November 28, 2014, 07:28:56 PM

Author Topic: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art Available for Preorder  (Read 10684 times)

EchoLocation

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Re: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art Available for Preorder
« Reply #45 on: April 11, 2014, 10:39:36 PM »
This lens sounds great, but i'm just a little surprised that nobody thinks the price is high at all.
I don't think it's crazy expensive, but it definitely doesn't strike me as the bargain that many people make it out to be.
What lenses are we comparing this with besides the Canon 1.2? Just a thought i'm having, I know the 50mm 1.4 Canon is old and poorly regarded but literally nobody is comparing these two lenses.
I had the old Sigma 50mm 1.4, and I LOVED it, the bokeh was awesome, and it was really sharp(I did have to return my first copy as it was very softttt.) But that lens was $400 new and worked fantastic for me for a couple years.
Is the new Sigma really twice as good as the old one?
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Re: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art Available for Preorder
« Reply #45 on: April 11, 2014, 10:39:36 PM »

sagittariansrock

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Re: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art Available for Preorder
« Reply #46 on: April 11, 2014, 10:51:43 PM »
What lenses are we comparing this with besides the Canon 1.2?

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jdramirez

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Re: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art Available for Preorder
« Reply #47 on: April 11, 2014, 11:13:45 PM »
This lens sounds great, but i'm just a little surprised that nobody thinks the price is high at all.
I don't think it's crazy expensive, but it definitely doesn't strike me as the bargain that many people make it out to be.
What lenses are we comparing this with besides the Canon 1.2? Just a thought i'm having, I know the 50mm 1.4 Canon is old and poorly regarded but literally nobody is comparing these two lenses.
I had the old Sigma 50mm 1.4, and I LOVED it, the bokeh was awesome, and it was really sharp(I did have to return my first copy as it was very softttt.) But that lens was $400 new and worked fantastic for me for a couple years.
Is the new Sigma really twice as good as the old one?

The problem with the canon f/1.2 is that it was sharp enough in the middle... so if you follow the rule of thirds... then you are probably cropping a good deal after the fact.  Also... to have the lens be sharp, you had to stop down to around f/2.8 or so.  Yes it has a magic bokeh per reports... but I'm not going to go into that.

Then you have the sigma... which is sharp wide open giving you an addition 2 stops of light.  It may or may not have a magic bokeh yet... that remains to be seen... and no other lens in this price range or lower can quite compete with the color/contrast/sharpness/and distortion that the sigma is bringing to the table except for the $4000 otus... which after tax, let's say it is $4240. 

So far the only critiques of the lens is that there is some manageable chromatic abberation, it is a touch heavy, and it doesn't have IS. 

I contend that you really don't need IS if you are shooting at 50mm, f1.4, and with the current batch of canon full frame sensors 6400 iso is quite usable.  It isn't quite night vision... but it is solid.

As for being heavy... then go out and buy a 50mm f/1.8 mkii... it is light and it is widely mediocre... well... it is good for the money, but it feels like a toy and there are more than a few that say it fell apart in their hands. 
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

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Radiating

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Re: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art Available for Preorder
« Reply #48 on: April 11, 2014, 11:59:50 PM »
This lens sounds great, but i'm just a little surprised that nobody thinks the price is high at all.
I don't think it's crazy expensive, but it definitely doesn't strike me as the bargain that many people make it out to be. What lenses are we comparing this with besides the Canon 1.2? Just a thought i'm having, I know the 50mm 1.4 Canon is old and poorly regarded but literally nobody is comparing these two lenses.
I had the old Sigma 50mm 1.4, and I LOVED it, the bokeh was awesome, and it was really sharp(I did have to return my first copy as it was very softttt.) But that lens was $400 new and worked fantastic for me for a couple years.
Is the new Sigma really twice as good as the old one?

Is the new Sigma really twice as good as the old one?

No. The new Sigma is more than twice as good as the old one. 240% better specifically.

If you're asking these kinds questions though I don't think you understand how important this Sigma lens is.

Sigma says it is positioning this lens to not even be remotely in competition with any other 50mm lens on the market. And all reviews have pointed to them being right. What that means is this 50mm lens makes all other non-zeiss competitors obsolete. It's like comparing a Mercedes AMG versus a snail in a race, it's just a different class.

