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Author Topic: Feedback on 1D X from 1-series users?  (Read 9243 times)

neuroanatomist

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Feedback on 1D X from 1-series users?
« on: October 23, 2011, 01:07:23 PM »
So far, we've heard a lot of feedback, mainly complaints, from people who are not currently using 1-series bodies, and don't seriously plan to get one.  Sort of like people who say, "I was going to buy a Ferrari California, but now I'm not since they didn't put a V12 in it," and then just keep on driving their Toyota Camry, or at the most take out a 5-year loan on a newer model of the same car.

I bet many of those individuals were hoping, secretly or openly, for a camera with everything (FF, ultrahigh MP, superfast fps, excellent AF, top build) costing only slightly more than the 5DII.  Or they were hoping for features in the 1-series that would obviously trickle down into lesser bodies. 

But, with a few exceptions, we haven't seen much from current 1-series users.  I would think those are the people to whom Canon listened when designing the 1D X.  One important factor - many of them, especially 1D IV users, can add a 1D X and keep their current 1D IV for those times when they'll be limited by focal length and need the 1.3x crop and/or the ability to AF af f/8 (with one point, meaning static subjects only).

So, if you currently own/use a 1-series body, what do you think of the 1D X, and will you be getting one? 
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Feedback on 1D X from 1-series users?
« on: October 23, 2011, 01:07:23 PM »

Pedro Ramones

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Re: Feedback on 1D X from 1-series users?
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2011, 02:19:24 PM »
absolutely right ! i also believe most peolple just talk and never even had their hands on a 1 series body, to start with ! i still have a 1 V HS a 1DsMKII and a 1DMKIV...some people talk like if  cameras are some sort of user costumisable itens like home computers !! all that technoly comes with a cost and it´s absolutely NOT just like adding a few( or a lot) of line codes and then the cameras does it all ! i have always complained about the absence of MultiExposure and finally rhe 1 D X has it! still no NTFS partition on cards, but at leaste the 12 minute cut was explained. i am very happy with what it offers but surelu would like to try before i buy,even if on papaer it has all i need...or want LOL Full Frame, fast shooting and reasonable video. i completely understand the 18 MP limit, but it also would not come as a surprise if Canon was to deliver a 24,32,36 or even more MP model one of these days,as i still think the 1 D X is very reporter/action oriented. so just wait and enjoy this one, while you can...and IF you can :)

sjprg

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Re: Feedback on 1D X from 1-series users?
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2011, 03:23:54 PM »
As a 1DSIII owner and landscape photographer I am still looking for Canon to give us at least the equivelent of the Lieca S2 as the replacement for the 1DSIII! The 1D X will be a great camera for the PJs and probably the wedding photographers also. If i was starting from scratch, with no cameras at all I would probably buy the 1D X although it is not really the camera I would prefer. (Hassys cost too much) Canon has the technology to give us 50/60 MP at 16 bit @ 1 FPS which is what the landscape shooter wants and needs, and I beleive that the EOS mount will at least support the S2 format and still allow us the use of existing lenses. Canon knows about the PJ market but I don't think they realize how many landscapers would jump on a 10K MF camera. Pentax is an Iffy company, and Minolta has disappeared from the MF scene.
Paul

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Re: Feedback on 1D X from 1-series users?
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2011, 03:49:22 PM »
As a 1DSIII owner and landscape photographer I am still looking for Canon to give us at least the equivelent of the Lieca S2 as the replacement for the 1DSIII! The 1D X will be a great camera for the PJs and probably the wedding photographers also. If i was starting from scratch, with no cameras at all I would probably buy the 1D X although it is not really the camera I would prefer. (Hassys cost too much) Canon has the technology to give us 50/60 MP at 16 bit @ 1 FPS which is what the landscape shooter wants and needs, and I beleive that the EOS mount will at least support the S2 format and still allow us the use of existing lenses. Canon knows about the PJ market but I don't think they realize how many landscapers would jump on a 10K MF camera. Pentax is an Iffy company, and Minolta has disappeared from the MF scene.
Paul

EOS/EF lenses would work on a sensor the size of the S2?

My guess would be the part of the reason for the 1Ds being phased out would be that with the 645D around they want to maxmise the size/cost advanatges of a FF high megapixel camera.


Nitroman

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Re: Feedback on 1D X from 1-series users?
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2011, 04:28:17 PM »
I'm REALLY disappointed with Canon's announcement about the 1DX replacing the 1Ds range.

