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Author Topic: New 50mm Sigma ? There are other options !  (Read 50787 times)

Viggo

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Re: New 50mm Sigma ? There are other options !
« Reply #90 on: April 14, 2014, 01:13:42 PM »
Fair enough!

It's ok, we have an excuse - you misstated, and I misinterpreted your statement, because we haven't grown up enough to have outgrown zoom lenses!   ;D

Ouch! HAHA ;D
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Re: New 50mm Sigma ? There are other options !
« Reply #90 on: April 14, 2014, 01:13:42 PM »

Andrew Davies Photography

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Re: New 50mm Sigma ? There are other options !
« Reply #91 on: April 14, 2014, 03:05:02 PM »
Fair enough!

It's ok, we have an excuse - you misstated, and I misinterpreted your statement, because we haven't grown up enough to have outgrown zoom lenses!   ;D

Ouch! HAHA ;D

While we are talking about misquotes to the handful of people who keep yacking on about the 24-70 2.8 mk2 , there was never a reference to this lens in my post you all just forgot to read it properly, The lens i replaced and compared with is the 24-70 2.8 mk1 and as already stated i am not making assumptions about the mk2 it may well be better than the 35 IS i haven't used it so cant comment.

Just completed another two weddings with the 24 35 85 combo and very happy with the results so far certainly beats the quality that i was getting from the 24-70 MK1 - but as i keep saying i am not dismissing zooms they have their place too and the 70-200 and 24-105 i still have is used by my second photographer , therefore i am covering a wedding with three primes and two zooms most of the time ( best of both worlds )

I would be interested to see if Sigma bring out any more tele primes or maybe canon will bring out an 85IS as the first three IS primes have been well received.

www.andrew-davies.com wedding photographer north east and yorkshire



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neuroanatomist

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Re: New 50mm Sigma ? There are other options !
« Reply #92 on: April 14, 2014, 03:11:25 PM »
While we are talking about misquotes to the handful of people who keep yacking on about the 24-70 2.8 mk2 , there was never a reference to this lens in my post you all just forgot to read it properly, The lens i replaced and compared with is the 24-70 2.8 mk1

Speaking for myself, I did not miss that point.  The problem is that you generalized that to the assertion that 'primes are better than zooms', and further compounded that with the statement that you've 'outgrown zooms', which I hope you can see is a slam against a whole lot of people.
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pwp

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Re: New 50mm Sigma ? There are other options !
« Reply #93 on: April 14, 2014, 07:03:44 PM »
While we are talking about misquotes to the handful of people who keep yacking on about the 24-70 2.8 mk2 , there was never a reference to this lens in my post you all just forgot to read it properly, The lens I replaced and compared with is the 24-70 2.8 mk1 and as already stated i am not making assumptions about the mk2 it may well be better than the 35 IS i haven't used it so cant comment.

Just completed another two weddings with the 24 35 85 combo and very happy with the results so far certainly beats the quality that I was getting from the 24-70 MK1...

OK! There's the difference. Most copies of the 24-70 f/2.8 MkI were unmitigated pieces of shirt when compared to the prime beating MkII. I'm not the only photographer around CR (and elsewhere) who ploughed through five or six 24-70 f/2.8MkI lenses over a number of years in search of one of the rare good copies.

As a signed-up, paid-up life member of the Z Team, I'd also choose your primes, the 24 35 85 combo over the old MkI zoom for an important job. My first day shooting with the MkII zoom was one of the happiest days of my life. To say I was gobsmacked by the quality across a broad variety of situations is almost an understatement.

-pw

Andrew Davies Photography

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Re: New 50mm Sigma ? There are other options !
« Reply #94 on: April 14, 2014, 07:23:24 PM »
While we are talking about misquotes to the handful of people who keep yacking on about the 24-70 2.8 mk2 , there was never a reference to this lens in my post you all just forgot to read it properly, The lens I replaced and compared with is the 24-70 2.8 mk1 and as already stated i am not making assumptions about the mk2 it may well be better than the 35 IS i haven't used it so cant comment.

