December 20, 2014, 02:25:59 AM

Author Topic: Evolution or the murder of art?  (Read 1752 times)

Sabaki

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Evolution or the murder of art?
« on: March 18, 2014, 03:28:00 PM »
Disclaimer: This post is totally and utterly speculation and not based on actual developer announcements.

If the burst/frame count of cameras one day reaches and potentially exceeds 24 frames per second and photography possibly becomes an exercise of selecting frames from what is essentially a video reel, how would YOU, as a photographic artist feel about that?

I have a feeling that this advancement may initially raise it's head in camera phones for some strange reason.

Quite interested to hear opinions on this
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Evolution or the murder of art?
« on: March 18, 2014, 03:28:00 PM »

slclick

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Re: Evolution or the murder of art?
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2014, 03:30:43 PM »
It's no longer spray and pray but spray and pick. Still, no thanks
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chris_w_digits

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Re: Evolution or the murder of art?
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2014, 03:38:50 PM »
As technology improves, it is inevitable that this will become the case.   I'm not saying it will happen quickly, but if technology advances to where the frame rate can be 24 fps and a full RAW image can be captured for each frame, we'll be there.   For the masses, once everything is shooting 1920x1080, stills from that are good enough for the masses.   The disadvantage is you can't make better adjustments like you can with RAW and the frame will be from a compressed video stream which hurts the quality more, but still, we're talking about the masses who are content with the generally bad quality of phone cameras and who are content with the 612 by 612 low quality shots using Instagram.    For professional use, it's a long way off -- maybe 10 years or more.

mackguyver

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Re: Evolution or the murder of art?
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2014, 03:51:59 PM »
Somewhere out there are a couple of videos on this topic - one from a stills guy who shoots a skier and talks about needing more control (but thinks this is coming) and another with two guys testing various shoots but coming away with the feeling that the shutter speed for smooth video is too slow for most stills work when subjects are moving much.  Then there's this: Photos shot on Red, which makes you think twice, at least for portrait work.

ajfotofilmagem

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Re: Evolution or the murder of art?
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2014, 04:31:59 PM »
There are people who will do so in the future. Not me. The careful framing, shutter speed, depth of field, and other parameters have specific needs in each moment. Make dozens of photos to use one, and discard the vast majority, it seems stupid. While this may be necessary for scientific use.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2014, 04:35:18 PM by ajfotofilmagem »

Tugela

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Re: Evolution or the murder of art?
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2014, 04:46:32 PM »
Originally exposures took a huge amount of preparation to take the picture, and then to develop it.

Did it cease to be photography when SLRs were invented, or later on DSLRs?

A photograph is still a photograph, composition is still composition. The only difference with high frame rates is that you have more options for honing in on that perfect shot, the same as all the other progress and developments in photography since the invention of the original camera. How is this any different?

Drizzt321

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Re: Evolution or the murder of art?
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2014, 04:46:52 PM »
Somewhere out there are a couple of videos on this topic - one from a stills guy who shoots a skier and talks about needing more control (but thinks this is coming) and another with two guys testing various shoots but coming away with the feeling that the shutter speed for smooth video is too slow for most stills work when subjects are moving much.  Then there's this: Photos shot on Red, which makes you think twice, at least for portrait work.

Agree with this. Even if you've got 120fps, that equates (with a 180-degree shutter rule) to 1/240s, which is ok for lots of general purpose photo work (say, most weddings?), but not any sort of action photography.
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Re: Evolution or the murder of art?
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2014, 04:46:52 PM »

tolusina

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Re: Evolution or the murder of art?
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2014, 07:54:08 PM »
Meh.
If a high burst rate is what it takes for an individual to consider themself a photographer, then that's what they should use.
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Steve

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Re: Evolution or the murder of art?
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2014, 07:58:28 PM »
Originally exposures took a huge amount of preparation to take the picture, and then to develop it.

Did it cease to be photography when SLRs were invented, or later on DSLRs?

A photograph is still a photograph, composition is still composition. The only difference with high frame rates is that you have more options for honing in on that perfect shot, the same as all the other progress and developments in photography since the invention of the original camera. How is this any different?

It will just raise the bar on what is considered a good or acceptable photograph, just like autofocus, IS, high ISO's, high burst rates and digital post process have all done.  Look at nature photography from 25-30 years ago vs today.  Stuff that used to be NatGeo level in the 70's wouldn't make the cut for a third rate webzine amateur contest.  Same for sports, journalism, weddings or anything else really except for maybe landscape or fine art where large format still rules.

9VIII

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Re: Evolution or the murder of art?
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2014, 08:36:36 PM »
I was going to make fun of photography as an "art", but I'll hold back for now.

On topic: I can't wait for 120fps bursts to pick my BIF images from.
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slclick

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Re: Evolution or the murder of art?
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2014, 10:05:15 PM »
I was going to make fun of photography as an "art", but I'll hold back for now.

On topic: I can't wait for 120fps bursts to pick my BIF images from.

I find it far more easy to make fun of a person who needs 120 fps to be considered a photographer than photography as an Art form, which hasn't been debatable for over 100 years.
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Lawliet

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Re: Evolution or the murder of art?
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2014, 11:47:45 PM »
I'm not saying it will happen quickly, but if technology advances to where the frame rate can be 24 fps and a full RAW image can be captured for each frame, we'll be there.

Well, Nikons V3 can capture 60 full res raw files, i.e similar 18MP to the 1Dx or the run of the mill APS-C cam, per second, or 20fps with tracking AF. So much for "quickly"  ;D

But how much effect that can have on photography is very genre dependent. For sports its quite an advancement. For anything planned not so much. And once you bring flash into the game its at least massively expensive (get me some Scoros, and that's w/o requiring high power) or way beyond that. Replace that <10kg mobile unit or some flashguns with multiple trailers filled with gear... 8)

As for picking frames from a video...both technical details like motion blur and artisitic&narrative decisions are often mutually exclusive, or at least not exactly helping each other. That's for absolute minimal budget/low quality, otherwise definitely unavailable material or fools.

9VIII

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Re: Evolution or the murder of art?
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2014, 02:13:39 AM »
I was going to make fun of photography as an "art", but I'll hold back for now.

On topic: I can't wait for 120fps bursts to pick my BIF images from.

I find it far more easy to make fun of a person who needs 120 fps to be considered a photographer than photography as an Art form, which hasn't been debatable for over 100 years.

Sorry, I'm hardcore utilitarian. The camera is an image recording tool, and what name people apply to its use really doesn't concern me.

That being said I probably shouldn't have posted on the thread, but it was also somewhat tongue in cheek, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and if I'm taking pictures that don't serve a practical use then I'm effectively creating art. Thus, no matter how much the concept clashes with my ideals, my opinion on the subject still qualifies as coming from an "artist".
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Re: Evolution or the murder of art?
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2014, 02:13:39 AM »

Grumbaki

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Re: Evolution or the murder of art?
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2014, 06:36:56 AM »
Eye, brain and location will still be the 3 main factors.

But maybe i'm overly into photojournalism.

mackguyver

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Re: Evolution or the murder of art?
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2014, 10:11:04 AM »
I wonder if film photographers had this same discussion (offline) when "moving picture" cameras started becoming popular...

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Re: Evolution or the murder of art?
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2014, 10:11:04 AM »