October 30, 2014, 03:14:29 PM

Author Topic: 1DX and focusing screens  (Read 8352 times)

Isurus

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 71
    • View Profile
1DX and focusing screens
« on: October 30, 2011, 02:19:42 PM »
Has any one seen any info on whether or not interchangeable focus screens will be available for the 1DX?  Given that the viewfinder has an electronic overlay like the 7D, I'm guessing we will be stuck with the standard focusing screen like the 7D as well.  This will be unfortunate for those of us that manually focus a lot, as the standard focusing screen blows for it and is damn near impossible to use at large apertures.

Any word on this?

canon rumors FORUM

1DX and focusing screens
« on: October 30, 2011, 02:19:42 PM »

Picsfor

  • Guest
Re: 1DX and focusing screens
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2011, 03:57:39 PM »
I have 2 5D2's that are both fitted with the custom grid focusing screen.

I know from using the 1DX, that things are a little different.

Let's be more than clear on the capabilities to focus on things. From my small test (10-15mins), it didn't care what aperture you used, and it didn't care how dark it was. It had 61 points, 41 of those are cross hairs and 5 are double cross hairs. AF is a totally different beast to anything you've used before.

Honestly, not quite sure why the ability to MF would be a purchasing issue on choosing this camera. For MF, i would choose the 5D2 every time - simple really - £3k cheaper at least - and 3 more 3mp

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • ********
  • Posts: 14787
    • View Profile
Re: 1DX and focusing screens
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2011, 07:05:36 PM »
@Picsfor - "who needs MF, and if you do, just use a different camera," nice, helpful answer. Also, the AF system never cares what aperture you use, only the max aperture of the lens. An f/2.8 max aperture activates the most precise points, but accuracy is driven by the f/2.8 baseline for triangulation by the AF system, even with an f/1.2 lens. That means MF has the potential to be more accurate with a lens faster than f/2.8, if you can install a focusing screen that shows the true DoF of a lens faster than f/2.5 (the approximate cutoff of the standard focus screen).

@Isurus - should be possible. The Canon USA page on the 1D X lists five different focusing screens (and the popup compatibility lists do include the 1D X).
EOS 1D X, EOS M, and lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

Isurus

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 71
    • View Profile
Re: 1DX and focusing screens
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2011, 11:17:40 PM »

Awesome!  Thanks for that.  Was somewhat concerned that some of my fast MF-only glass would become unusable like it is on the 7D, but it looks like it will be ok on the 1Dx based on your link.

@Picsfor - I prefer the build of the 1D series significantly over the 5D series.  Additionally, I'm excited about the new sensor, specifically using it in low light situations where I typically prefer to use manual focus (even though AF systems are getting better in low light settings, I still find MF quicker and more accurate).  Also, it would be a pity for fast Zeiss glass to be essentially unusable at max aperture.


@Picsfor - "who needs MF, and if you do, just use a different camera," nice, helpful answer. Also, the AF system never cares what aperture you use, only the max aperture of the lens. An f/2.8 max aperture activates the most precise points, but accuracy is driven by the f/2.8 baseline for triangulation by the AF system, even with an f/1.2 lens. That means MF has the potential to be more accurate with a lens faster than f/2.8, if you can install a focusing screen that shows the true DoF of a lens faster than f/2.5 (the approximate cutoff of the standard focus screen).

@Isurus - should be possible. The Canon USA page on the 1D X lists five different focusing screens (and the popup compatibility lists do include the 1D X).

dr croubie

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1400
  • Too many photos, too little time.
    • View Profile
Re: 1DX and focusing screens
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2011, 04:10:12 AM »
Awesome!  Thanks for that.  Was somewhat concerned that some of my fast MF-only glass would become unusable like it is on the 7D, but it looks like it will be ok on the 1Dx based on your link.

I've got a lot of MF lenses on my 7D, and don't have too much trouble with them. Even the EF 50/1.8 i was using in a really dark room and AF wasn't working too well so I switched to MF and had a lot better success (yes, with the poor excuse for a focus ring that is the niftyfifty).
Still, even for the 7D you can get 3rd-party focussing screens, i'm too scared to do it myself (maybe in a few years' time when i've got my money's worth from that body).

But yeah, 1DX has changeable screens as neuro said. Whether they're user-installable is another thing...
Too much gear, too little space.
Gear Photos

PeterJ

  • Canon 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 342
    • View Profile
Re: 1DX and focusing screens
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2011, 05:49:54 AM »
That means MF has the potential to be more accurate with a lens faster than f/2.8, if you can install a focusing screen that shows the true DoF of a lens faster than f/2.5 (the approximate cutoff of the standard focus screen).
I'd seen your explanation of that some time ago neuro and meant to say thanks. When I first got my 7D and was playing with the new features (compared to my previous camera) I tried the DOF preview on a 50mm lens. I only tried some of the wider apertures where I would have found it more useful and when I couldn't see a difference through the viewfinder put it down as a useless feature and never touched it again ::).

Out of interest what's the design decision that makes them go that way, is it because otherwise the view would be too dim with say an f/5.6 lens? Conversely are there reasons once you've installed a new focusing screen where you'd want to remove it for some lenses?

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • ********
  • Posts: 14787
    • View Profile
Re: 1DX and focusing screens
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2011, 06:32:25 AM »
Out of interest what's the design decision that makes them go that way, is it because otherwise the view would be too dim with say an f/5.6 lens? Conversely are there reasons once you've installed a new focusing screen where you'd want to remove it for some lenses?

