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Author Topic: *UPDATE* The "Historic" November 3, 2011 Announcement [CR1]  (Read 17410 times)

HurtinMinorKey

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Re: *UPDATE* The \
« Reply #30 on: October 31, 2011, 04:28:34 PM »
You are forgetting the fact that Canon is choosing to announce the same day as Red Scarlet.

There is no way Scarlet is going to be priced anywhere above $15k, so that leads me to believe that whatever Canon is going to announce that day will compete in that price range.

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Re: *UPDATE* The \
« Reply #30 on: October 31, 2011, 04:28:34 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: *UPDATE* The "Historic" November 3, 2011 Announcement [CR1]
« Reply #31 on: October 31, 2011, 04:59:46 PM »
Well, the web page I asked for a list of Canon's prime lenses didn't list any of the TS lenses, so it would seem that there's some disagreement about whether that is considered a prime lens :D

Probably about as much disagreement as over whether the 800mm f/5.6L IS is a superzoom lens.   :P
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justthefacts

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Re: *UPDATE* The \
« Reply #32 on: October 31, 2011, 05:14:08 PM »
Canon is choosing to announce the same day as Red Scarlet.

Canon did not choose the date based upon when Scarlet will be announced.  In fact, the opposite is the case:
"Not to be outdone, shortly after Canon coyly asked the press to “save the date,” Jim Jannard, the inimitable founder of Red, announced that “Everything you ever wanted to hear from RED regarding Scarlet will be announced Nov. 3 at 6 p.m.”
http://www.btlnews.com/crafts/camera/canon-promises-a-historic-global-announcement-nov-3/


dilbert

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Re: *UPDATE* The \
« Reply #33 on: October 31, 2011, 05:35:12 PM »
Canon is choosing to announce the same day as Red Scarlet.

Canon did not choose the date based upon when Scarlet will be announced.  In fact, the opposite is the case:
"Not to be outdone, shortly after Canon coyly asked the press to “save the date,” Jim Jannard, the inimitable founder of Red, announced that “Everything you ever wanted to hear from RED regarding Scarlet will be announced Nov. 3 at 6 p.m.”
http://www.btlnews.com/crafts/camera/canon-promises-a-historic-global-announcement-nov-3/

And I'm willing to bet that one of those two companies has a product that is ready and one that does not.

gene_can_sing

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Re: *UPDATE* The \
« Reply #34 on: October 31, 2011, 07:59:24 PM »
Here's why I think some type of hybrid video / DSLR might be introduced on Nov 3rd. It makes ZERO sense to introduce a modern video camera with a mirror. It will get laughed out of the room.

The current 5D EOS mount can easily adopt PL mount lenses. The only problem is the mirror. There are modified 7Ds and 5Ds out there that have had the mirror taken out to allow PL mount lenses.

With that said, any new Canon camcorder style video camera will be mirrorless and will probably have some type of EOS adaptor since the flange length on mirrorless cameras are really short..

So logic says, if they are introducing a camera that only takes EOS lenses and not PL lenses, it implies that it has a MIRROR. And that means it will be a DSLR or some type of hybrid. There is ZERO chance they are going to put a mirror in a dedicated video camera. That would be so antiquated and dated.

With that said, this is a rumors site, so the whole separate EOS and PL mount info could all just be hot air. Nobody will know until that day.


DavidG

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Re: *UPDATE* The \
« Reply #35 on: October 31, 2011, 08:06:51 PM »
Is there going to be an online spot for us to watch the announcement?

sjaudio

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Re: *UPDATE* The \
« Reply #36 on: October 31, 2011, 08:44:19 PM »
Here's why I think some type of hybrid video / DSLR might be introduced on Nov 3rd. It makes ZERO sense to introduce a modern video camera with a mirror. It will get laughed out of the room.

The current 5D EOS mount can easily adopt PL mount lenses. The only problem is the mirror. There are modified 7Ds and 5Ds out there that have had the mirror taken out to allow PL mount lenses.

With that said, any new Canon camcorder style video camera will be mirrorless and will probably have some type of EOS adaptor since the flange length on mirrorless cameras are really short..

So logic says, if they are introducing a camera that only takes EOS lenses and not PL lenses, it implies that it has a MIRROR. And that means it will be a DSLR or some type of hybrid. There is ZERO chance they are going to put a mirror in a dedicated video camera. That would be so antiquated and dated.

