August 29, 2014, 12:35:58 PM

Author Topic: Patent: EF 85mm f/1.2L III and Others  (Read 5075 times)

Ruined

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Re: Patent: EF 85mm f/1.2L III and Others
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2014, 06:12:27 PM »
I think these are more likely to come out in 2015-2016.  The 50mm f/1.8 IS hasn't been released yet, I think that will come first - and the 85L II is still quite new, though you never know.   Unless they are planning to simplify the 50 line to just two prime lenses (1.2/1.4) which could mean dropping the 1.8...

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Re: Patent: EF 85mm f/1.2L III and Others
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2014, 06:12:27 PM »

GMCPhotographics

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Re: Patent: EF 85mm f/1.2L III and Others
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2014, 06:33:29 PM »
I love, love, love my 85II for all reasons stated above, but seriously, this lens has really bad LOCA that's difficult to fix in post.

If they found a way to reduce the green/magenta bokeh CA, I would upgrade in a heartbeat (assuming that's even possible on 1.2 lenses)

It is correctable to some degree through use of APO lens designs.  As always, though, there are varying degrees of effectivity even among respective APO designs, and if we REALLY demand the goods...we're probably in Leica territory for price. 

The third party makers (Sigma!) often designate APO on lenses, but while the design may be APO, their particular realization of the design usually leaves much to be desired.  This can be due to any number of design constraints. 

Canon's L-series Flourite coatings are part of their APO equations where used.  However, to the best of my knowledge, the 85mm f/1.2L is not an APO design.  Maybe someone has more or better information than I have, though.

Leica made a 90mm APO lens that will show you what REAL APO can achieve in shorter lenses in the portrait range.  It sold for almost $4k, though.  How badly do you want rid of that LOCA on the Canon 85?  I'm pretty ok with mine! ;-)

The 85IIL is an expensive lens to design, engineer and build. It uses some pretty high grade design components not seen in other lenses...like automotive grade ball bearings to shunt the internal glass about smotthly and reliably. Canon can easily match zeiss optics if the wanted to and the lens priced wouldn't be anywhere near the level of the Zeiss glass. Canon sells a lot more lenses than Zeiss, so it's R&D can be spread over a larger number of production units and Zeiss ever could. Canon also will need to add a top tier AF system to their lenses...and sometimes this is a logistical problem...which is why the 85IIL uses a purely electronic AF system with no mechanical linkage. Full time Manual focusing is achieved using the AF motor because some of the glass elements which need to be precisely moved have a lot of mass. A mechanical link just isn't possible with this optical formula.

CarlTN

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Re: Patent: EF 85mm f/1.2L III and Others
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2014, 01:33:41 AM »
The 85L ii is not "new", it's at least 6 years old now, I believe.  I know it wasn't brand new when I rented it 4 years ago.

I have to take issue with it being sharp wide open.  It's not remotely as sharp at f/1.2, as for example the 135L is at its wide open f/2 (not even in the center...and at the borders the 85L is pretty soft, and suffers from coma).  Also, the 85L has a fairly high vignette anywhere near wide open aperture.

For anyone using it on a 1DX, I could better understand why they think it's extremely sharp wide open.  Your pixels are fairly large on that camera.  If your subjects are all in the center and the rest is defocused, you would never see the lens' faults at or close to wide open aperture.

I don't see anyone calling for weather sealing in a new version...seems like that would be good.  Faster autofocus, would likely require a radically different design, would it not?  I suppose a version 3 would need to autofocus faster, though.  Just not sure how fast it could be.

As for IS...it would be nice, but IS isn't all that necessary at this focal length and aperture, unless you do a lot of landscape shots hand-held...or at least it seems so to me.  If you're shooting portraits without strobes in available light...those people are still moving, even if only breathing.  You still ideally need 1/160 if they are standing or sitting very still, or else even more shutter speed if you want to stop motion.  Panning with IS and such a wide aperture, would be very interesting though, I have to admit.  But like for "street photography", IS isn't all that necessary.  It would also add weight to an already heavy "canon-ball" lens...

If I could afford (and justify owning) it I would buy the current version and be happy, though.  Perhaps other lenses will come along that can really give it a run for its money optically, and be able to autofocus faster and as accurately (or more so).  Not sure the Sigma 85 is up to the task from what I've read.  As for the f/1.8 Canon...well, it's an f/1.8...but seems like an extreme bargain.  But it is a much older still design.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2014, 01:36:18 AM by CarlTN »

Caps18

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Re: Patent: EF 85mm f/1.2L III and Others
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2014, 02:54:11 PM »
If it is a 50mm f/1.4 IS, that would be a hard choice over the 50mm f/1.2. 
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Re: Patent: EF 85mm f/1.2L III and Others
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2014, 03:13:02 PM »
The 85L ii is not "new", it's at least 6 years old now, I believe.  I know it wasn't brand new when I rented it 4 years ago.