I'm a pro photographer who shoots portraits, landscapes, people, tourism, 360 degree panoramas and video. I've been using Canon for the last five years since I switched from Nikon when they claimed they had no plans for full frame cameras. I own the 1Ds2, 1Ds3, the 5D and two 5D2's that i use for video. More fool Nikon for lying and losing my custom but that's another story  ;D 

As i see it, the 1DX is a replacement for 1D4 users, but i'd imagine most wildlife / sports photographers will miss the extended range the 1.3x crop factor used to give their telephotos. Great fast fps, great high iso performance but less megapixels than my existing 1Ds3 is diabolical.

I'd don't know how feasible it could have been, but I'd have liked Canon to have released the 1DX as full frame 30mp+ pro body. If it had a min of 5fps, quality AF and an electronically masked viewfinder / image (and 18mp) for when the extended 1.3 (or 1.6x) crop was needed, i'd have been happy. I'd have thought this design spec would have been perfectly possible whilst maintaining the high fps.

I like my two 5D2s for video. To me, the larger size of the 1D bodies makes them less appealing for dslr video use. The new 1DX apparently has reduced moire which is encouraging but sounds like it will still be apparent which is also a shame and doesn't bode well for the 5D3.

I won't be upgrading my 1Ds3 for a similar priced camera (£5300) with fewer mp. I've waited four years for the new 1Ds3 replacement but to me, the 1DX is a step back.  :'(

If Canon release a medium format camera with 40mp+, I won't be buying it as it would need a whole load of new Canon MF pro quality glass and i've spent £12K on 35mm L lenses. I just wanted a newer and better 1Ds3 !!!

So, all in all, I see this new camera as a massive let down for me and the work I do. Time will tell if Canon have an alternative in the pipeline that meets with my pro requirements.

wockawocka

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Re: Feedback on 1D X from 1-series users?
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2011, 05:24:32 PM »
I own a 1D4, 2 x 1Ds3 and a 5D2.

I'm primarily a wedding photographer (47 this year, 35 already booked for next) who also does a significant amount of portraits.

For me I was perfectly happy with the 1Ds3 apart from a few things which I'll list below in the order or most important:

Rubbish LCD (Biggest hinderance to me)
High ISO performance
CPU speed (buffer emptying speed)
Shutter Noise

To counter this, I used the 1D4 which addressed all of the above....except it wasn't full frame.

You could say it was like dating a hot girl who was a psychopath.

For me the 1Dx is the (almost) perfect camera and indirectly it's beneficial in other areas.

I can sell my 24L prime and I can start using my 24-105L in a church by bumping the ISO.
I also now effectively can effectively replace my 24-70 and I may not need to carry around my 70-200L as much.

Thing is, I shoot at 2.8 because I have to, not because I want to. A lot of the time I'm at an angle to the bride and groom and have to decide which one is in sharp focus.

Also, I don't need to upgrade my PC for another 3 years to handle 40mp Raws.

What I don't like is the drop in 3mp - I would of expected them to stay at 21mp and even though it is ony a small percentage smaller overall I do like my images to breathe and to have the option to crop later.
 
What worries me though is the ISO 100 performance. The 1Ds3 was totally unbeatable and because of this fear I'll be keeping hold of the 1Ds3 for portraits.

I never use the 5D2 apart from some small scale video and as a backup camera for my assistant. Even though the 5D2 shares the same sensor (apparently) to the 1Ds3 it's output isn't the same, colours are too warm and in my hands the weight is unbalanced with any serious glass attached to it. You can't push the RAW files anywhere near as much as the 1Ds3.

Going back to the 1Dx, all I wanted was better iso performance and a better screen. I would of been happy with that and Canon kinda overdelivered. Let's hope they did a good job. I'm one of 200 going to the Pro Solutions private hands on this coming Wednesday.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2011, 06:20:43 PM by wockawocka »
1DX, 5D3 and Hasselblad H Series owner.

Pedro Ramones

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Re: Feedback on 1D X from 1-series users?
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2011, 05:58:31 PM »
i agree with 1DsMKIII owners that are a bit disapointed, but i am absolutely sure Canon has not ended the 1Ds line up,because they never said they did ! and i don`t believe Canon will jump in another direction, at least, without the EF lenses, be it a MF or mirrorless camera.
i waited and awaited and waited for the 1DsMKIII replacement,but got to a point the 1DsMKII was gettin`really old and decided to go for the 1DMKIV and save a couple thousand euros,but image quality fares not better than the old 1DsMKII horse !...so i really hope that Canon replaces the 1DsMKIII soon, or i will have to dispatch the 1DMKIV and go for one of the last 1DsMKIII :)

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Re: Feedback on 1D X from 1-series users?
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2011, 05:58:31 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Feedback on 1D X from 1-series users?
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2011, 06:37:49 PM »
i am absolutely sure Canon has not ended the 1Ds line up,because they never said they did !

