this changes the equation.  Mirrorless FF will be at least 1k  more expensive than anyone in the entry level P&S category is looking to spend ($200 or so vs $1500-2500)...

Mirrorless doesn't get you to facebook.  Mirrorless doesn't let you watch youtube.  Mirrorless doesn't let you do video chat.  Mirrorless doesn't give you a dataplan!  Mirrorless does not give you angry birds, words with friends or candy crush saga, or any of the other apps like that.... Mirrorless won't get you to porn (unless you film it yourself)...

Those not buying entry level P&S cameras kind of want 1 device.  Cell phone cameras for the most part are pretty much as good in most situations as a p&S - mind you, we're talking about very casual shooters here.  Mirrorless is way more expensive, not as capable (for what that market wants).  Mirrorless, especially FF mirrorless is gonna only appeal to a unique niche mix of pros, hobbyists and enthusiasts or those who travel a lot!

Either way, it makes sense, anything below slr's has to offer something compelling, and entry level P&S's are far from compelling!!!!

Instead of using R&D resources to develop 100ish diff. P&S, Canon now can use that R&D resources in decent mirrorless. FF mirrorless I hope.

Canon can kick start with FF mirrorless + 20mm F4 pancake. Follow with 17, 35, 50, 85mm pancake style.

I didn't buy A7r due to DR crap. I bought it for few reasons - compact and FF IQ(higher ISO). I wish Canon would release something like this soon so we don't have to discuss this topic ever again ;)

 
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Chuck Alaimo

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Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?
« Reply #25 on: February 25, 2014, 11:52:16 PM »
FF mirrorless body is about same size as P&S. It's time Mr. Canon, before it too late ::)

don't see how this changes the equation.  Mirrorless FF will be at least 1k  more expensive than anyone in the entry level P&S category is looking to spend ($200 or so vs $1500-2500)...

Mirrorless doesn't get you to facebook.  Mirrorless doesn't let you watch youtube.  Mirrorless doesn't let you do video chat.  Mirrorless doesn't give you a dataplan!  Mirrorless does not give you angry birds, words with friends or candy crush saga, or any of the other apps like that.... Mirrorless won't get you to porn (unless you film it yourself)...

Those not buying entry level P&S cameras kind of want 1 device.  Cell phone cameras for the most part are pretty much as good in most situations as a p&S - mind you, we're talking about very casual shooters here.  Mirrorless is way more expensive, not as capable (for what that market wants).  Mirrorless, especially FF mirrorless is gonna only appeal to a unique niche mix of pros, hobbyists and enthusiasts or those who travel a lot!

Either way, it makes sense, anything below slr's has to offer something compelling, and entry level P&S's are far from compelling!!!!

Instead of using R&D resources to develop 100ish diff. P&S, Canon now can use that R&D resources in decent mirrorless. FF mirrorless I hope.

Canon can kick start with FF mirrorless + 20mm F4 pancake. Follow with 17, 35, 50, 85mm pancake style.

I didn't buy A7r due to DR crap. I bought it for few reasons - compact and FF IQ(higher ISO). I wish Canon would release something like this soon so we don't have to discuss this topic ever again ;)

I still don't get how FF mirrorless changes this equation man.  Like I said "Mirrorless FF will be at least 1k  more expensive than anyone in the entry level P&S category is looking to spend ($200 or so vs $1500-2500)."  If your looking to spend $200 on a camera (which is what we're talking about here, entry level stuff) then how is FF mirrorless R&D going to help?  This market segment isn't gonna buy anything over $1000 - save the select few who want to take it to the next level. 

To put it on another level - even mirrorless APS-C doesn't fill the current entry level niche.  They could push out a mirrorless rebel for instance, the $600-800 with lens price tag won't be appealing.  The are people that are ditching cameras with better IQ for cell phones...   
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jrbdmb

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Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?
« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2014, 10:31:22 AM »
FF mirrorless body is about same size as P&S. It's time Mr. Canon, before it too late ::)

don't see how this changes the equation.  Mirrorless FF will be at least 1k  more expensive than anyone in the entry level P&S category is looking to spend ($200 or so vs $1500-2500)...