The reason for this is that 50mm lenses have traditionally been of the double gauss (planar) design, which severely limits image quality at fast apertures. It's a very poor archaic design that results in around 4 times worse performance in every image clarity measurement. The reason for this is that to make a double gauss lens properly you would have to put elements inside of the mirror box to make the lens sharp. Because you can't put elements inside your mirror all 50mm lenses prior to 2014 for DSLRs have been soft.  The only upside to the double gauss design is a slightly more compact lens. There is literally no planar lens that performs even passably well wide open. The Zeiss Otus was the first retrofocal normal lens for full frame cameras and it showed there was a night and day difference compared to the double gauss design. The Sigma 50mm ART is the second.

Planar lenses have extremely poor performance wide open, lets use the lens rentals 50mm comparison as an example ( http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/01/the-great-50mm-shootout), which tested 23 planar normal lenses. At f/1.4 planar lenses achieved scores in the 300s and 400s in that test for average MTF50 resolution. For comparison the Zeiss Otus delivers average resolution of 800. That's just under 5 times more spacial resolution than the lens it supersedes, the Zeiss 1.4 Planar, @ f/1.4. (remember we have to square linear resolution data to get normal resolution)

If you look at other points of comparison you can see that planar 50mm lenses scored poorly in haziness/glowiness and purple fringing, and often scored poorly in chromatic aberration, usually by a factor of 3-5.

It doesn't take a genius to see why this is important. We just went from having the sharpest 50mm prime being literally the bottom of the barrel, delivering image quality so poor camera phones from several years ago beat them when they are wide open to having a lens that is one of the sharpest primes money can buy. It's like comparing unarmed chimpanzees with nuclear weapons. The lens doubles or triples everything we know about 50mm lenses at the least. This is the greatest improvement in image quality that has ever happened in DSLR photography.

So to get the single greatest improvement in a class of lenses for only $949 is the bargain of the century. Canon or Nikon would have charged you $3000 and still wouldn't be able to keep these in stock.



Double Gauss lens f/1.4 (Zeiss 1.4 Planar)

Retrofocal Lens f/1.4 (Sigma, 35mm 1.4 - remember the 50mm 1.4 ART is slightly better than this, but this makes for a clear comparison):
« Last Edit: April 12, 2014, 12:20:49 AM by Radiating »

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Re: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art Available for Preorder
« Reply #49 on: April 12, 2014, 12:14:02 AM »
Awesome! Just pre-ordered mine and can't wait to ditch my Canon 50mm f.14, assuming it lives up to its preliminary reviews.
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dilbert

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Re: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art Available for Preorder
« Reply #50 on: April 12, 2014, 12:20:01 AM »
...
So to get the single greatest improvement in a class of lenses for only $949 is the bargain of the century. Canon or Nikon would have charged you $3000.
...

To summarise, if Canon want to come out with a killer 50/1.4 lens that will replace their current 50/1.4 (and maybe 50/1.8), it needs to be:
1) cost less than $949 so that it is cheaper than the Sigma 50/1.4 Art
2) deliver better quality images than the 50/1.2L
3) provide at least IS and possibly weather sealing

... wait, no it doesn't ... all that Canon's next 50/1.4 lens will need is this:

1) a red ring around the lens.

and people will buy it in preference to the Sigma, regardless of price or performance.

sagittariansrock

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Re: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art Available for Preorder
« Reply #51 on: April 12, 2014, 02:07:59 AM »
...
So to get the single greatest improvement in a class of lenses for only $949 is the bargain of the century. Canon or Nikon would have charged you $3000.
...

To summarise, if Canon want to come out with a killer 50/1.4 lens that will replace their current 50/1.4 (and maybe 50/1.8), it needs to be:
1) cost less than $949 so that it is cheaper than the Sigma 50/1.4 Art
2) deliver better quality images than the 50/1.2L
3) provide at least IS and possibly weather sealing

... wait, no it doesn't ... all that Canon's next 50/1.4 lens will need is this:

1) a red ring around the lens.

and people will buy it in preference to the Sigma, regardless of price or performance.