With that said, this is a rumors site, so the whole separate EOS and PL mount info could all just be hot air. Nobody will know until that day.

People have been using EOS and EF interchangeably in the forums.  The initial report states that it is an EF mount.  That says nothing about a mirror, just the connector to get the lens on the body.

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Re: *UPDATE* The \
« Reply #36 on: October 31, 2011, 08:44:19 PM »

c.d.embrey

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Re: *UPDATE* The \
« Reply #37 on: October 31, 2011, 11:23:36 PM »

With that said, any new Canon camcorder style video camera will be mirrorless and will probably have some type of EOS adaptor since the flange length on mirrorless cameras are really short..


There is a Hugh difference between a HD Video Camera, as used by the Television Networks, and a Digital Cinema Camera used by Hollywood Studios. So I don't think that Canon sent invitation to the Hollywood Studios, to announce a video camera.   :)

Edwin Herdman

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« Reply #38 on: November 01, 2011, 02:24:41 AM »
Canon might be well positioned to produce something which can start to bridge the gap between those types of systems.  RED seems to have bet right that you can differentiate between different models to match needs and budgets, but Canon's video DSLRs (and video-equipped DSLRs / in general; even mirrorless cameras are fighting to get into this space) already seem to do pretty well for much of the budget segment RED was hoping to capture; they might be able to cover much of the remaining high-end market with one solution here (especially if it's affordable).  From what I've read Canon must be looking to recapture some market share in electronic news gathering, but this will at least help offset that market impact if they can't recapture it.

It will be very interesting to see if the lenses are PL or EF mount, or both.  I admit being caught offguard by their announcement of support for PL mount, and moving more towards EF mount could maybe be seen as reneging a bit on that promise.  They will be looking to lock in customers to whatever system they create, but they also hopefully realize (as I was told months back) that in the high-end video / cinema markets that compatibility with PL mount primes is important.

Sensor size will be another interesting thing to watch for - full frame, larger, or smaller?  I have no idea what Canon could or should produce, but from simple dimensions full frame sounds like the most efficient use of an EF mount (same diameter as Arri PL, and a shorter flange focal distance).
« Last Edit: November 01, 2011, 02:26:56 AM by Edwin Herdman »

Giant Steps

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Re: *UPDATE* The \
« Reply #39 on: November 01, 2011, 02:42:00 PM »
Here is the scoop on the November 3 announcement by Canon:

The camera to be announced will be priced at above $50,000. (body only).

How do I know this?  Because:
1. The president of Canon is flying from Tokyo to Hollywood for the announcement.
2. Invitations for the event have only be sent to mainstream studios and other high end studios.
3. The public is not invited to the event because there is no room for a big audience in the small room where the announcement will be made in the new Canon offices on the Sunset-Gower studio lot.

So based upon these FACTS, sorry to crush your wishful thinking of a $10,000. camera, but this is not a consumer or even pro-sumer or even independent filmmaker event.  This is an event for mainstream studios.

The camera to be announced is designed to compete with Sony's F65 CineAlta 4K camera, a $65,000 body only camera.

Later, next year, you'll hear some trickle down for lesser models at lesser price points with less features.  But not on November 3.

You are either misinformed, or trolling.  Explain this to the shooters of 2 new cams who have been all over SoCal for the past 3 weeks, and the special built setup room at Birns & Sawyer in the Valley.

Zuuyi

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Re: *UPDATE* The
« Reply #40 on: November 01, 2011, 05:17:52 PM »
I want it to be a 5D3; but it easily could be a 2, 3, or 4 series.  There is no way it will be a 50k camera. I think it is a $2-5k camera aimed at video.  Could be up to $15k but it will not be $50k.

It could also be a 7D built just for Videographers; it would get a lot of interest with Dual Digic V chips.  It would be nice if it get's up to 2k video.

And 4k capture is only 11.5 Megapixels; which is done by all current Canon DSLRs excluding the 1D3.  So 4k capture isn't that big of a deal for a camera.  if it can capture 4k in video format that would be something nice, but would be 5 or 10k and up.


