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Author Topic: Review: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art  (Read 29647 times)

Radiating

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Re: Review: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art
« Reply #105 on: April 16, 2014, 02:15:42 PM »
The EF 50 f/1.2L and EF 85 f/1.2 excel at portraiture, where bokeh is king, and excessive sharpness just gets smoothed away in post production. People don't want portraits of their pores, they want portraits of their faces.

I do photo editing professionally, and work with many professional photographer's images. It is incredibly easy to make the Sigma 50mm ART look like the Canon 50mm L. Just turn sharpening to zero, and add some blur and chromatic aberration to the Sigma. You can always reduce the amount of detail in an image and make it softer. It is easy to destroy information, but you cannot create detail out of thin air.

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Re: Review: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art
« Reply #105 on: April 16, 2014, 02:15:42 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Review: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art
« Reply #106 on: April 16, 2014, 02:30:16 PM »
The EF 50 f/1.2L and EF 85 f/1.2 excel at portraiture, where bokeh is king, and excessive sharpness just gets smoothed away in post production. People don't want portraits of their pores, they want portraits of their faces.

I do photo editing professionally, and work with many professional photographer's images. It is incredibly easy to make the Sigma 50mm ART look like the Canon 50mm L. Just turn sharpening to zero, and add some blur and chromatic aberration to the Sigma. You can always reduce the amount of detail in an image and make it softer. It is easy to destroy information, but you cannot create detail out of thin air.

So, you can faithfully replicate the 50L's rendering of OOF areas in terms of aesthetic quality?  Given that the number of aperture blades is an important factor in determining bokeh, what post-processing step/algorightm do you use to subtract one of the Sigma lens' 9 aperture blades so it has only the 8 blades of the Canon 50L?   ::)

Bokeh ≠ 'adding some blur'. 
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thepancakeman

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Re: Review: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art
« Reply #107 on: April 16, 2014, 04:01:37 PM »
Simple... most people would agree if cost isn't considered... And I think for me I want to see

Canon 50 f1.8 < Canon f1.4 < Sigma f1.4 < Canon 50L < Sigma 50 art < otus. 

But I understand it isn't that simple...

But it is that simple. 

The only problem is you need a different list for each of: weight, weather sealing, CA, corner sharpness, center sharpness, bokeh, color rendition, AF performance, cost, size, flare control, microcontrast, etc., etc.   :o

Eldar

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Re: Review: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art
« Reply #108 on: April 16, 2014, 04:09:01 PM »
I think it is a fair statement that Canon´s 50mm line up is getting a bit old. I have used the 50/1.2L for many years and I have been very happy with it. It adds a creamy and artistic dimension to images you don´t easily get from others.

But! It is quite clear that they need to upgrade these lenses to match what the competition is bringing out. The Otus is totally crushing every one of them, but at a very high price premium. The 50 Art is cheaper and even though it will not be as good as the Otus, it will still outperform every Canon lens by a significant margin. I have not seen enough to say that it will contest the bokeh of the 50/1.2L, but the 50/1.2L cannot contest the other qualities of the Sigma or Otus. It´s a bit like saying that a 16bit CD concept outperforms a 24 bit SACD concept (analogue part excluded). It does not.

I also believe that the 50 Art gave both Nikon and Canon something to chew on. They may well have planned the release of something a bit better than they have provided and probably add IS. But with the 50 Art out, they have to go back to the drawing board or alternatively risk losing the 50mm segment to someone else.
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Radiating

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Re: Review: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art
« Reply #109 on: April 16, 2014, 04:20:36 PM »
The EF 50 f/1.2L and EF 85 f/1.2 excel at portraiture, where bokeh is king, and excessive sharpness just gets smoothed away in post production. People don't want portraits of their pores, they want portraits of their faces.