Yes and yes.  The stock screens are designed to be brighter between f/3.5 and f/5.6.  Most of the lenses Canon (and Nikon, and everyone else) sells are f/3.5-5.6 or f/4-5.6 zooms ('most' is based on numbers of lenses sold).  With an Eg-S screen (for fast aperture lenses) in my 5DII, the viewfinder at f/5.6 is quite dim.  So, if youwant to MF using a fast prime, you change to a screen designed for that, but if you want to change to a lens that hits f/5.6, you change back to the stock screen.  I find an f/4 lens to be ok with the Eg-S (noticeably dimmer than with the stock screen, but usable).
EOS 1D X, EOS M, and lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

canon rumors FORUM

Re: 1DX and focusing screens
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2011, 06:32:25 AM »

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • ********
  • Posts: 14787
    • View Profile
Re: 1DX and focusing screens
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2011, 06:42:41 AM »
Awesome!  Thanks for that.  Was somewhat concerned that some of my fast MF-only glass would become unusable like it is on the 7D, but it looks like it will be ok on the 1Dx based on your link.

...Also, it would be a pity for fast Zeiss glass to be essentially unusable at max aperture.

Glad to help.  Further, the specs page actually states, "Focusing Screen: Interchangeable"  So, definitely ok.

I love my Zeiss lenses...I have about 40 of them!  But...they're objectives for the microscopes in my labs, and it's a pity that none will mount on my dSLRs, much less focus...   :P
« Last Edit: October 31, 2011, 06:51:13 AM by neuroanatomist »
EOS 1D X, EOS M, and lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

aldvan

  • Guest
Re: 1DX and focusing screens
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2011, 09:02:56 AM »
That 1DX focusing screen is interchangeable was evident since the first technical images were available, since it showed the small handle necessary for removing and manipulating it.
I would like to remind you that different focusing screens are necessary not only to comply different lens apertures, but also for different field of photography. It should be unthinkable, for instance, not having the change to get a grid for architectural photography or a x-y scale for micro...

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • ********
  • Posts: 14787
    • View Profile
Re: 1DX and focusing screens
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2011, 09:42:07 AM »
I would like to remind you that different focusing screens are necessary not only to comply different lens apertures, but also for different field of photography. It should be unthinkable, for instance, not having the change to get a grid for architectural photography or x-y scale for micro...

Except that the translucent LCD next to the focusing screen can provide a grid display, obviating the need for a grid focusing screen.  In theory, Canon could implement a micrometer scale on the viewfinder LCD, too.  But there's no LCD substitute for a brighte screen, or for the split/micro-prism focusing aids.
EOS 1D X, EOS M, and lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

dilbert

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 3111
    • View Profile
Re: 1DX and focusing screens
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2011, 12:09:51 PM »
For anything that involves mounting on a tripod, why wouldn't you manually focus via live view?

aldvan

  • Guest
Re: 1DX and focusing screens
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2011, 01:05:53 PM »
I would like to remind you that different focusing screens are necessary not only to comply different lens apertures, but also for different field of photography. It should be unthinkable, for instance, not having the change to get a grid for architectural photography or x-y scale for micro...

Except that the translucent LCD next to the focusing screen can provide a grid display, obviating the need for a grid focusing screen.  In theory, Canon could implement a micrometer scale on the viewfinder LCD, too.  But there's no LCD substitute for a brighte screen, or for the split/micro-prism focusing aids.

I owned a 7D for some months, so I know what an LCD generated grid is... But you need to have the camera turned on, and the spiderweb lightness of an engraved grid is much less invasive than an LCD generated one...

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • ********
  • Posts: 14787
    • View Profile
Re: 1DX and focusing screens
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2011, 01:28:13 PM »
Preliminarily, at least, the grid 1D X's "transparent LCD" looks much less obtrusive than the grid on the 7D's "transmissive LCD":

7D:


1D X:
EOS 1D X, EOS M, and lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

canon rumors FORUM

Re: 1DX and focusing screens
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2011, 01:28:13 PM »

keith_cooper

  • Guest
Re: 1DX and focusing screens
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2011, 02:07:37 PM »
For anything that involves mounting on a tripod, why wouldn't you manually focus via live view?

Because I sometimes forget my glasses when I'm out (I don't need them often - but looking at a screen on the back is not optimal)

Also the screen isn't bright enough if I'm in bright light (when I'm unlikely to have a coat as a shield)

Just the personal practicalities, I've discovered over 4yrs of using a 1Ds3 with a ruled screen in it.  Others may be more attentive to detail and remember stuff - unlikely I'll get much better at it :-)

dilbert

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 3111
    • View Profile
Re: 1DX and focusing screens
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2011, 03:40:42 PM »
For anything that involves mounting on a tripod, why wouldn't you manually focus via live view?

Because I sometimes forget my glasses when I'm out (I don't need them often - but looking at a screen on the back is not optimal)

Also the screen isn't bright enough if I'm in bright light (when I'm unlikely to have a coat as a shield)

Just the personal practicalities, I've discovered over 4yrs of using a 1Ds3 with a ruled screen in it.  Others may be more attentive to detail and remember stuff - unlikely I'll get much better at it :-)

So you're happy fiddling with the diopter adjustment depending on whether or not you've got your glasses on?!

I find it rather awkward to deal with...

Does the 1Ds3 have the same LCD as the 5D2? I've never had a problem in bright conditions...?

canon rumors FORUM

Re: 1DX and focusing screens
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2011, 03:40:42 PM »