I think you're being too cynical. Time will tell, but most consumers (not CR forum members) chose what works best for them.
I am hoping I get the Amazon lightning deal for this one (or be blessed with whatever luck JD is blessed...). Although I have to say, CanonPriceWatch is the best thing to have happened (or the worst, depending on your PoV).
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Re: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art Available for Preorder
« Reply #51 on: April 12, 2014, 02:07:59 AM »

9VIII

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Re: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art Available for Preorder
« Reply #52 on: April 12, 2014, 04:44:31 AM »
Thanks, JD, and I just found another review of sorts:
http://fstoppers.com/sigma-50mm-art-review

I read that earlier... Now it just comes down to pulling the trigger.  I think the worst thing in the world is that Amazon had the 35 art for 699 last christmas... so if I wait long enough, I can get the 50 art for 749 new... and that's going to drive me nuts. 

But it is only taking a loss on the lens if I ever decide to sell it... and I'm thinking it is hear to stay just like may 70-200 mkii and my 100L... and it would be nice to have a wide open sharp lens that isn't too long.  The 85 was practically useless indoors, and 35 feels too wide open for me... so 50mm is the goldielocks slice of perfection...

I'm so glad to hear someone else pointing out that 50mm definitely has advantages over 85mm. Earlier I almost posted a rant about one of my (admittedly few) experiences trying to shoot 85mm indoors. Frustrating to say the least.
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Re: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art Available for Preorder
« Reply #53 on: April 12, 2014, 04:50:53 AM »
Thanks, JD, and I just found another review of sorts:
http://fstoppers.com/sigma-50mm-art-review

I read that earlier... Now it just comes down to pulling the trigger.  I think the worst thing in the world is that Amazon had the 35 art for 699 last christmas... so if I wait long enough, I can get the 50 art for 749 new... and that's going to drive me nuts. 

But it is only taking a loss on the lens if I ever decide to sell it... and I'm thinking it is hear to stay just like may 70-200 mkii and my 100L... and it would be nice to have a wide open sharp lens that isn't too long.  The 85 was practically useless indoors, and 35 feels too wide open for me... so 50mm is the goldielocks slice of perfection...

I'm so glad to hear someone else pointing out that 50mm definitely has advantages over 85mm. Earlier I almost posted a rant about one of my (admittedly few) experiences trying to shoot 85mm indoors. Frustrating to say the least.


It depends on the amount of space indoors. But generally the 85mm would be more of a close-up portrait lens for indoors. You have to move around a lot unless you have studio space. The 50mm will allow you to add more than one person in your composition.  But this all may be different for each one of us. I was checking both focal lenghts and have decided that I will go for 50mm first. Looking forward to the Sigma release

Eldar

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Re: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art Available for Preorder
« Reply #54 on: April 12, 2014, 05:12:52 AM »
This just got too tempting, so I pushed the preorder button. Looking forward to do side by side tests with the Otus.

Radiating, thanks for taking the time to enlighten the rest of us (again). Interesting read!
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jdramirez

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Re: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art Available for Preorder
« Reply #55 on: April 12, 2014, 07:16:20 AM »
Awesome! Just pre-ordered mine and can't wait to ditch my Canon 50mm f.14, assuming it lives up to its preliminary reviews.

I'd probably put it in the market now... I would presume that people will try and sell it once they get their hands on the sigma art and do their side by side comparisons... but WE know it is better... so the sooner you can ditch the f/1.4... the better.
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100L-> 85mm f/1.8 USM-> 8mm -> 85mm f/1.2L mkii

jdramirez

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Re: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art Available for Preorder
« Reply #56 on: April 12, 2014, 07:31:57 AM »
To summarise, if Canon want to come out with a killer 50/1.4 lens that will replace their current 50/1.4 (and maybe 50/1.8), it needs to be:
1) cost less than $949 so that it is cheaper than the Sigma 50/1.4 Art
2) deliver better quality images than the 50/1.2L
3) provide at least IS and possibly weather sealing

... wait, no it doesn't ... all that Canon's next 50/1.4 lens will need is this:

1) a red ring around the lens.

and people will buy it in preference to the Sigma, regardless of price or performance.

I like to think that I know what goes on from the retail side of things with camera gear... and when the 35 art came out... I thought it would be a dagger for the 35L... but the 35L dipped in price a little and now it is back up to its all time high of $1479 US.  I know there will be rebates and the price will fluctuate... but I thought the 35 art would put some serious pressure on the 35L and I was wrong... ???

