October 23, 2014, 10:11:29 AM

Author Topic: Collecting gear  (Read 4520 times)

neuroanatomist

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Re: Collecting gear
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2014, 10:37:15 AM »
EOS 7D, EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM, 1/40 s, f/8, ISO 100, handheld 430EX II via OC-E3

Now that's cheating…  :P
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Re: Collecting gear
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2014, 10:37:15 AM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Collecting gear
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2014, 10:51:52 AM »
I didn't word that very well did I? Nothing new there. What I meant was if you have the 17 TS-E and a 1.4 TC there is very little practical need for a 24 TS-E, and if you have the 100 L Macro there is little practical need for the 135 f2.

As you, I do a lot of research before buying a lens after deciding I need one, I travel a lot so whilst having one of everything might be a nice idea (principally to a collector  :)  ) it is generally impractical. My research, specifically with regards actual resultant images, pointed me to get the 17TS-E (and a 1.4 TC) and the 100L Macro, even though I shot with a 135 f2 for many years in the manual focus FD system.

At the time I bought the TS-E 24L II, there was no convenient filter system for the 17mm version (e.g., the Wonderpana that's now available), so having front threads was a significant differentiator for me.  For tilt aficionados, the 24mm offers an extra 2° (8.5° vs. 6.5° max tilt).  I might pick up a TS-E 17mm at some point...

I find the 135L to have a significant advantage for shooting action in low light (e.g. gymnasiums) - the extra stop and faster AF make a noticeable difference in the resulting images.  But for portrait use, I agree that the 100L does just fine.
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JohnDizzo15

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Re: Collecting gear
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2014, 11:01:37 AM »
I didn't word that very well did I? Nothing new there. What I meant was if you have the 17 TS-E and a 1.4 TC there is very little practical need for a 24 TS-E, and if you have the 100 L Macro there is little practical need for the 135 f2.

As you, I do a lot of research before buying a lens after deciding I need one, I travel a lot so whilst having one of everything might be a nice idea (principally to a collector  :)  ) it is generally impractical. My research, specifically with regards actual resultant images, pointed me to get the 17TS-E (and a 1.4 TC) and the 100L Macro, even though I shot with a 135 f2 for many years in the manual focus FD system.

At the time I bought the TS-E 24L II, there was no convenient filter system for the 17mm version (e.g., the Wonderpana that's now available), so having front threads was a significant differentiator for me.  For tilt aficionados, the 24mm offers an extra 2° (8.5° vs. 6.5° max tilt).  I might pick up a TS-E 17mm at some point...

I find the 135L to have a significant advantage for shooting action in low light (e.g. gymnasiums) - the extra stop and faster AF make a noticeable difference in the resulting images.  But for portrait use, I agree that the 100L does just fine.

Agreed re both points re tse and the two tele lenses.

Beyond the advantages of focus speed and low light shooting, the DOF at 135/2 is something that the 100L can't touch in any lighting at any time and place. Like Neuro said, if all you are doing is portraiture in a controlled setting and you don't want/need f2, then the two lenses would be potentially very redundant. Otherwise, they are two completely different lenses generally used for two very different things (especially for people that have both).

tolusina

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Re: Collecting gear
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2014, 11:08:37 AM »
EOS 7D, EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM, 1/40 s, f/8, ISO 100, handheld 430EX II via OC-E3

Now that's cheating…  :P
I do what I can.........  :P
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privatebydesign

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Re: Collecting gear
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2014, 11:09:18 AM »
I didn't word that very well did I? Nothing new there. What I meant was if you have the 17 TS-E and a 1.4 TC there is very little practical need for a 24 TS-E, and if you have the 100 L Macro there is little practical need for the 135 f2.

As you, I do a lot of research before buying a lens after deciding I need one, I travel a lot so whilst having one of everything might be a nice idea (principally to a collector  :)  ) it is generally impractical. My research, specifically with regards actual resultant images, pointed me to get the 17TS-E (and a 1.4 TC) and the 100L Macro, even though I shot with a 135 f2 for many years in the manual focus FD system.

