July 24, 2014, 11:58:35 AM

Author Topic: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]  (Read 26893 times)

candyman

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Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2014, 01:58:15 PM »
Anyone else sick and tired of seeing threads about 7D MK II ???


Well CR1's about the 7D MKII are getting boring  ::)


Give us CR3!  8)
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Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2014, 01:58:15 PM »

Robert Welch

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Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2014, 02:12:52 PM »
@UNFOCUSED, that is an interesting assessment, I think you have some good points.

Yes, these topics on the 7D2 are getting old, but that's only because it's taking so long for the camera to come out. Fair to say it's a highly anticipated camera, we'll see if it lives up to that anticipation. I find the report that it will have dual card slots is interesting, it will be the first non-pro camera (other than the 5D3) that Canon has included dual card slots. I guess if it does, then Canon will consider it the equal of the 5D3, or maybe what I'd call the 'Quasi-pro' level camera, higher than the pro-sumer, but not quite top-o-line model. Anyway, that does pose the question, who is this camera for? We'll see then it's released, and what the camera has included. There is a wide range of possible end users Canon could see for this camera, and I will be very interested to see who that winds up being.

Don Haines

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Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2014, 02:13:33 PM »
I have been thinking about this lately and am going to make a controversial prediction:

I believe the 7DII will have the highest resolution of any Canon DSLR and I think it is entirely possible that future APS-C bodies may actually end up with more resolution than high-end full frame DSLRs.

Reasoning: The strength of the APS-C format (in addition to cost) is the perceived extra "reach" of the 1.6 crop factor. Crop sensors will never match the high ISO performance or dynamic range of a full frame sensor. But, what Canon demonstrated with the 70D is that they could increase the resolution of the sensor without sacrificing ISO performance or dynamic range.

The higher resolution 70D sensor performs at least as well as the 7D sensor in these areas. And, some argue it actually performs slightly better.

I am fully aware of the argument that a full frame sensor can be cropped to the same framing as an APS-C sensor without losing much perceived resolution.

But, that argument breaks down in cases where the photographer is distance limited and must crop the crop, so to speak. I'll leave the math to those who are more adept than I am, but just point out that a 24mp APS-C sensor can have half of its pixels cropped out and still produce a 12mp image.

Focusing on higher resolution at the top end of the APS-C line allows manufacturers to better differentiate the two formats for enthusiasts and professionals. Both formats function just fine for general purposes, but if you want to shoot under the most challenging lighting situations, full frame is the better bet. If you are a portrait or studio photographer shooting under controlled conditions, the larger format is better.

But, if you are a nature photographer or a sports photographer and you need to reach as deeply into the scene as possible without getting eaten by a bear, drowned chasing waterfowl or crushed by a 250 lb player, and need to do it at 8-12 fps, then you need a high-resolution, high performance crop frame camera that has sufficient headroom for you to crop even further when necessary.

I've long said Canon and Nikon don't want to convert everyone to full frame, they want instead to sell everyone two bodies. One way to do that is to play to the strengths of each format and differentiate them at the high end.

We all know that the worldwide camera market is struggling. Nikon and Canon need to find ways to increase their sales. It's far easier to get an existing customer to buy more than it is to find a new customer. Differentiating the two DSLR formats offers the hope of greatly expanding sales using the existing base of customers.

Makes sense to me....

Give me a 25-30 megapixel crop camera for more pixels on target and give me a 16-20 megapixel FF camera for 3 stops better ISO performance... I would rather have two good tools than one mediocre general purpose tool.
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Obi-Wan-YJ

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Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2014, 02:42:42 PM »
The camera will have dual memory card slots, CF and SD. Retaining CF is a big deal and will make a lot of people happy.

How likely is this to actually happen?  The 1D and 5D lines are the only ones to have dual card slots.  Even the 6D uses just SD cards, which I can't stand due to how slow and flimsy they are.

I've got a 7D and 50D, and will probably replace the 50D with a 7D2 when it arrives.  I'm also getting tight on CF card space, and would like to buy a new 32GB CF card before a trip in a few weeks... but not if it'll be obsolete with the new 7D2.  I was really hoping we'd have a more concrete announcement by now.

Given than the 6D now uses SD cards, how likely is it that the 7D2 will use CF cards?  Will they abandon the 7D1 users and cater to those upgrading from consumer bodies by using SD cards?  I'm sure speed is also a consideration, since that will be a big selling point of the 7D2 over the 70D or 6D.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2014, 02:49:10 PM by Obi-Wan-YJ »
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Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2014, 03:25:14 PM »
The camera will have dual memory card slots, CF and SD. Retaining CF is a big deal and will make a lot of people happy.

How likely is this to actually happen?  The 1D and 5D lines are the only ones to have dual card slots.  Even the 6D uses just SD cards, which I can't stand due to how slow and flimsy they are.

