July 31, 2014, 04:09:16 AM

Author Topic: We Have More Internal Canon Service Information on Lenses & Cameras  (Read 20097 times)

R1-7D

  • Canon 70D
  • ****
  • Posts: 266
    • View Profile
Re: We Have More Internal Canon Service Information on Lenses & Cameras
« Reply #30 on: April 04, 2014, 01:11:11 PM »
Yes, absolutely post the rest of the internal documents! I am particularly interested in the new Canon 24–70 II lens clicking problem.

Both GM and Toyota have got caught with their pants down because of internal documents and ignoring problems. Why should Canon get away too just because it's a camera maker?

The fundamental difference between GM and Toyota, and Canon, is that faulty cars kill people, a clicking 24-70 is annoying.

Keep perspective.

Absolutely, that's a big difference. However, the perspective is all these companies are doing this now and it's completely unacceptable, just in the case of cars it's potentially life threatening. No company, whether they manufacture tea kettles or automobiles, should get away with this.

As someone pointed out, people save their hard earned money for Canon's premium equipment. Why should people also have to pay for a design flaw when Canon is aware of it and still released the product?
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 01:13:20 PM by R1-7D »
Cameras: 1DX, Canon M. Lenses: Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II, Canon EF 70-200 f/2.8L IS II,  Canon EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro, Canon EF 2X III, Tokina SD 16-28mm f/2.8 FX, Canon M 18-55mm IS, Canon M 22mm. Flashes MT-24 580EXII

canon rumors FORUM

Re: We Have More Internal Canon Service Information on Lenses & Cameras
« Reply #30 on: April 04, 2014, 01:11:11 PM »

jettad

  • SX50 HS
  • **
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
Re: We Have More Internal Canon Service Information on Lenses & Cameras
« Reply #31 on: April 04, 2014, 01:13:18 PM »
Have to agree with everyone else, please release them.

noisejammer

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 157
    • View Profile
Re: We Have More Internal Canon Service Information on Lenses & Cameras
« Reply #32 on: April 04, 2014, 01:21:28 PM »
Can a case be made for publishing? Probably, yes.
Can a case be made for not publishing? Probably, yes.

Information like this has the potential to harm the image of a large company and if there's any doubt regarding the legitimacy of these bulletins, I would urge caution. Can you withstand a libel suit in (say) an English court? (For those who do not know, English law allows a foreign entity to sue another foreign entity in an English court if _anyone_ from Britain was able to read the information. Worse, there is a presumption of guilt and the defendant has to demonstrate the veracity of their claim.)
 
Having already defamed Canon by implying unethical behavior, I urge that you consult your legal council before you publish. He/She will probably tell you to sit on your thumbs.

unfocused

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1926
    • View Profile
    • Unfocused: A photo website
Re: We Have More Internal Canon Service Information on Lenses & Cameras
« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2014, 01:24:12 PM »
But it is equally important to keep perspective and not let rumour and incorrect conclusions unduly damage the core business, after all I am sure every company has such a list of papers...
But Canon should not be charging for faulty or failing design or manufacturing issues.

I applaud Private's effort to keep this in perspective. Without knowing what the information is that CR has, it's  hard to say "No." But honestly, only CR Guy knows what the information is and can decide if it is important enough to release.

Let's be realistic – if Canon has identified a tiny design flaw that impacts .0005% of one lens and then only when shooting a full moon on a cloudy night in April in odd numbered years and you post that online, then every internet forum will be lit up with people who are ABSOLUTELY SURE their lens has this problem and they'll be demanding that Canon immediately replace their five-year-old lens with a new model and provide free overnight shipping as well.

On the other hand, if there is a serious design flaw that impacts a sizable number of users and Canon is charging for repairs when they shouldn't, that's another case.

I'm just saying a certain amount of judgment should be exercised.
pictures sharp. life not so much. www.unfocusedmg.com

Lightmaster

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 214
    • View Profile
Re: We Have More Internal Canon Service Information on Lenses & Cameras
« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2014, 01:24:55 PM »
Can a case be made for publishing? Probably, yes.
Can a case be made for not publishing? Probably, yes.