Just completed another two weddings with the 24 35 85 combo and very happy with the results so far certainly beats the quality that I was getting from the 24-70 MK1...

OK! There's the difference. Most copies of the 24-70 f/2.8 MkI were unmitigated pieces of shirt when compared to the prime beating MkII. I'm not the only photographer around CR (and elsewhere) who ploughed through five or six 24-70 f/2.8MkI lenses over a number of years in search of one of the rare good copies.

As a signed-up, paid-up life member of the Z Team, I'd also choose your primes, the 24 35 85 combo over the old MkI zoom for an important job. My first day shooting with the MkII zoom was one of the happiest days of my life. To say I was gobsmacked by the quality across a broad variety of situations is almost an understatement.

-pw

Thats good to hear ! I am however surprised as i was under the impression from lots of reviews and talk over the years that the 24-70 2.8L was the best Canon had - I never got the performance out of it that i wanted and the day i started shooting the 35 IS was an eye opener to see how much sharper it was.

Would you say the 24-70 mk2 can seriously better the 24 35 85 primes ?



Canon 5Dmk3 x 2 , 135mm F2L, 16-35 F4LIS, 35mm F2IS, 24mm F2.8IS, 24-105L , 70-200 F4L,  85mm 1.8, 600exII x2

pwp

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Re: New 50mm Sigma ? There are other options !
« Reply #95 on: April 14, 2014, 07:59:19 PM »
OK! There's the difference. Most copies of the 24-70 f/2.8 MkI were unmitigated pieces of shirt when compared to the prime beating MkII. I'm not the only photographer around CR (and elsewhere) who ploughed through five or six 24-70 f/2.8MkI lenses over a number of years in search of one of the rare good copies.

As a signed-up, paid-up life member of the Z Team, I'd also choose your primes, the 24 35 85 combo over the old MkI zoom for an important job. My first day shooting with the MkII zoom was one of the happiest days of my life. To say I was gobsmacked by the quality across a broad variety of situations is almost an understatement.
-pw

That's good to hear ! I am however surprised as I was under the impression from lots of reviews and talk over the years that the 24-70 2.8L was the best Canon had - I never got the performance out of it that I wanted and the day I started shooting the 35 IS was an eye opener to see how much sharper it was.

Would you say the 24-70 mk2 can seriously better the 24 35 85 primes ?

Well, the 24-70 f/2.8MkII arrival quickly prompted me selling a great copy of a 24 f/1.4MkII, a 35 f/2 and a Sigma 50 f/1.4. The new lens eclipsed them all in most respects. I very occasionally miss the f/1.4 to f/2 range, but the 5D3 can handle an awesome iso peak when the need arises provided it's perfectly exposed and suitably treated in post-pro.

On a balance, I prefer the lighter bag and the established zoom credentials. Other than the obvious 15mm less reach, the 24-70 f/2.8 MkII will outperform the 85 f/1.8 but the 85 f/1.2 is clearly in a class/genre of its own. I did have a very sweet 85 f/1.2 for a few years but my shooting style requires rocket fast, very responsive AF so it also got on-sold because of lack of use.

-pw
« Last Edit: April 14, 2014, 08:18:35 PM by pwp »

Dylan777

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Re: New 50mm Sigma ? There are other options !
« Reply #96 on: April 14, 2014, 08:16:04 PM »
While we are talking about misquotes to the handful of people who keep yacking on about the 24-70 2.8 mk2 , there was never a reference to this lens in my post you all just forgot to read it properly, The lens I replaced and compared with is the 24-70 2.8 mk1 and as already stated i am not making assumptions about the mk2 it may well be better than the 35 IS i haven't used it so cant comment.

Just completed another two weddings with the 24 35 85 combo and very happy with the results so far certainly beats the quality that I was getting from the 24-70 MK1...