Well, compared to the 35, 135, TS45, 50 f1.4 etc it is new. It's nearly 5 years since the 7d was announced and the 35 L has been around since 98 or something.
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Etienne

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Re: Patent: EF 85mm f/1.2L III and Others
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2014, 07:40:02 PM »
If it is a 50mm f/1.4 IS, that would be a hard choice over the 50mm f/1.2.

Not for me. I'll take the IS over 1/3 stop any day. 1.4 is already very shallow and bright

GMCPhotographics

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Re: Patent: EF 85mm f/1.2L III and Others
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2014, 08:59:46 PM »
I have to take issue with it being sharp wide open.  It's not remotely as sharp at f/1.2, as for example the 135L is at its wide open f/2 (not even in the center...and at the borders the 85L is pretty soft, and suffers from coma).  Also, the 85L has a fairly high vignette anywhere near wide open aperture.

My copy of the 85II L is really sharp wide open. It's sharper than my 135L wide open. My 2nd photographer's copy isn't quite as sharp as mine but it's still very sharp.

I'm really not that fussed about coma, it's very easily correctable. The point of the 85IIL is that it's a portraiture lens, hence the soft corners, dreamy bokeh and strong vignette wide open...it's an optical photoshop look...and really works wonders with portraits.

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Re: Patent: EF 85mm f/1.2L III and Others
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2014, 08:59:46 PM »

CarlTN

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Re: Patent: EF 85mm f/1.2L III and Others
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2014, 01:44:59 AM »
I have to take issue with it being sharp wide open.  It's not remotely as sharp at f/1.2, as for example the 135L is at its wide open f/2 (not even in the center...and at the borders the 85L is pretty soft, and suffers from coma).  Also, the 85L has a fairly high vignette anywhere near wide open aperture.

My copy of the 85II L is really sharp wide open. It's sharper than my 135L wide open. My 2nd photographer's copy isn't quite as sharp as mine but it's still very sharp.

I'm really not that fussed about coma, it's very easily correctable. The point of the 85IIL is that it's a portraiture lens, hence the soft corners, dreamy bokeh and strong vignette wide open...it's an optical photoshop look...and really works wonders with portraits.

No doubt there's sample variation, I suspect you have a soft 135 and the 85 I rented was slightly soft.  I fully realize it's a portrait lens.  But as for coma being "easily correctable", I'm not sure how you do that.

tron

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Re: Patent: EF 85mm f/1.2L III and Others
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2014, 02:16:08 AM »
I have to take issue with it being sharp wide open.  It's not remotely as sharp at f/1.2, as for example the 135L is at its wide open f/2 (not even in the center...and at the borders the 85L is pretty soft, and suffers from coma).  Also, the 85L has a fairly high vignette anywhere near wide open aperture.

My copy of the 85II L is really sharp wide open. It's sharper than my 135L wide open. My 2nd photographer's copy isn't quite as sharp as mine but it's still very sharp.

I'm really not that fussed about coma, it's very easily correctable. The point of the 85IIL is that it's a portraiture lens, hence the soft corners, dreamy bokeh and strong vignette wide open...it's an optical photoshop look...and really works wonders with portraits.

No doubt there's sample variation, I suspect you have a soft 135 and the 85 I rented was slightly soft.  I fully realize it's a portrait lens.  But as for coma being "easily correctable", I'm not sure how you do that.

@CarlTN +1 on your coma comment.

@GMCPhotographics Vey interesting on coma correction! Maybe you know something we don't

http://www.lenstip.com/189.7-Lens_review-Canon_EF_85_mm_f_1.2L_II_USM_Coma_and_astigmatism.html

CarlTN

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Re: Patent: EF 85mm f/1.2L III and Others
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2014, 02:29:59 AM »
I have to take issue with it being sharp wide open.  It's not remotely as sharp at f/1.2, as for example the 135L is at its wide open f/2 (not even in the center...and at the borders the 85L is pretty soft, and suffers from coma).  Also, the 85L has a fairly high vignette anywhere near wide open aperture.

My copy of the 85II L is really sharp wide open. It's sharper than my 135L wide open. My 2nd photographer's copy isn't quite as sharp as mine but it's still very sharp.