At the time I bought the TS-E 24L II, there was no convenient filter system for the 17mm version (e.g., the Wonderpana that's now available), so having front threads was a significant differentiator for me.  For tilt aficionados, the 24mm offers an extra 2° (8.5° vs. 6.5° max tilt).  I might pick up a TS-E 17mm at some point...

I find the 135L to have a significant advantage for shooting action in low light (e.g. gymnasiums) - the extra stop and faster AF make a noticeable difference in the resulting images.  But for portrait use, I agree that the 100L does just fine.

Oh I agree there are differentiators that make one choice more compelling than the other in each case, I am sure there are some happy 800mm owners out there even though the 600 and 1.4 is a "better" lens at 840. But those differentiators become far less about IQ and more to do with functionality or specific user applications.

As for the extra tilt on the 24, well it needs it, with focal length being a function of the tilt required the 17's 6.5º tilt actually gives you a shorter J distance than the 24's 8.5º. What is comparatively limiting is the 90mm TS-E with a mere 8º of tilt.
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neuroanatomist

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Re: Collecting gear
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2014, 11:12:33 AM »
As for the extra tilt on the 24, well it needs it, with focal length being a function of the tilt required the 17's 6.5º tilt actually gives you a shorter J distance than the 24's 8.5º.

Exactly - putting a 1.4x TC behind the TS-E 17mm gives you a 24mm lens with only 6.5° of tilt. 
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privatebydesign

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Re: Collecting gear
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2014, 11:19:30 AM »
.....the DOF at 135/2 is something that the 100L can't touch in any lighting at any time and place.....

John, with respect, that just isn't true.

We had a very acrimonious thread (from which I believe many posts went astray) on those two lenses, I actually posted examples from both wide open and not one person correctly identified the images, even very vocal f2 users. Sure if you take two images at the same time from the same place it is easy to tell, but use both on the same shoot naturally and it isn't, use both to their full advantage in different scenarios and it becomes impossible.

Faster focus for sports: 135.
IS for lower light or shutter speeds: 100.
Maximum light gathering potential: 135.
Close focusing: 100.

But these are not IQ differences, they are functionality differences or user requirements.
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Re: Collecting gear
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2014, 11:19:30 AM »

privatebydesign

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Re: Collecting gear
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2014, 11:21:07 AM »
As for the extra tilt on the 24, well it needs it, with focal length being a function of the tilt required the 17's 6.5º tilt actually gives you a shorter J distance than the 24's 8.5º.

Exactly - putting a 1.4x TC behind the TS-E 17mm gives you a 24mm lens with only 6.5° of tilt.

Ah. You are so much smarter than me......... ;)
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BL

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Re: Collecting gear
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2014, 11:41:45 AM »
There's one CR forum poster (can't remember the acct name atm) who has a profile comment that says "5% of the gear used 95% of the time."

So true...
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BLFPhoto

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Re: Collecting gear
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2014, 11:44:05 AM »
"and if you have the 100 L Macro there is little practical need for the 135 f2."


Clearly you've never tried to shoot sports or active situations with the 100mm L macro.  The difference in usability between it and the 135 L in such situations is night and day.  The focus limiter on the 100mm L macro only really serves to make it suitable for less active, non-macro shooting. 

And if shooting wide open for the same subject framing, the 135 L will do a far better job of dropping out the background if a shot requires it. 

It's a matter of horses for courses.  I currently have both lenses.  I can name several specific applications for both lenses where the choice of tool is unequivocal.   
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dickgrafixstop

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Re: Collecting gear
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2014, 01:03:41 PM »
Back to the original question - buy a new (fill in the blank) when you need it.  Many an excellent photographer
uses only one lens, but they use it incredibly well.   A standard camera package for many years was the body
and a 50mm lens.  Adventuresome types added a 35mm and/or a 90mm or135mm to meet their new needs. 
In there somewhere was a flash and a tripod - again depending upon the "need" to overcome some limitation in
a shooting situation.  A Rebel with the standard 18-55 zoom and a 55-250 telephoto can effectively handle most
peoples' "requirements" and in some cases it could be argued a better "travelling" combination than a 5DIII with
the 24-70L and 70/200L grouping - especially if you have to walk long distances.  No one but you can answer your question for you.  Good luck!

privatebydesign

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Re: Collecting gear
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2014, 01:59:12 PM »
"and if you have the 100 L Macro there is little practical need for the 135 f2."