Information like this has the potential to harm the image of a large company and if there's any doubt regarding the legitimacy of these bulletins, I would urge caution. Can you withstand a libel suit in (say) an English court? (For those who do not know, English law allows a foreign entity to sue another foreign entity in an English court if _anyone_ from Britain was able to read the information. Worse, there is a presumption of guilt and the defendant has to demonstrate the veracity of their claim.)
 
Having already defamed Canon by implying unethical behavior, I urge that you consult your legal council before you publish. He/She will probably tell you to sit on your thumbs.


when the infos are correct then have the balls to publish them.

companys can push their customers around because people behave so cowardly.

and if you don´t dare to publish them.... then there are other ways to get information out to the people.

tmwilkes

  • SX50 HS
  • **
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
Re: We Have More Internal Canon Service Information on Lenses & Cameras
« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2014, 01:26:15 PM »
Of course you should release the information. It is absolutely unfair to the customer for Canon to charge for repairs for a known design flaw. It is a very deceitful business practice and raises question in my mind of how much I can trust Canon. We have a bunch of Canon equipment and have spent a bunch of money on repairs over the years, how much of that money should we have not paid because of a design flaw? They are unwilling to issue a product recall because they will lose money, instead they would rather charge the consumer to fix their mistake so they are making even more money off of us.

KeithBreazeal

  • Rebel SL1
  • ***
  • Posts: 99
    • View Profile
    • Keith Breazeal Photography
Re: We Have More Internal Canon Service Information on Lenses & Cameras
« Reply #36 on: April 04, 2014, 01:28:23 PM »
How about emailing the list to the forum members?  I have several bodies and lenses that are huge investments.  So far, only one had to go to the "ER".
Now that you are in possession of the information and told us, it's your responsibility to do the right thing.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: We Have More Internal Canon Service Information on Lenses & Cameras
« Reply #36 on: April 04, 2014, 01:28:23 PM »

R1-7D

  • Canon 70D
  • ****
  • Posts: 266
    • View Profile
Re: We Have More Internal Canon Service Information on Lenses & Cameras
« Reply #37 on: April 04, 2014, 01:29:48 PM »
But it is equally important to keep perspective and not let rumour and incorrect conclusions unduly damage the core business, after all I am sure every company has such a list of papers...
But Canon should not be charging for faulty or failing design or manufacturing issues.

I applaud Private's effort to keep this in perspective. Without knowing what the information is that CR has, it's  hard to say "No." But honestly, only CR Guy knows what the information is and can decide if it is important enough to release.

Let's be realistic – if Canon has identified a tiny design flaw that impacts .0005% of one lens and then only when shooting a full moon on a cloudy night in April in odd numbered years and you post that online, then every internet forum will be lit up with people who are ABSOLUTELY SURE their lens has this problem and they'll be demanding that Canon immediately replace their five-year-old lens with a new model and provide free overnight shipping as well.

On the other hand, if there is a serious design flaw that impacts a sizable number of users and Canon is charging for repairs when they shouldn't, that's another case.

I'm just saying a certain amount of judgment should be exercised.

As indicated by the CR post, it seems as if the person who is sending Canon Rumors these documents is trying to show that this is a slightly bigger problem than your make-believe example above.

I personally have been treated terribly by Canon over a decentered 24-70 II despite being a CPS member. Their shoddy service forced me to sell the lens at a massive loss and purchase another copy, of which I went through four different ones before I found one that is adequate; and even now it's developed the clicking sound.

I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy after the way I was treated through emails and on the phone by them.
Cameras: 1DX, Canon M. Lenses: Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II, Canon EF 70-200 f/2.8L IS II,  Canon EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro, Canon EF 2X III, Tokina SD 16-28mm f/2.8 FX, Canon M 18-55mm IS, Canon M 22mm. Flashes MT-24 580EXII

Ken B

  • Power Shot G16
  • **
  • Posts: 15
    • View Profile
Re: We Have More Internal Canon Service Information on Lenses & Cameras
« Reply #38 on: April 04, 2014, 01:35:33 PM »
I am heavily invested in Canon products as I am sure many others here are. I want to know exactly which of my Canon products could have issues so I am able to keep them functioning for my required shoots.

I do believe that Canon is looking at a Class action law suit if they have been deceitful and charged for repairs that they knew would be required. I would love to see them exposed and step up to the plate and make it right. However in today’s age I am afraid there lawyers would try to put a gag order on this site and kill it. You can plead freedom of speech. It can go around and around. 