I do photo editing professionally, and work with many professional photographer's images. It is incredibly easy to make the Sigma 50mm ART look like the Canon 50mm L. Just turn sharpening to zero, and add some blur and chromatic aberration to the Sigma. You can always reduce the amount of detail in an image and make it softer. It is easy to destroy information, but you cannot create detail out of thin air.

So, you can faithfully replicate the 50L's rendering of OOF areas in terms of aesthetic quality?  Given that the number of aperture blades is an important factor in determining bokeh, what post-processing step/algorightm do you use to subtract one of the Sigma lens' 9 aperture blades so it has only the 8 blades of the Canon 50L?   ::)

Bokeh ≠ 'adding some blur'.

That comment was in regard to someone saying that the 50 Art may render the in-focus areas too sharply and show too many pores. It is very easy to make pores less apparent and in focus areas softer. The most inexperienced novice should have no trouble making the in-focus areas of the 50A appear like the 50L. It took me 2 minutes to create a preset that does that.

Bokeh is a whole other animal. I actually have created bokeh from scratch and also created detail by hand painting it from scratch. It's not cheap to have that kind of work done. In fact it's cheaper to just buy the correct equipment in the first place then to have your editor invent detail and background blur.

I don't think we can make the call quite yet on which has clearly better bokeh but the 50A's bokeh looks very close to the 50L's. It's a much smaller difference than say the Canon 50mm 1.4 USM and the 50L.

neuroanatomist

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Re: Review: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art
« Reply #110 on: April 16, 2014, 04:22:58 PM »
...risk losing the 50mm segment to someone else.

The upper end of it, at any rate.  I suspect that Canon will make more revenue annually from sales of the 50/1.8 and 50/1.4 than Sigma and Zeiss will make from their new offerings combined.  The design and tooling costs for those two lenses are long since paid for, which also means they have a high profit margin.  I really don't think it would be too hard for Canon to sell eight of the 50/1.8 lenses for every Sigma 50/1.4 art that is sold...  Heck, I spent 25 minutes at the Calumet going out of business sale, and they sold three of the 50/1.8's during that time (and probably would have sold more, but they only had three left when I got there).
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neuroanatomist

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Re: Review: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art
« Reply #111 on: April 16, 2014, 04:28:09 PM »
The EF 50 f/1.2L and EF 85 f/1.2 excel at portraiture, where bokeh is king, and excessive sharpness just gets smoothed away in post production. People don't want portraits of their pores, they want portraits of their faces.

I do photo editing professionally, and work with many professional photographer's images. It is incredibly easy to make the Sigma 50mm ART look like the Canon 50mm L. Just turn sharpening to zero, and add some blur and chromatic aberration to the Sigma. You can always reduce the amount of detail in an image and make it softer. It is easy to destroy information, but you cannot create detail out of thin air.

So, you can faithfully replicate the 50L's rendering of OOF areas in terms of aesthetic quality?  Given that the number of aperture blades is an important factor in determining bokeh, what post-processing step/algorightm do you use to subtract one of the Sigma lens' 9 aperture blades so it has only the 8 blades of the Canon 50L?   ::)

Bokeh ≠ 'adding some blur'.

That comment was in regard to someone saying that the 50 Art may render the in-focus areas too sharply and show too many pores. It is very easy to make pores less apparent and in focus areas softer. The most inexperienced novice should have no trouble making the in-focus areas of the 50A appear like the 50L. It took me 2 minutes to create a preset that does that.

Bokeh is a whole other animal...

Please read again the comment to which you were replying, paying particular attention to the part I highlighted in red above.  NancyP mentioned bokeh before mentioning sharpness and pores.
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Re: Review: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art
« Reply #111 on: April 16, 2014, 04:28:09 PM »

persiannight

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Re: Review: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art
« Reply #112 on: April 16, 2014, 04:37:54 PM »
This is much the same as the 35L vs 35A debate.....  If you want a sharper lens with harsher bokeh go with the Sigma Art Lenses... if you want an overall smoother rendered pic go with the Canon equivalent.   Though the 35A is  sharper (I owned it for a few months) the 35L rendered the better image to my eyes...  Sharpness isn't everything.

jdramirez

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Re: Review: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art
« Reply #113 on: April 16, 2014, 05:18:11 PM »
This is much the same as the 35L vs 35A debate.....  If you want a sharper lens with harsher bokeh go with the Sigma Art Lenses... if you want an overall smoother rendered pic go with the Canon equivalent.   Though the 35A is  sharper (I owned it for a few months) the 35L rendered the better image to my eyes...  Sharpness isn't everything.