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but just to clarify, the Canon press release stated, "As the new leader in Canon’s arsenal of professional DSLRs, the EOS-1D X will be a high-speed multimedia juggernaut replacing both the EOS-1Ds Mark III and EOS-1D Mark IV models in Canon’s lineup."
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Stu_bert

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Re: Feedback on 1D X from 1-series users?
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2011, 07:20:59 PM »
I have a pair of second hand 1Ds MK III which I bought in preference to the 5D MK IIs.

What I wanted in the 1Dx is better high iso but only required up to around ISO 6400 (the MK III is showing it's age a little), better AF, and better Dynamic range. FPS is fine, just the ability to drive it at better speeds when using higher ISO.

So to be honest, the only downside is the f/8 AF removal, which I use on the 500mm f/4 with MK II 2xTC. To date, this has been sparingly, but the 2x MK III with good clean mid-range ISO (3200 to 6400 range) and thus f/11 would be a very useful combination I think.

18MP - it loses me 10% on the x and y, really nothing to worry about if the IQ is substantially better.

Having video in the same body is nice - being able to flip between stills and video without changing lenses will be useful (previously I used the 7D for this but that means a 3rd body). Articulated screen would also be better for video when there is little subject movement, but everyone is different.

Like most people I guess, I will wait to see what else Canon announces in the next 6 months, and of course to see how good the 1Dx is in comparison to the MK III and IV. The dilemma is around wanting 2 bodies with compatible accessories (batteries/chargers in the main). A 1Dx would go nice with either a MK IV or retaining a MK III, but then an updated 7D and 5D MK III would be I think significantly cheaper, allowing me to pick up the 200-400mm.

Bottom line - 1Dx is a good, solid replacement, and depending on what else Canon offers in the mid-range, may still end up in my bag.
If life is all about what you do in the time that you have, then photography is about the pictures you take not the kit that took it. Still it's fun to talk about the kit, present or future :)

rocketdesigner

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Re: Feedback on 1D X from 1-series users?
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2011, 08:58:14 PM »
So far, we've heard a lot of feedback, mainly complaints, from people who are not currently using 1-series bodies, and don't seriously plan to get one.  Sort of like people who say, "I was going to buy a Ferrari California, but now I'm not since they didn't put a V12 in it," and then just keep on driving their Toyota Camry, or at the most take out a 5-year loan on a newer model of the same car.


Nice elitist attitude.
So I guess Camry owners can't have opinions with regard to how the new Ferrari will effect their next Camry?
This IS an opinion message board, remember?
[ok, lets hear your real snappy comeback...)

Stu_bert

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Re: Feedback on 1D X from 1-series users?
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2011, 09:06:29 PM »
So far, we've heard a lot of feedback, mainly complaints, from people who are not currently using 1-series bodies, and don't seriously plan to get one.  Sort of like people who say, "I was going to buy a Ferrari California, but now I'm not since they didn't put a V12 in it," and then just keep on driving their Toyota Camry, or at the most take out a 5-year loan on a newer model of the same car.


Nice elitist attitude.
So I guess Camry owners can't have opinions with regard to how the new Ferrari will effect their next Camry?
This IS an opinion message board, remember?
[ok, lets hear your real snappy comeback...)

Yes you can - there are enough threads on this site to cover that. The OP asked specifically for those who already have one of the Pro bodies. If you check his sig. he does not and is therefore asking from those that do.

Sorry, don't do snappy at 2am  :D
If life is all about what you do in the time that you have, then photography is about the pictures you take not the kit that took it. Still it's fun to talk about the kit, present or future :)

Meh

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Re: Feedback on 1D X from 1-series users?
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2011, 09:50:23 PM »
So far, we've heard a lot of feedback, mainly complaints, from people who are not currently using 1-series bodies, and don't seriously plan to get one.  Sort of like people who say, "I was going to buy a Ferrari California, but now I'm not since they didn't put a V12 in it," and then just keep on driving their Toyota Camry, or at the most take out a 5-year loan on a newer model of the same car.


Nice elitist attitude.
So I guess Camry owners can't have opinions with regard to how the new Ferrari will effect their next Camry?
This IS an opinion message board, remember?
[ok, lets hear your real snappy comeback...)

Yes you can - there are enough threads on this site to cover that. The OP asked specifically for those who already have one of the Pro bodies. If you check his sig. he does not and is therefore asking from those that do.

Sorry, don't do snappy at 2am  :D

Well... neuro did ask for those opinions along with a smattering of a slam against those expressing opinions that may not intend to buy one.  He could have left out the whole Ferrari/Camry thing of course it would be less fun if he did.   Neuro gets some credit since we all know he's in the camp of those not currently using a 1 series as well as being in the camp of those that may in fact buy a 1DX.  I am in both those camps as well but for me not likely a 2012 purchase unless the retail price turns out to be below $6k which is doubtful.

