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Author Topic: 600EX-RT white balance/collor issues  (Read 5790 times)

SGS

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600EX-RT white balance/collor issues
« on: April 17, 2014, 03:13:56 PM »
Hello everybody,

I bought 600EX-RT about a month ago. Haven't really tested it outdoors yet, but found one issue while using it indoors.

The first flash i had was the manual Youngnuo 560 (chineese made) and used it on auto WB, indoors and usually at manual setting on camera on 250 shutter speed and diaphragm from 1.4 to ~ 5.6 on 50mm lense and standard lense (18-55 450d kit lense) i believe. The colours were perfect - never felt the need to adjust WB. Then I was asked By girlfriends co-worker to shoot the baptism ant thought - damn - i need flash with ETTL.. so  after some time i emptied my savings and bought the new flagship flash and thought it would make mirracles.. Test shots at shop were ok.. Baptism shots atschurch were ok .. But when i use it indoors in a room i found it warmens the colours too damn much. Ok my walls are yellow, i use the flash at same settings as the chineese onw and get radically different results - my white cat's fur becomes a bit yellowish and so on. Last day i shot my mothers birthday ( the walls were white, with no reds or yellos and the pictures were all oversaturated in red an magenta. Yes i shoot in raw.. But shouldn't i atleest get the results comparable to chineese flash? I'm thinking about taking flash to canon for inspection but i don't know what to tell them :) I have tested it head to head with chineese one and i don't understand what is the problem.. Both of them are on M and tested Both on 450D 50D and 5D MKII  - same results.

Have any of you had simillar experience? Will be thankfull for any replies, cos it does't let me sleep at nights :)

PS. English is not my first language, so sorry for grammar mistakes :)

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600EX-RT white balance/collor issues
« on: April 17, 2014, 03:13:56 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: 600EX-RT white balance/collor issues
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2014, 03:21:10 PM »
You're talking about mixed lighting scenarios, which are complicated.  The flash is 'cool' (close to daylight in color temperature), most indoor lighting is 'warn' (tungsten).  The difference between the Canon and the Yongnuo flash is that in Auto WB, the Canon flash is sending the camera information about the actual color temperature of the light it's putting out, whereas the Yongnuo is not.

Either way, the solution is the same - since you shoot RAW, set WB in post.  Some converters, like DxO, allow a 'multipoint' WB, where you can select several 'white' elements of the scene (with different color temperature illumination) and it will balance using those, in an attempt to average out the different light sources.
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SGS

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Re: 600EX-RT white balance/collor issues
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2014, 03:24:09 PM »
You're talking about mixed lighting scenarios, which are complicated.  The flash is 'cool' (close to daylight in color temperature), most indoor lighting is 'warn' (tungsten).  The difference between the Canon and the Yongnuo flash is that in Auto WB, the Canon flash is sending the camera information about the actual color temperature of the light it's putting out, whereas the Yongnuo is not.

Either way, the solution is the same - since you shoot RAW, set WB in post.  Some converters, like DxO, allow a 'multipoint' WB, where you can select several 'white' elements of the scene (with different color temperature illumination) and it will balance using those, in an attempt to average out the different light sources.

You mean it is sending WB info even in M mode set on flash it self? If so, is it any way t turn it off?

neuroanatomist

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Re: 600EX-RT white balance/collor issues
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2014, 03:31:19 PM »
You mean it is sending WB info even in M mode set on flash it self? If so, is it any way t turn it off?

It's not sending a white balance per se, but rather the color temperature of the flash.  If the camera's WB is set to wither Auto or Flash, that information will be used to help set the WB for the shot.  Setting the flash to M gives you control over the power output (flash duration, really), but you cannot control the color temp of the flash tube.  No way to turn off that information, but you can stop the camera from using that information by setting the WB to something other than Auto or Flash - you could set it to Daylight (~5200 K), or pick a Kelvin temperature in between flash (~6000 K) and tungsten (~2700 K).