OK! There's the difference. Most copies of the 24-70 f/2.8 MkI were unmitigated pieces of shirt when compared to the prime beating MkII. I'm not the only photographer around CR (and elsewhere) who ploughed through five or six 24-70 f/2.8MkI lenses over a number of years in search of one of the rare good copies.

As a signed-up, paid-up life member of the Z Team, I'd also choose your primes, the 24 35 85 combo over the old MkI zoom for an important job. My first day shooting with the MkII zoom was one of the happiest days of my life. To say I was gobsmacked by the quality across a broad variety of situations is almost an understatement.

-pw

Thats good to hear ! I am however surprised as i was under the impression from lots of reviews and talk over the years that the 24-70 2.8L was the best Canon had - I never got the performance out of it that i wanted and the day i started shooting the 35 IS was an eye opener to see how much sharper it was.

Would you say the 24-70 mk2 can seriously better the 24 35 85 primes ?

The photo below was taken with 5D III + 24-70 II, SOOC,JPEG, no flash, zero edit. 

What do you think?
« Last Edit: April 14, 2014, 08:24:48 PM by Dylan777 »

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Re: New 50mm Sigma ? There are other options !
« Reply #96 on: April 14, 2014, 08:16:04 PM »

sagittariansrock

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Re: New 50mm Sigma ? There are other options !
« Reply #97 on: April 14, 2014, 08:40:49 PM »
While we are talking about misquotes to the handful of people who keep yacking on about the 24-70 2.8 mk2 , there was never a reference to this lens in my post you all just forgot to read it properly, The lens i replaced and compared with is the 24-70 2.8 mk1 and as already stated i am not making assumptions about the mk2 it may well be better than the 35 IS i haven't used it so cant comment.

Hmmm... so if you have never used the mk2 maybe you shouldn't have used the generalized comment below?

specifically we are talking mainly about quality, and in that respect the prime lens offers the client the best quality possible  :)

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zlatko

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Re: New 50mm Sigma ? There are other options !
« Reply #98 on: April 14, 2014, 10:34:23 PM »
OK! There's the difference. Most copies of the 24-70 f/2.8 MkI were unmitigated pieces of shirt when compared to the prime beating MkII. I'm not the only photographer around CR (and elsewhere) who ploughed through five or six 24-70 f/2.8MkI lenses over a number of years in search of one of the rare good copies.

As a signed-up, paid-up life member of the Z Team, I'd also choose your primes, the 24 35 85 combo over the old MkI zoom for an important job. My first day shooting with the MkII zoom was one of the happiest days of my life. To say I was gobsmacked by the quality across a broad variety of situations is almost an understatement.

-pw

The problem with the 24-70/2.8 Mk.I is not that it was a bad lens.  It was a very good lens when it was properly adjusted.  They were generally fine when fresh from the factory, but would go out of adjustment with regular use.  Within a year or two, even the good copies could become bad copies.  The more one used it, the more likely it was to go out of adjustment.  A heavy user of that lens was well advised to send it in for annual adjustments, even before the blurries started to show up.  On the other hand, a light user might not ever see it go out of adjustment.  Related to that, the adjustments themselves were not that easy to make.  And finally, even when well adjusted, some users reported that the lens liked to focus on a distant background a little too often, no matter how carefully it was focused on the subject.  It was a generally useful lens but with some reliability and maintenance issues. 

The Mk.II version is better in all respects and truly prime-like in quality.  That said, any lens with a complex zoom mechanism is likely to eventually need a tuneup with heavy use.  Primes, being simpler mechanically, generally don't need as much attention.

Andrew Davies Photography

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Re: New 50mm Sigma ? There are other options !
« Reply #99 on: April 15, 2014, 04:29:00 AM »
While we are talking about misquotes to the handful of people who keep yacking on about the 24-70 2.8 mk2 , there was never a reference to this lens in my post you all just forgot to read it properly, The lens I replaced and compared with is the 24-70 2.8 mk1 and as already stated i am not making assumptions about the mk2 it may well be better than the 35 IS i haven't used it so cant comment.