I would try to find another outlet to share the documents with, the news media or something like that. It’s a tough call. Do you consider this site to be a News site? Negative press can create allot of head ache if it’s not factual. Defamation law suits will kill this site too.

Unfortunately many companies get away with this, I had a Ford F-150 that had all the window regulators fail (4 of them) and Ford didn't pay a dime, I did. It was a known problem on all 2004-2007 F-150s. I got stuck replacing them all plus a third one on the driver’s window at a cost of $1K out of my pocket.

2004 Honda Accord radios had a small 10 cent resistor that would fry in their radio, it killed the LCD screen and you couldn't see the display. This was a known problem and Honda sort of stepped up and extended the warranty on this item. However if you owned a vehicle beyond the 100K mileage or time you got stuck fixing it. The repair was $200 for a replacement circuit card, or $1400 for an entire head unit replacement. I got stuck with a $200 bill because I researched the problem when it happened. My car was at 114K when it fried.

I hate being the little guy and getting burned by the big guy, my only recourse is to shop a different brand. I dropped Canon for Nikon once before I can do it again.
Ken B
5D3, 16-35 2.8L, 24-70 2.8L, 70-200 2.8L, 40 2.8, 100 2.8L IS-M 2.8L, 2X III
Future glass: 15 2.8, 45 TS 2.8 50 1.2, 85 1.2,  600 4.0

rambarra

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 67
    • View Profile
Re: We Have More Internal Canon Service Information on Lenses & Cameras
« Reply #39 on: April 04, 2014, 01:42:10 PM »
yes you should publish internal Canon documents not meant to be realeased in public and obtained maybe illegally so that Canon lawyers can sue your ass off, claim damages and shut down website in minutes....
LOL

ScaneLife

  • SX50 HS
  • **
  • Posts: 4
    • View Profile
    • ScaneLife
Re: We Have More Internal Canon Service Information on Lenses & Cameras
« Reply #40 on: April 04, 2014, 01:50:45 PM »
Simply - Yes!

mackguyver

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 2439
  • Who Dares Wins
    • View Profile
    • My Personal Work
Re: We Have More Internal Canon Service Information on Lenses & Cameras
« Reply #41 on: April 04, 2014, 01:53:24 PM »
Yes, or at least send them to Wikileaks ;)
EOS 1D X, 5DIII, M + EF 24 f/1.4II, 50 f/1.2, 85 f/1.2II, 300 f/2.8 IS II || 16-35 f/4 IS, 24-70 f/2.8II, 70-200 f/2.8II || TS-E 17 f/4, 24 f/3.5II || M 22 f/2, 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 IS || 1.4x III, 2x III

t.linn

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 143
    • View Profile
    • You Must Have A Really Nice Camera
Re: We Have More Internal Canon Service Information on Lenses & Cameras
« Reply #42 on: April 04, 2014, 02:02:54 PM »
Yes, release them for all the reasons previously posted—and for this:

Saying you've got information on faulty Canon gear and NOT releasing that information to your readership is about the worst thing you can do.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: We Have More Internal Canon Service Information on Lenses & Cameras
« Reply #42 on: April 04, 2014, 02:02:54 PM »

filo64

  • Power Shot G16
  • **
  • Posts: 21
    • View Profile
Re: We Have More Internal Canon Service Information on Lenses & Cameras
« Reply #43 on: April 04, 2014, 02:03:01 PM »
I personally think that pulling this into the light will strengthen Canon's dedication to quality and customer service, which will pay off for Canon in the long run. In the short run, it will obviously put a dent into the brand and probably somebody's bonus, but frankly - I couldn't care less.

fox40phil

  • Power Shot G16
  • **
  • Posts: 28
    • View Profile
Re: We Have More Internal Canon Service Information on Lenses & Cameras
« Reply #44 on: April 04, 2014, 02:04:23 PM »
I think the info should be posted, there's people who save and spend their money thinking they will be getting a great quality item. Canon should fix the problem on their dime, not ours

yes!! You should post this stuff ASAP!! For us... the customers!

canon rumors FORUM

Re: We Have More Internal Canon Service Information on Lenses & Cameras
« Reply #44 on: April 04, 2014, 02:04:23 PM »