If the room light is mainly tungsten, you could also just use the gel and holder that came with the 600 flash - the point of a CTO gel is to match the color temperature of the flash to that of the tungsten light, to avoid exactly the type of mixed lighting problem you are experiencing.  There are gels for matching fluorescent tubes, sodium vapor lights, etc.  It's not perfect, depending on the situation - for example, with tungsten ambient and a CTO-gelled flash, any light from outdoors through windows will show up blue.
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Jim Saunders

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Re: 600EX-RT white balance/collor issues
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2014, 03:42:43 PM »
As an aside using the Canon-supplied gels (or others cut to the same size) in the holder that comes with the flash puts a piece of the material under the flash's gel sensor; on auto or flash WB the data from that sensor will be used to get the WB right.

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SGS

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Re: 600EX-RT white balance/collor issues
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2014, 03:51:14 PM »
You mean it is sending WB info even in M mode set on flash it self? If so, is it any way t turn it off?

It's not sending a white balance per se, but rather the color temperature of the flash.  If the camera's WB is set to wither Auto or Flash, that information will be used to help set the WB for the shot.  Setting the flash to M gives you control over the power output (flash duration, really), but you cannot control the color temp of the flash tube.  No way to turn off that information, but you can stop the camera from using that information by setting the WB to something other than Auto or Flash - you could set it to Daylight (~5200 K), or pick a Kelvin temperature in between flash (~6000 K) and tungsten (~2700 K).

If the room light is mainly tungsten, you could also just use the gel and holder that came with the 600 flash - the point of a CTO gel is to match the color temperature of the flash to that of the ambient light, to avoid exactly the type of mixed lighting problem you are experiencing.  It's not perfect, depending on the situation - for example, light from outdoors through windows will show up blue.

Sorry, but i do not fully understand your following statement "It's not sending a white balance per se" In short, does it send WB info to camera if flash is set to M or not? Anyway i'm quite dissapointed about the results, because any mixed lightning has no effect when using YN flash and at same situation,  at same settings - lets say at night, with only tungsten lightning is pressent - i take same shot with same camera settings with same power values with both flashes - YN gives perfect shot - Canon gives some damn reddish yellowish stuff to work alot of later and it's really hard to correct, When the chineese one .. oh .. you know the last words :) Sorry if i explain something not correctly... maby some photos could help, i could try to shoot something and upload them tomorrow. If that could help in any way.

neuroanatomist

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Re: 600EX-RT white balance/collor issues
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2014, 03:56:30 PM »
Sorry, but i do not fully understand your following statement "It's not sending a white balance per se" In short, does it send WB info to camera if flash is set to M or not? 

No matter how the Canon flash is set, it will transmit information about the color temperature of the flash tube to the camera.  The camera is going to set a white balance automatically based on the scene, if set to auto.  It will use the color temperature of the flash to help make that calculation.
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Re: 600EX-RT white balance/collor issues
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2014, 03:56:30 PM »

SGS

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Re: 600EX-RT white balance/collor issues
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2014, 04:07:09 PM »
Sorry, but i do not fully understand your following statement "It's not sending a white balance per se" In short, does it send WB info to camera if flash is set to M or not? 

No matter how the Canon flash is set, it will transmit information about the color temperature of the flash tube to the camera.  The camera is going to set a white balance automatically based on the scene, if set to auto.  It will use the color temperature of the flash to help make that calculation.

Thank you very much for your help :) Damn it i was really  thinking of taking it to service.. I wish they would make a option to turn WB communication with camera - that would save lots of time in pp shoting indoors.. not for me only i think :) Becouse .. yes, i can adjust warmth in K, but damn YN with no communication gets it just RIGHT :)
« Last Edit: April 18, 2014, 08:29:56 AM by SGS »

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Re: 600EX-RT white balance/collor issues
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2014, 04:07:09 PM »