I'm really not that fussed about coma, it's very easily correctable. The point of the 85IIL is that it's a portraiture lens, hence the soft corners, dreamy bokeh and strong vignette wide open...it's an optical photoshop look...and really works wonders with portraits.

No doubt there's sample variation, I suspect you have a soft 135 and the 85 I rented was slightly soft.  I fully realize it's a portrait lens.  But as for coma being "easily correctable", I'm not sure how you do that.

@CarlTN +1 on your coma comment.

@GMCPhotographics Vey interesting on coma correction! Maybe you know something we don't

http://www.lenstip.com/189.7-Lens_review-Canon_EF_85_mm_f_1.2L_II_USM_Coma_and_astigmatism.html

Thanks for the link!  I think even the Zeiss Otus 55mm has some coma on full frame borders and corners, at wide aperture, but it's probably better than the 85L.  I don't feel like searching for it right now.  If it has .000 % coma even in the FF corners at f/1.4, I'd be very surprised.

GMCPhotographics

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Re: Patent: EF 85mm f/1.2L III and Others
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2014, 05:34:17 AM »
Apologies guys, getting my loca and coma confused....but it's not something which is much of an issue with portraiture, I've never pointed this lens at the stary night sky. With all large aperture prime lenses, one has to take the vices with it's benefits. It's not a perfect general lens but it takes some fine portraits.
I have used it for landscape work, which showed that my copy is very sharp wide open and stopped down. But it's heavy for an 85mm prime and it's max stopped down aperture of f16 is a bit short for star bursts

Not many users of this lens are that fussed by weather sealing. Adding a rubber ring doesn't really add much to it's weather sealing capacity. I've ridden my 85IIL in quite heavy rain and not had any issues:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/23849425@N06/4494339793/in/photostream/
« Last Edit: April 02, 2014, 06:05:36 AM by GMCPhotographics »

vscd

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Re: Patent: EF 85mm f/1.2L III and Others
« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2014, 06:47:13 AM »
Quote
[...]this lens has really bad LOCA that's difficult to fix in post[...]

Did you try DXO Optics? I have no problem with LOCA/CA after developing it in this Raw-tool. Sometimes, if they're really harsh I also use RawTherapy for manually optimze some pictures... but normally all optical problems are gone after a stock conversion. And..no, this is no advert. But in the beginning I also thought the OOC-JPG is the final picture... but hell, there is so much more to get of your pictures. Especially with the 85LII.
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CarlTN

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Re: Patent: EF 85mm f/1.2L III and Others
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2014, 10:05:49 PM »
Apologies guys, getting my loca and coma confused....but it's not something which is much of an issue with portraiture, I've never pointed this lens at the stary night sky. With all large aperture prime lenses, one has to take the vices with it's benefits. It's not a perfect general lens but it takes some fine portraits.
I have used it for landscape work, which showed that my copy is very sharp wide open and stopped down. But it's heavy for an 85mm prime and it's max stopped down aperture of f16 is a bit short for star bursts

Not many users of this lens are that fussed by weather sealing. Adding a rubber ring doesn't really add much to it's weather sealing capacity. I've ridden my 85IIL in quite heavy rain and not had any issues:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/23849425@N06/4494339793/in/photostream/

Well they sure are bothered by the Sigma 35 Art not having a rubber ring...I guess if it cost $2000, then they wouldn't have a problem?  lol.

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Re: Patent: EF 85mm f/1.2L III and Others
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2014, 10:05:49 PM »

CarlTN

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Re: Patent: EF 85mm f/1.2L III and Others
« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2014, 10:06:58 PM »
Quote
[...]this lens has really bad LOCA that's difficult to fix in post[...]

Did you try DXO Optics? I have no problem with LOCA/CA after developing it in this Raw-tool. Sometimes, if they're really harsh I also use RawTherapy for manually optimze some pictures... but normally all optical problems are gone after a stock conversion. And..no, this is no advert. But in the beginning I also thought the OOC-JPG is the final picture... but hell, there is so much more to get of your pictures. Especially with the 85LII.

I'm surprised how good LR is with LOCA/CA...

vscd

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Re: Patent: EF 85mm f/1.2L III and Others
« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2014, 04:46:27 AM »
>I'm surprised how good LR is with LOCA/CA...

Of course, this is another fine tool for those tasks. I also use LR5 for some specific pictures, but I don't like the workflow. I hate to import every picture into a tool, just to see a JPG of my RAW.
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Re: Patent: EF 85mm f/1.2L III and Others
« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2014, 04:46:27 AM »