Even the resale value has held for the 35L... The resale for the 35 art hasn't plummeted... and it has remained around 780 +/-, but 1100 v. 780... a 300-400 difference for a lens that is supposed to outperform the more expensive one...

So I'm trying to apply what I learned about the above to the 50 art and the 50L.  But with the 35's... you can say the performance was comparable... so it was just another option available which is why the demand for either hasn't really changed much.  BUT the 50's are like night and day... which is why I am really curious about the art's bokeh.  If it can be described as magic... then that negates ALL of the 50L's claim to fame. 

As for the new Canon, it has to be in a different price range than the sigma 50... and that means they can still sell it at 499 and it will appeal to a different market than those looking to spend $1000 on a 50mm lens.
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100L-> 85mm f/1.8 USM-> 8mm -> 85mm f/1.2L mkii

jdramirez

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Re: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art Available for Preorder
« Reply #57 on: April 12, 2014, 07:46:12 AM »
This just got too tempting, so I pushed the preorder button. Looking forward to do side by side tests with the Otus.

Radiating, thanks for taking the time to enlighten the rest of us (again). Interesting read!

I look forward to your results.  I immediately eliminated the otus from consideration because of its pricetag... which is to say I can afford it... but it would have to be on my body 100% of the time to justify the cost.  And since I do a good deal of portraiture... ok... it would work... but the other good deal of my efforts are sports photography... and it wouldn't cause me to drop my 70-200 mkii in favor of it. 

But at $1000... I'm willing to not care about the percentages...
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100L-> 85mm f/1.8 USM-> 8mm -> 85mm f/1.2L mkii

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Re: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art Available for Preorder
« Reply #57 on: April 12, 2014, 07:46:12 AM »

jdramirez

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Re: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art Available for Preorder
« Reply #58 on: April 12, 2014, 07:53:15 AM »
I think you're being too cynical. Time will tell, but most consumers (not CR forum members) chose what works best for them.
I am hoping I get the Amazon lightning deal for this one (or be blessed with whatever luck JD is blessed...). Although I have to say, CanonPriceWatch is the best thing to have happened (or the worst, depending on your PoV).

I personally prefer how people just gravitate towards the Canon name brand.  It keeps my gear at a higher resale value... But the conclusion I've come to... is that Canon may cost more, but more often than not, it is well worth it.  There are some Canon lenses I don't like, but they tend to be all entry level and old... like the 28-135, or the 17-85... and that's not really fair. 

As for Amazon lightening... I don't think I can hold out that long.  I have that buy it now itch... and it feels like chiken pox... Must... wait... must be patient. 
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100L-> 85mm f/1.8 USM-> 8mm -> 85mm f/1.2L mkii

jdramirez

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Re: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art Available for Preorder
« Reply #59 on: April 12, 2014, 08:02:17 AM »
Thanks, JD, and I just found another review of sorts:
http://fstoppers.com/sigma-50mm-art-review

I read that earlier... Now it just comes down to pulling the trigger.  I think the worst thing in the world is that Amazon had the 35 art for 699 last christmas... so if I wait long enough, I can get the 50 art for 749 new... and that's going to drive me nuts. 

But it is only taking a loss on the lens if I ever decide to sell it... and I'm thinking it is hear to stay just like may 70-200 mkii and my 100L... and it would be nice to have a wide open sharp lens that isn't too long.  The 85 was practically useless indoors, and 35 feels too wide open for me... so 50mm is the goldielocks slice of perfection...

I'm so glad to hear someone else pointing out that 50mm definitely has advantages over 85mm. Earlier I almost posted a rant about one of my (admittedly few) experiences trying to shoot 85mm indoors. Frustrating to say the least.

I had the 85 f/1.8 as my main portrait lens when my baby was born 7 months ago... the 3 ft minimum focusing distance is what annoyed me.  The lens was excellent wide open (maybe that is overstating it... it was very good)  but I kept bumping up against the MFD... and it wasn't as if she was filling the frame... so I'm glad I have my 100L again.  But that isn't really a walk around focal length... I think the 50 on a full frame... might just hit the spot and I can retire my 24-105 for those duties. 

Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100L-> 85mm f/1.8 USM-> 8mm -> 85mm f/1.2L mkii

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Re: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art Available for Preorder
« Reply #59 on: April 12, 2014, 08:02:17 AM »