So neuro, in your analogy was the Camry equivalent to any particular level of body or would even a 5D/5D2 be included.   Or maybe you were only taking a shot at people who talk like they want one but can't actually afford it?   Sorry, you may not have meant it but your comments come across a little elitist.  You might get credit for your honest viewpoints and credible statements about buying the 1DX as soon as it's available but you're also on record as stating that any piece of gear you want is "only X number of hours of consulting work" to you.

Great idea though to ask for more 1D users to weigh in.

« Last Edit: October 23, 2011, 10:30:38 PM by Meh »

macfly

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Re: Feedback on 1D X from 1-series users?
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2011, 12:13:53 AM »
I guess I've already said my piece on this, but since you asked I'll add my definitive feelings on it here.

I cancelled my standing order for the 1Dx and have sent my 1Ds Mklll to get a full overhaul and new sensor (scratched during cleaning in the field) to get me from here to the Nikon/Sony 36MP camera.

I knew things weren't good when Canon regressed so badly from the G10 to the G12, and feared that they might do the same with the EOS, and they did. They filled it full of stuff I don't need, and took away what I do. Canon have gone in wrong direction for me, so unless there is some surprise high rez ~40mp camera to come I'll be leaving the EOS 1 line behind for the first time since 1991. However I built my career on Nikons, so I don't feel bad about going back, and if Nikon don't make what I want then I'll buy who does.

Personally I really prefer the form factor of a 35mm EOS to anything, and my dream camera would be a ~45mp EOS. What I don't get is they already showed they know how to put 100mp on a sensor, so make like Nike and just do it!

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Re: Feedback on 1D X from 1-series users?
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2011, 12:13:53 AM »

Orangutan

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Re: Feedback on 1D X from 1-series users?
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2011, 12:54:10 AM »
and if Nikon don't make what I want then I'll buy who does.

What I don't get is they already showed they know how to put 100mp on a sensor, so make like Nike and just do it!

macfly, I'd like to make a couple uninformed guesses/observations.

1. Enough market research has been done by Canon and Nikon (and Sony) that probably everyone sees the market the same way now.  That wasn't the case until a year or two ago, but the 5D2 and Nikon D3S seemed to have told everyone where the divisions lie.  You can expect that whatever high MP camera Nikon puts out, Canon is likely to do about the same thing, give or take.  Canon's 5D2 replacement may not be 36MP as the D800 is rumored to be, but it'll be damned close.  Who knows, maybe higher?  Perhaps that'll do you, or maybe you need a 1D quality body.  It'll be a few months, at least, before that part of the market shakes out.  Canon probably isn't in a hurry to replace the 5D2 until it's got some real competition.

2. If the D1X needs two processors to do 18MP at 12fps, that same hardware will be needed to do 6fps on a 36MP sensor, or 3fps with one processor.  My guess is that Canon doesn't believe "the market" wants a high MP camera that does less than 5fps, so they may need to tweak the processor from the 1DX to push that many bits.  Think of the 1DX as the "dress rehearsal" for that 36MP camera you want. 

Apologies to Neuro for the thread digression.

aldvan

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Re: Feedback on 1D X from 1-series users?
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2011, 01:32:57 AM »
I don't think that asking just for opinions from people already owning a 1D series is a matter of elitism. Internet forums are full of third hand opinions, of harsh criticism by people that know something just because they had read other people opinions or just because it is easy to appear as great experts hiding behind the Internet virtuality.
Actually I could, now, sell myself as owner of a Phase One, gathering here and there some information, and contributing   to the birth of some urban legends... That happens on cars, bikes, cameras, planes, boats etc forums and it is one of the weakest point of the Internet.
By the way, I'm the owner of a (second hand) 1Ds MkIII and of  5D MkII.
Apart from the fact that I can't now invest in a new top range camera, particularly since I'm very happy about my present equipment, I have to say that the 1Dx appears to be a nice piece of technology but it is not what I need. A very cool and chic present opinion is to despise the need for very high resolution. That could be true for some kind of photography but not for other ones. Obviously nobody will accept high resolution if that means high noise or bad IQ, but I think that 18 Mpx are nevertheless not enough in many situations, when you need to crop your image for composition requirements or because you need, for professional/scientifical needs, to catch very small details.
After four years from 1Ds MkIII presentation, I'm sure that Canon could issue some more Mpx , improving, at the same time, IQ. The problem is that the World is going more and more generic and it is difficult to invest for very specific target. So you get a bit of everything, also of features you don't need. For instance, I don't need high fps, or a huge amount of AF points, I need as many Mpx as I can and the best pixel quality I can.
Conclusion. The 1Dx is a great camera for many people, but not for me...

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Re: Feedback on 1D X from 1-series users?
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2011, 01:32:57 AM »