I've got a 7D and 50D, and will probably replace the 50D with a 7D2 when it arrives.  I'm also getting tight on CF card space, and would like to buy a new 32GB CF card before a trip in a few weeks... but not if it'll be obsolete with the new 7D2.  I was really hoping we'd have a more concrete announcement by now.

Given than the 6D now uses SD cards, how likely is it that the 7D2 will use CF cards?  Will they abandon the 7D1 users and cater to those upgrading from consumer bodies by using SD cards?  I'm sure speed is also a consideration, since that will be a big selling point of the 7D2 over the 70D or 6D.

The choice between using CF or SD cards will be determined not only by how much this rumored camera will be positioned for professional users, but the maturity of SD cards as determined by Canon. If this camera will indeed get CF and SD card slots, this will make it comparable to 5D Mark III, which I don't expect it will be. So in my opinion this CR1 rumor is not likely to become a reality, because as you stated the 6D uses just SD cards, so the 7D will likely share that trait, if it is considered as being somewhat restricted in comparison to a 5D Mark III. This logic may not be found appealing by many, but Canon may nevertheless use such kind of a distinction in card support.

Don Haines

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Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2014, 04:15:31 PM »
The camera will have dual memory card slots, CF and SD. Retaining CF is a big deal and will make a lot of people happy.

How likely is this to actually happen?  The 1D and 5D lines are the only ones to have dual card slots.  Even the 6D uses just SD cards, which I can't stand due to how slow and flimsy they are.

I've got a 7D and 50D, and will probably replace the 50D with a 7D2 when it arrives.  I'm also getting tight on CF card space, and would like to buy a new 32GB CF card before a trip in a few weeks... but not if it'll be obsolete with the new 7D2.  I was really hoping we'd have a more concrete announcement by now.

Given than the 6D now uses SD cards, how likely is it that the 7D2 will use CF cards?  Will they abandon the 7D1 users and cater to those upgrading from consumer bodies by using SD cards?  I'm sure speed is also a consideration, since that will be a big selling point of the 7D2 over the 70D or 6D.

The choice between using CF or SD cards will be determined not only by how much this rumored camera will be positioned for professional users, but the maturity of SD cards as determined by Canon. If this camera will indeed get CF and SD card slots, this will make it comparable to 5D Mark III, which I don't expect it will be. So in my opinion this CR1 rumor is not likely to become a reality, because as you stated the 6D uses just SD cards, so the 7D will likely share that trait, if it is considered as being somewhat restricted in comparison to a 5D Mark III. This logic may not be found appealing by many, but Canon may nevertheless use such kind of a distinction in card support.
Why can't the 7D2 be a pro-level APS-C camera?
The 7D was pro-level... Why not the 7D2?

and please don't say "because it's not FF", Pro-level is a whole lot more than sensor....
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Tugela

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Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2014, 04:23:30 PM »
The camera will have dual memory card slots, CF and SD. Retaining CF is a big deal and will make a lot of people happy.

How likely is this to actually happen?  The 1D and 5D lines are the only ones to have dual card slots.  Even the 6D uses just SD cards, which I can't stand due to how slow and flimsy they are.

I've got a 7D and 50D, and will probably replace the 50D with a 7D2 when it arrives.  I'm also getting tight on CF card space, and would like to buy a new 32GB CF card before a trip in a few weeks... but not if it'll be obsolete with the new 7D2.  I was really hoping we'd have a more concrete announcement by now.

Given than the 6D now uses SD cards, how likely is it that the 7D2 will use CF cards?  Will they abandon the 7D1 users and cater to those upgrading from consumer bodies by using SD cards?  I'm sure speed is also a consideration, since that will be a big selling point of the 7D2 over the 70D or 6D.

The choice between using CF or SD cards will be determined not only by how much this rumored camera will be positioned for professional users, but the maturity of SD cards as determined by Canon. If this camera will indeed get CF and SD card slots, this will make it comparable to 5D Mark III, which I don't expect it will be. So in my opinion this CR1 rumor is not likely to become a reality, because as you stated the 6D uses just SD cards, so the 7D will likely share that trait, if it is considered as being somewhat restricted in comparison to a 5D Mark III. This logic may not be found appealing by many, but Canon may nevertheless use such kind of a distinction in card support.

The 5D will likely be getting an upgrade to mark 4 by the end of the year or early 2015, so I doubt they are going to cripple the new 7D in order not to compete with an older 5D model. The 7D is the top of the line crop sensor camera in their lineup, so if it is released it will probably come with state of the art features for that sensor size. Remember, the features included in it have to be sufficient for the camera to remain competitive in its market space for three years, not a few months.

In all probability the 7D2 will outperform the 5D3 with regard to pretty everything except sensor crop size until the mark 4 arrives.