Just completed another two weddings with the 24 35 85 combo and very happy with the results so far certainly beats the quality that I was getting from the 24-70 MK1...

OK! There's the difference. Most copies of the 24-70 f/2.8 MkI were unmitigated pieces of shirt when compared to the prime beating MkII. I'm not the only photographer around CR (and elsewhere) who ploughed through five or six 24-70 f/2.8MkI lenses over a number of years in search of one of the rare good copies.

As a signed-up, paid-up life member of the Z Team, I'd also choose your primes, the 24 35 85 combo over the old MkI zoom for an important job. My first day shooting with the MkII zoom was one of the happiest days of my life. To say I was gobsmacked by the quality across a broad variety of situations is almost an understatement.

-pw

Thats good to hear ! I am however surprised as i was under the impression from lots of reviews and talk over the years that the 24-70 2.8L was the best Canon had - I never got the performance out of it that i wanted and the day i started shooting the 35 IS was an eye opener to see how much sharper it was.

Would you say the 24-70 mk2 can seriously better the 24 35 85 primes ?

The photo below was taken with 5D III + 24-70 II, SOOC,JPEG, no flash, zero edit. 

What do you think?


Honestly, Its a nice shot and well composed however it would not make me want to rush out and buy the lens. The bokeh looks odd and it does not look tack sharp anywhere.

Canon 5Dmk3 x 2 , 135mm F2L, 16-35 F4LIS, 35mm F2IS, 24mm F2.8IS, 24-105L , 70-200 F4L,  85mm 1.8, 600exII x2

Dylan777

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Re: New 50mm Sigma ? There are other options !
« Reply #100 on: April 15, 2014, 11:12:07 AM »
While we are talking about misquotes to the handful of people who keep yacking on about the 24-70 2.8 mk2 , there was never a reference to this lens in my post you all just forgot to read it properly, The lens I replaced and compared with is the 24-70 2.8 mk1 and as already stated i am not making assumptions about the mk2 it may well be better than the 35 IS i haven't used it so cant comment.

Just completed another two weddings with the 24 35 85 combo and very happy with the results so far certainly beats the quality that I was getting from the 24-70 MK1...

OK! There's the difference. Most copies of the 24-70 f/2.8 MkI were unmitigated pieces of shirt when compared to the prime beating MkII. I'm not the only photographer around CR (and elsewhere) who ploughed through five or six 24-70 f/2.8MkI lenses over a number of years in search of one of the rare good copies.

As a signed-up, paid-up life member of the Z Team, I'd also choose your primes, the 24 35 85 combo over the old MkI zoom for an important job. My first day shooting with the MkII zoom was one of the happiest days of my life. To say I was gobsmacked by the quality across a broad variety of situations is almost an understatement.

-pw

Thats good to hear ! I am however surprised as i was under the impression from lots of reviews and talk over the years that the 24-70 2.8L was the best Canon had - I never got the performance out of it that i wanted and the day i started shooting the 35 IS was an eye opener to see how much sharper it was.

Would you say the 24-70 mk2 can seriously better the 24 35 85 primes ?

The photo below was taken with 5D III + 24-70 II, SOOC,JPEG, no flash, zero edit. 

What do you think?


Honestly, Its a nice shot and well composed however it would not make me want to rush out and buy the lens. The bokeh looks odd and it does not look tack sharp anywhere.

You have any tack sharp image @ f3.2(without flash) in similar focal lenght?. Since you shoot wedding for $$$, I just want to know the definition of "tack sharp" from the pro POV. I visited your site, you have beatiful collection.