Mirrorless doesn't get you to facebook.  Mirrorless doesn't let you watch youtube.  Mirrorless doesn't let you do video chat.  Mirrorless doesn't give you a dataplan!  Mirrorless does not give you angry birds, words with friends or candy crush saga, or any of the other apps like that.... Mirrorless won't get you to porn (unless you film it yourself)...

Those not buying entry level P&S cameras kind of want 1 device.  Cell phone cameras for the most part are pretty much as good in most situations as a p&S - mind you, we're talking about very casual shooters here.  Mirrorless is way more expensive, not as capable (for what that market wants).  Mirrorless, especially FF mirrorless is gonna only appeal to a unique niche mix of pros, hobbyists and enthusiasts or those who travel a lot!

Either way, it makes sense, anything below slr's has to offer something compelling, and entry level P&S's are far from compelling!!!!

Instead of using R&D resources to develop 100ish diff. P&S, Canon now can use that R&D resources in decent mirrorless. FF mirrorless I hope.

Canon can kick start with FF mirrorless + 20mm F4 pancake. Follow with 17, 35, 50, 85mm pancake style.

I didn't buy A7r due to DR crap. I bought it for few reasons - compact and FF IQ(higher ISO). I wish Canon would release something like this soon so we don't have to discuss this topic ever again ;)

I don't think you can compare a $100 P&S to a $2300 A7r. 

Unless economies of scale change dramatically, FF mirrorless will never make a significant dent in the market due to its high cost.

jrista

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Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2014, 02:45:31 PM »
Smartphones are integrated into the internets and social media.  That's what killed P&S cameras.  Quality means nothing in this segment.
True, I think convenience beat out quality here ... I shoot more with my smart phone than any other camera. of course none of them are for artistic reasons, I use my smartphone to take pictures of newspaper adverts, take photos of important documents (and use it as a scanned copy), restaurant menus, screen shots and whatnot. I suppose for those who are not "into" photography, a smartphone is far more better and convenient/useful than any high end camera or camcorder.

I think its not just convenience...its the whole "the camera in the hand" argument. I mean, it's convenient having a camera on your phone...but the big issue is that, everyone has their phone. It's ALWAYS on their person. No matter how good a dedicated camera device may be, the only camera that really matters is the one you have on your person, the one you can put in your hand at a moment's notice. There is really no competing with a universal device that is always on and always in hand. Phone camera controls are often very inconvenient. Even Lumia's new Nokia Camera software, while better, is still not convenient. It's tedious. But it's the camera I have in hand all the time.
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Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2014, 02:45:31 PM »

Rienzphotoz

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Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?
« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2014, 11:49:31 PM »
Smartphones are integrated into the internets and social media.  That's what killed P&S cameras.  Quality means nothing in this segment.
True, I think convenience beat out quality here ... I shoot more with my smart phone than any other camera. of course none of them are for artistic reasons, I use my smartphone to take pictures of newspaper adverts, take photos of important documents (and use it as a scanned copy), restaurant menus, screen shots and whatnot. I suppose for those who are not "into" photography, a smartphone is far more better and convenient/useful than any high end camera or camcorder.

I think its not just convenience...its the whole "the camera in the hand" argument. I mean, it's convenient having a camera on your phone...but the big issue is that, everyone has their phone. It's ALWAYS on their person. No matter how good a dedicated camera device may be, the only camera that really matters is the one you have on your person, the one you can put in your hand at a moment's notice. There is really no competing with a universal device that is always on and always in hand. Phone camera controls are often very inconvenient. Even Lumia's new Nokia Camera software, while better, is still not convenient. It's tedious. But it's the camera I have in hand all the time.
Agreed, and that's what I meant by convenience.
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lopicma

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Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2014, 01:14:55 PM »
I'm looking at my 2 PowerShot cameras - an old A720 and an A2200.  While all the specs would be/should be better on the A2200, the A720 has a superior lens package.  The A2200 blows it away otherwise.

A720 8mpix
5.8-34.8mm f/2.8-4.8  MACRO capable focus is 1mm or closer!

A2200 14 mpix
5.0-20.0mm f/2.8-5.9

Maybe if Canon had put more effort into lens technology in these low end cameras they would take better pictures than a cell phone?  I guess the point is moot now.  :-\
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Re: Canon to Leave the Entry Level Point & Shoot Market?
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2014, 01:14:55 PM »