RichST

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Re: *UPDATE* The
« Reply #41 on: November 01, 2011, 06:09:56 PM »
And 4k capture is only 11.5 Megapixels; which is done by all current Canon DSLRs excluding the 1D3.  So 4k capture isn't that big of a deal for a camera.  if it can capture 4k in video format that would be something nice, but would be 5 or 10k and up.

Just to clarify here, while most all Canon cameras have "4K" sensors they are definitely not using the entire sensor to generate video, most pixels are getting binned or thrown out in the process. Usually 4K in video means you are fully sampling at that rate

Edwin Herdman

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Re: *UPDATE* The
« Reply #42 on: November 02, 2011, 05:37:26 AM »
And 4k capture is only 11.5 Megapixels; which is done by all current Canon DSLRs excluding the 1D3.  So 4k capture isn't that big of a deal for a camera.
Simply having a bazillion pixels on the image sensor is not the same as being able to pull image off those pixels for 24, 30, or even 60 frames per second.  Have another look at DSLR shooting rates if you don't think this is the case - none of even the top-end cameras come close to 24 frames per second, and the shutter / mirror mechanism is not the only limiting factor here - the electronics are.  The data throughput potential of the system, to be exact.

This is part of the reason why the news about the 1D X not skipping lines on the sensor is such big news - getting information from every portion of the sensor rather than just skipping lines to save data throughput (from the image sensor to the CPU, mainly) and processing time (as the CPU combines adjacent pixels from the image sensor into one pixel - remembering that this is done across lines, so this might be a call out to slightly slower off-CPU RAM, as opposed to a simple addition or multiplication on the CPU combining two data points that are "next to each other" in the data stream) is very expensive computationally.

4K stills - yeah, that's not a big deal (anymore - it wasn't too long ago that even stills didn't reach that resolution, and buying a camera with 4K resolution is still not dirt cheap).  4K video is a whole 'nother ballgame.

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Re: *UPDATE* The
« Reply #42 on: November 02, 2011, 05:37:26 AM »

niccyboy

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Re: *UPDATE* The \
« Reply #43 on: November 02, 2011, 07:31:20 AM »
Anyone know when this announcement is to be made?

Zuuyi

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Re: *UPDATE* The
« Reply #44 on: November 02, 2011, 09:38:18 AM »
And 4k capture is only 11.5 Megapixels; which is done by all current Canon DSLRs excluding the 1D3.  So 4k capture isn't that big of a deal for a camera.
Simply having a bazillion pixels on the image sensor is not the same as being able to pull image off those pixels for 24, 30, or even 60 frames per second.  Have another look at DSLR shooting rates if you don't think this is the case - none of even the top-end cameras come close to 24 frames per second, and the shutter / mirror mechanism is not the only limiting factor here - the electronics are.  The data throughput potential of the system, to be exact.

This is part of the reason why the news about the 1D X not skipping lines on the sensor is such big news - getting information from every portion of the sensor rather than just skipping lines to save data throughput (from the image sensor to the CPU, mainly) and processing time (as the CPU combines adjacent pixels from the image sensor into one pixel - remembering that this is done across lines, so this might be a call out to slightly slower off-CPU RAM, as opposed to a simple addition or multiplication on the CPU combining two data points that are "next to each other" in the data stream) is very expensive computationally.

4K stills - yeah, that's not a big deal (anymore - it wasn't too long ago that even stills didn't reach that resolution, and buying a camera with 4K resolution is still not dirt cheap).  4K video is a whole 'nother ballgame.

Buying a 4k camera is dirt cheap now: $40 bucks (Probably a POS P&S but still 4k capture)
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Insignia%26%23153%3B+-+Refurbished+12.0-Megapixel+Digital+Camera+-+Metallic+Blue/1634105.p?id=1218274974194&skuId=1634105

I clearly separated 4k capture from 4k video.  Because 4k capture doesn't state video or still.  4k video capture is a game changer; even 2k video would be great in the DSLR world.

To be honest I would prefer 720p or 1080p slow motion (120, 240, 480 fps) before 4k video; more useful to me.

I think 2k video is doable in the price range of anywhere between 2D - 7D.  4k video is going to be above 5k likely above 10k.  And I don't believe they would make such a production of it if it was above 10k.

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Re: *UPDATE* The
« Reply #44 on: November 02, 2011, 09:38:18 AM »