Photography is just a hobby for me & take photo of my kids around the house :)
« Last Edit: April 15, 2014, 11:19:05 AM by Dylan777 »

Andrew Davies Photography

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Re: New 50mm Sigma ? There are other options !
« Reply #101 on: April 15, 2014, 11:53:47 AM »
Quote
Photography is just a hobby for me & take photo of my kids around the house :)

This is hardly the kit list for someone who take pics of their kids at home
Body: 5D III(x2) -- A7r
Zoom: 16-35L II -- 24-70L II -- 70-200L f2.8 IS II
Prime: 40mm -- 50L -- 85L II -- 135L -- 400L f2.8 IS II -- Zeiss FE 55mm f1.8

If you are not using that lot to generate some income then there is something wrong !
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privatebydesign

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Re: New 50mm Sigma ? There are other options !
« Reply #102 on: April 15, 2014, 12:06:48 PM »
In fairness to Dylan's example image, the forum algorithm has massacred it, if you download it and then look at it at 100% it is a much more convincing point.

Personally though I find far too much emphasis on "sharpness" nowadays, I am still using the 24-70 MkI, indeed it is my most often used lens, and I have no intention of "upgrading" it for a MkII or a selection of primes. I have never, ever, had a customer consider my images too soft, indeed I often have to soften them somewhat.

Whilst I am a very vigorous proponent of "the gear doesn't matter" school of thought in many applications (with lots of caveats for BIF, ultimate IQ etc etc) and my almost rabid passion in 100 L vs 135 L threads, once you get into image creation, rather than taking pictures, it does become interesting on what you, personally, as the image maker, find compelling. For my money the bokeh of the MkII 24-70 and the 70-200 f2.8 IS are both worse than the lower resolving MkI versions, I would happily trade "up" if the sharpness difference was essential to my images, but it isn't. For me the MkII zooms are squarely aimed at sports shooters and their publications, and a resolution and numbers influenced customer base who value sharpness as the twin cousin of subject. It is so much easier to declare how much "better" a MkII lens is if it resolves more in a review test chart.

Predominantly image makers value subtle characteristics more, some of these are hardware driven, focal length, aperture etc, but the more interesting ones are more subtle, some sharpness, some bokeh, some colour and contrast etc but don't lose sight of the fact that nowadays much of those characteristics are simply created in software, or easy to emulate in software.

Too often we lose sight of the fact that photography is about capturing light, if we have the ability to take control of that light then we grow exponentially as photographers. More often than not the image is not about lens speed, sensor size, DR, MP's or AF, it is about the light.

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Re: New 50mm Sigma ? There are other options !
« Reply #102 on: April 15, 2014, 12:06:48 PM »

privatebydesign

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Re: New 50mm Sigma ? There are other options !
« Reply #103 on: April 15, 2014, 12:13:03 PM »
Quote
Photography is just a hobby for me & take photo of my kids around the house :)

This is hardly the kit list for someone who take pics of their kids at home
Body: 5D III(x2) -- A7r
Zoom: 16-35L II -- 24-70L II -- 70-200L f2.8 IS II
Prime: 40mm -- 50L -- 85L II -- 135L -- 400L f2.8 IS II -- Zeiss FE 55mm f1.8

If you are not using that lot to generate some income then there is something wrong !

There are lots of very well equipped hobbyists here on CR, many seem to have very good disposable income, far more than I do as a professional photographer with much more modest gear. There is nothing wrong with that! Indeed they help keep the price down for me.

Wanting the best is natural, defining what is the best is more nuanced and seems to be learnt from tests and reviews that are generally too numbers driven in my opinion.
Too often we lose sight of the fact that photography is about capturing light, if we have the ability to take control of that light then we grow exponentially as photographers. More often than not the image is not about lens speed, sensor size, DR, MP's or AF, it is about the light.

neuroanatomist

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Re: New 50mm Sigma ? There are other options !
« Reply #104 on: April 15, 2014, 01:08:36 PM »
Quote
Photography is just a hobby for me & take photo of my kids around the house :)
This is hardly the kit list for someone who take pics of their kids at home
If you are not using that lot to generate some income then there is something wrong !

Photography is a hobby for me, too, and I also shoot photos of my kids around the house.  Here's one, with the 1D X and 600mm f/4L IS II…

EOS 1D X, EOS M2, lots of lenses
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Re: New 50mm Sigma ? There are other options !
« Reply #104 on: April 15, 2014, 01:08:36 PM »