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Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2014, 04:23:30 PM »

Don Haines

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Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2014, 04:28:56 PM »
I find the "hybrid viewfinder" to be very intriguing.... put dual-pixel AF and hybrid viewfinder together and what do you get? Do you end up with 20 million more AF points than the 1DX? Do you get to recognize objects and track them? Is AFMA toast?

The 70D is the tip of the iceberg..... it barely scratches the capabilities of Dual Pixel... there are interesting times ahead!
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dufflover

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Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #23 on: March 11, 2014, 05:28:48 PM »
I'm not sensing anything too special. Canon "got lucky" when Nikon left the D7100 shot buffer crippled otherwise feature-wise, it has the better sensor, still reasonable fps and decent AF.
Given the time Canon have had, I would say it's an expectation that it's finally time some of their lagging areas like DR are brought up to date. To put it more bluntly, it would be very disappointing (as some people were in the 70D) if now it wasn't matching the current competition of crop resolution (~24MP) with not-so-obvious noise patterns and higher DR (surely at least equal to the current competition, already years old)
Hurry up Canon and do something with your sensors! :P

MichaelHodges

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Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #24 on: March 11, 2014, 07:39:20 PM »

Why can't the 7D2 be a pro-level APS-C camera?
The 7D was pro-level... Why not the 7D2?

and please don't say "because it's not FF", Pro-level is a whole lot more than sensor....


"Pro" has always meant "top IQ", IMHO. This is even more apparent in the smart phone era.

wickidwombat

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Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2014, 07:41:52 PM »
since getting the tamron 150-600 i'm actually interested in this camera now  ;D
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Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2014, 08:30:54 PM »
Hopefully Canon is looking at competition like the Pentax K-3 and deciding which features it needs to match or better.  I'm not trying to sell Pentax here (or get booed off the forum), but which of these K-3 features would you be willing to give-up in a new 7DII?  I'm hoping they are all there and perhaps bested by the 7DII.

K-3:  24.3 megapixel, 8.3 frames/sec, ISO 51,200, 27 point AF w/25 cross type sensors, focus peaking, fully weather sealed, dual cards (both SD... Canon can do better here), switchable pseudo-AA filter (interesting to see how well this works in the real world), 3.2 inch LCD, pop-up flash (only 1/180th sync. ... come on, Olympus can do 1/320 with their built-in).  Oh BTW, cost is $1295 body only.  (This feature I really like... doubt Canon is thinking that way however!)

Lots of Canon stuff -- FD, EF, EF-L, EF-S.  Olympus stuff too

bardamu

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Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2014, 08:52:22 PM »
In September last year my 550D - my first and only DSLR at the time - suffered a malfunction and I needed to get something new.  I had 80k actuations on it so it wasn't a big deal.  Cam still works fine in most respects, but it was no longer up to being my only camera.

When I enquired at a local camera store about a 7D the guy said to me "What would you want a 7D for?  The 7D mark ii will come out soon, you should wait."  At which point I mentioned that I needed to keep shooting and, erm, what was I supposed to shoot with in the meantime??

That struck me as 1) a very strange thing for a salesperson to say and 2) (since I monitor CR) probably inaccurate.  Good thing I didn't take his advice and sit around waiting for the 7D ii - 6 months later and still nothing on the horizon.  Nikon Rumors just noted that the D400 is also thought to be a long way off, in fact they might just do a D7200 instead.  I now have a 70D, but I might still be interested in a 7D ii depending on how it turns out (if at all).

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Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2014, 08:52:22 PM »

pwp

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Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2014, 08:53:30 PM »
...the strength of the APS-C format (in addition to cost) is the perceived extra "reach" of the 1.6 crop factor. Crop sensors will never match the high ISO performance or dynamic range of a full frame sensor. But, what Canon demonstrated with the 70D is that they could increase the resolution of the sensor without sacrificing ISO performance or dynamic range...
Canon will find plenty of sales to photographers who are genuinely missing the somewhat lamented x1.3 APS-H sensor. Our 1D Mk3 and Mk4 bodies are reaching astronomical shutter counts, a premium, high performance 7DII would go a long way to satisfying the APS-H mob. They'll never last as long as a 1-Series which routinely run perfectly and reliably with several hundred thousand clicks on the clock, but at half or one-third the price...who cares? If half the rumored features show up on the final shipping 7DII, I'll probably get two of them in the first week.

-pw

bardamu

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Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2014, 09:01:52 PM »
For people wanting 24MP in the 7D ii to match Nikon etc, remember that Canon's crop-sensor crop factor is 1.6 whilst Nikon's is 1.5.  So at about 21MP the Canon would already have the same pixel density.

I wonder if Canon would ever consider moving to a 1.5 sensor to match Nikon and Pentax, if only for the 7D ii and maybe 80D lines.  They could release some version ii EF-S lenses with a larger image circle.

Wait, version ii EF-S lenses??  Maybe in the year 2035...

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Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2014, 09:01:52 PM »