October 24, 2014, 08:10:36 AM

Author Topic: UPDATE: EOS M2 Not Coming to North America  (Read 6736 times)

traveller

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Re: UPDATE: EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #45 on: March 02, 2014, 02:29:18 PM »
The only plus for mirrorless cams is the size, but with the existing Nikon- or Canonbayonett the advantage is gone. And new systems? Why? But I agree, if the ships turns and the mirrorless systems are getting better and better, the big two could fall down very deep.

Not necessarily, once you've dumped the mirror, there's a lot of room inside a legacy mount body where you could put lens elements. I suspect that this is what Canon and Nikon are thinking; why throw away your biggest advantage over your competitors by changing your lens mount? Sony has nothing to lose, the Alpha mount was a distant third place also-ran.

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Re: UPDATE: EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #45 on: March 02, 2014, 02:29:18 PM »

vscd

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Re: UPDATE: EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #46 on: March 02, 2014, 05:54:35 PM »
Quote
Not necessarily, once you've dumped the mirror, there's a lot of room inside a legacy mount body where you could put lens elements. I suspect that this is what Canon and Nikon are thinking; why throw away your biggest advantage over your competitors by changing your lens mount? Sony has nothing to lose, the Alpha mount was a distant third place also-ran.

This already exists, it's called EF-S, and the cameras are as big as a fullframe 6D f.e..
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Sanaraken

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Re: UPDATE: EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #47 on: March 02, 2014, 06:53:20 PM »
So your saying Canon is dumb? For being number 1 and best selling camera brand on earth. So you are smarter than their engineering and marketing departments.
Truth is that big, successful companies make big mistakes too. Look at Microsoft with Windows Vista and 8. Or with its Surface 1.0 tablets. Users told them they were bad products even before they were released, Microsoft didn't accept critics, delivered products that didn't sell and had to return on its steps and correct mistakes that were clearly visible to everybody, but to those in charge of the products. And there are many examples from many other companies.
The fact that Canon will not sell the M2 in Western markets shows it understood it's the wrong product for such markets - and some humble user can spot them and find better ideas. But it looks that someone at Canon is unwillingly to say "I was wrong - we need a different kind of product". Don't believe Canon engineering and marketing is populated by superhumans who never make mistakes. And I prefer a company that learns from mistakes, that one that stubbornly denies them.

Yes Canon is very sucessfull and know what they are doing. Thats why they dominate. Why would they come out with a really good mirrorless and I know they have the technology already. It will canabilize their sales on the DSLR market specially the Rebels.
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traveller

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Re: UPDATE: EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #48 on: March 03, 2014, 08:22:29 AM »
Quote
Not necessarily, once you've dumped the mirror, there's a lot of room inside a legacy mount body where you could put lens elements. I suspect that this is what Canon and Nikon are thinking; why throw away your biggest advantage over your competitors by changing your lens mount? Sony has nothing to lose, the Alpha mount was a distant third place also-ran.

This already exists, it's called EF-S, and the cameras are as big as a fullframe 6D f.e..

Probably because the difference is about 4mm, versus 26mm between EF and EF-M (measured slightly differently -i.e. flange back), and last time I looked the 100D was substantailly smaller than the 6D  :D

AvTvM

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Re: UPDATE: EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #49 on: March 03, 2014, 11:50:48 AM »
Yes Canon is very sucessfull and know what they are doing. Thats why they dominate. Why would they come out with a really good mirrorless and I know they have the technology already. It will canabilize their sales on the DSLR market specially the Rebels.

Why? Because otherwise Sony, Fujifilm, Panasonic, Olympus and all others will cannibalize their Rebels and all of their other DSLRs with the possible exception of action-oiented models (1D-X)?  ;D

traveller

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Re: UPDATE: EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #50 on: March 03, 2014, 12:37:37 PM »
Yes Canon is very sucessfull and know what they are doing. Thats why they dominate. Why would they come out with a really good mirrorless and I know they have the technology already. It will canabilize their sales on the DSLR market specially the Rebels.

Why? Because otherwise Sony, Fujifilm, Panasonic, Olympus and all others will cannibalize their Rebels and all of their other DSLRs with the possible exception of action-oiented models (1D-X)?  ;D

They haven't so far and growth in mirrorless in at least two major markets has reversed.

That's not to say that there's no future for mirrorless, nor that mirrorless isn't the future, just that it doesn't seem to be the present. Why would Canon and Nikon risk undermining their supremacy by bringing out 'pro' mirrorless cameras? Isn't that effectively endorsing their competitors' efforts? If Canon and Nikon dump their legacy mounts, what competitive advantage do they have over the likes of Sony or Fujifilm?

I think that's the crux of Canon's current dilemma. They didn't want to rock the boat by developing mirrorless, but evidently elements in their hierarchy felt the need to enter what was a growing market (hence EOS-M and Nikon 1). Now that the growth has died, so has Canon and Nikon's enthusiasm for their mirrorless systems.

Who knows how this will end up, maybe EOS-M will develop into a fully fledged system (especially if there is room for a full frame sensor in the specification), or the EF mount may start to evolve towards going mirrorless. I suspect that this isn't fully decided at Canon and will depend on what happens in the market this year. 

moreorless

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Re: UPDATE: EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #51 on: March 04, 2014, 07:23:59 AM »
Yes Canon is very sucessfull and know what they are doing. Thats why they dominate. Why would they come out with a really good mirrorless and I know they have the technology already. It will canabilize their sales on the DSLR market specially the Rebels.

Why? Because otherwise Sony, Fujifilm, Panasonic, Olympus and all others will cannibalize their Rebels and all of their other DSLRs with the possible exception of action-oiented models (1D-X)?  ;D

They haven't so far and growth in mirrorless in at least two major markets has reversed.

That's not to say that there's no future for mirrorless, nor that mirrorless isn't the future, just that it doesn't seem to be the present. Why would Canon and Nikon risk undermining their supremacy by bringing out 'pro' mirrorless cameras? Isn't that effectively endorsing their competitors' efforts? If Canon and Nikon dump their legacy mounts, what competitive advantage do they have over the likes of Sony or Fujifilm?

I think that's the crux of Canon's current dilemma. They didn't want to rock the boat by developing mirrorless, but evidently elements in their hierarchy felt the need to enter what was a growing market (hence EOS-M and Nikon 1). Now that the growth has died, so has Canon and Nikon's enthusiasm for their mirrorless systems.

Who knows how this will end up, maybe EOS-M will develop into a fully fledged system (especially if there is room for a full frame sensor in the specification), or the EF mount may start to evolve towards going mirrorless. I suspect that this isn't fully decided at Canon and will depend on what happens in the market this year.

Personally my feeling is that reduced flange distance on FF is simply much less of an advantage than on ASPC since your having to deal both with larger lenses for a larger image circle and long lenses to avoid more extreme light angles.

I think its notable that both Canon and Nikon have put most of their focus on FF devolpment over the last couple of years, more levels of body on offer and a lot of new lenses on offer whilst EF-S/DX lenses have been limted mostly to kit updates.

To me it looks like theres a real divide in the mirrorless market between east and west, in the former ultra small view finderless bodies make up most of the sales, in the latter theres a much smaller market focused on higher end bodies with viewfinders. My guess is if Canon come up with a higher end ASPC body then it will be released in the west.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 07:27:06 AM by moreorless »

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Re: UPDATE: EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #51 on: March 04, 2014, 07:23:59 AM »