Clearly you've never tried to shoot sports or active situations with the 100mm L macro.  The difference in usability between it and the 135 L in such situations is night and day.  The focus limiter on the 100mm L macro only really serves to make it suitable for less active, non-macro shooting. 

And if shooting wide open for the same subject framing, the 135 L will do a far better job of dropping out the background if a shot requires it. 

It's a matter of horses for courses.  I currently have both lenses.  I can name several specific applications for both lenses where the choice of tool is unequivocal.

No that is not what I said. The premise of the side conversation was overlapping functionality, the idea was that the 70-200 f2.8 IS MkII was also owned, with that in mind were I shooting a low light sports event I'd use the zoom, which focuses every bit as fast as the 135, and, with a newer body faster and more accurately, it is rare that the iso absolutely can't be upped one stop to get the shot (especially nowadays) and the 2.8 makes it more likely your subject will actually still be in focus when the exposure is actually taken.
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StudentOfLight

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Re: Collecting gear
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2014, 05:18:01 PM »
At the time I bought the TS-E 24L II, there was no convenient filter system for the 17mm version (e.g., the Wonderpana that's now available), so having front threads was a significant differentiator for me.  For tilt aficionados, the 24mm offers an extra 2° (8.5° vs. 6.5° max tilt).  I might pick up a TS-E 17mm at some point...

I find the 135L to have a significant advantage for shooting action in low light (e.g. gymnasiums) - the extra stop and faster AF make a noticeable difference in the resulting images.  But for portrait use, I agree that the 100L does just fine.
I was in the exact same predicament RE: 17 vs 24mm and came to the same decision. Also TS-E 17mm is top of my wishlist of currently available equipment. ;D

I'd argue that, the 17TS-E and 1.4 TC make the 24 TS-E close to redundant, and the 135 f2 and 100 Macro L are so similar I've yet to meet anybody that can reliably distinguish between images shot with either.
Many real estate shooters use both the TS-E 17 and 24mm. While the 17mm is a phenomenal lens it is not perfect. When you put on a TC the image degrades and you lose 1 stop of light so while you might get 24mm focal length you most certainly do not get a TS-E 24mm f/3.5 II.

Difference in IQ between TS-E 17mm with 1.4x-III and  TS-E 24mm II is not negligible. Just take a look at sample crops...
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=486&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=487&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=3&APIComp=1

In terms of extending the 17mm, I would think that you'd probably be better off putting it on a crop body to retain your f/4 max aperture and avoid TC-IQ-degradation but then as side effects you'd be closer to 28mm and you'd lose some high-ISO noise performance.
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Re: Collecting gear
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2014, 05:18:01 PM »

aussielearner

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Re: Collecting gear
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2014, 05:20:55 PM »
What are you taking pictures of?  2 years ago I started off with a Canon 20D purchased from eBay.  I bought a 50mm f1.8 and a 28-105mm f3.5-4.5

I purchased my first dSLR soon after the birth of my first child as I was finding my Powershot G6 just wasn't cutting it for me any more.

I still wasn't happy with my pictures from the 50mm f1.8 (most of them were indoor shots of a baby, portraits of family holding the baby).  It wasn't until I purchased a Speedlite 430 EXII that my pictures suddenly transformed.  By using bounce flash I was able to light my subjects more evenly and use higher shutter speeds.

This was the single greatest purchase that improved my photography at the time.

In the last 6 months I've sold the 28-105 (it isn't great for indoor photography and is a bit soft on my equipment) and gotten myself a Sigma 18-35 f1.8 and upgraded to a Canon 40D.

RustyTheGeek

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Re: Collecting gear
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2014, 06:55:11 PM »
In the last 6 months I've sold the 28-105 (it isn't great for indoor photography and is a bit soft on my equipment) and gotten myself a Sigma 18-35 f1.8 and upgraded to a Canon 40D.

Ahhhh, the wonderful and sweet 40D!  Love that camera!  Love it!  May it serve you well for a long time to come my friend!!  Heck, while you're at it, you should find a great and wonderful 5D Classic while you're at it.  Another amazing body for a great price now!
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Re: Collecting gear
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2014, 06:55:11 PM »