So you were a product tester?  How exactly do you go about getting on that list?
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

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Radiating

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Re: Review: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art
« Reply #114 on: April 17, 2014, 01:18:16 AM »
This is much the same as the 35L vs 35A debate.....  If you want a sharper lens with harsher bokeh go with the Sigma Art Lenses... if you want an overall smoother rendered pic go with the Canon equivalent.   Though the 35A is  sharper (I owned it for a few months) the 35L rendered the better image to my eyes...  Sharpness isn't everything.

I agree with your 35L vs 35A conclusion BUT honestly all this talk about the bokeh of the 50L being better seems like unfounded assumptions.

In every test I have seen the Sigma 50A outperforms the Canon 50L  in bokeh. The Sigma lacks the aberrations and flaws, and business that the Canon shows while delivering the same punchy contrast in the background blur.

It's like somehow people have already decided that the Canon has better bokeh despite having evidence that seems to be to the contrary.

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Re: Review: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art
« Reply #115 on: April 17, 2014, 06:16:48 AM »
This is much the same as the 35L vs 35A debate.....  If you want a sharper lens with harsher bokeh go with the Sigma Art Lenses... if you want an overall smoother rendered pic go with the Canon equivalent.   Though the 35A is  sharper (I owned it for a few months) the 35L rendered the better image to my eyes...  Sharpness isn't everything.

I agree with your 35L vs 35A conclusion BUT honestly all this talk about the bokeh of the 50L being better seems like unfounded assumptions.

In every test I have seen the Sigma 50A outperforms the Canon 50L  in bokeh. The Sigma lacks the aberrations and flaws, and business that the Canon shows while delivering the same punchy contrast in the background blur.

It's like somehow people have already decided that the Canon has better bokeh despite having evidence that seems to be to the contrary.

Well, that's an opinion of other photographers on this forum which is probably best kept to your self. Unless you want to single out someone specifically and start a flame war.

I have used a 50L for many years. Taken countless professional weddings and a number of landscapes with it.
I found for landscape work, there are sharper options, especially when stopped down. Professionals aren't particularly bothered is Sigma makes a slightly better optic than Canon... pros buy Canon for several reasons, they are generally built to a far higher standard. In 7 years of wedding photography I've never had an L lens fail on me. I abandoned Sigma several years ago due to their comparable fragility, heavy weight, poor flare control and inconsistent AF. I've owned 6 sigma EX lenses over the years and sold them all. 5 of them went back to Sigma due to poor reliability.

Sure Sigma may have made their new 50 and 35 to better specs...but I'm done with them as a brand, I won't trust my photographic business to their products anymore. I bought a 120-300 OS to see if they had improved and found all the old issues. So I re-sold that particular lens and I'm not even going to bother with the new 35 and 50...why? Because I've had 7 years + of sterling service from my Canon 50 and 35...so why introduce a new risk? I'm happy with the results I see and my photos and services are selling. Your mileage might vary.

persiannight

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Re: Review: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art
« Reply #116 on: April 17, 2014, 08:42:48 AM »
This is much the same as the 35L vs 35A debate.....  If you want a sharper lens with harsher bokeh go with the Sigma Art Lenses... if you want an overall smoother rendered pic go with the Canon equivalent.   Though the 35A is  sharper (I owned it for a few months) the 35L rendered the better image to my eyes...  Sharpness isn't everything.

So you were a product tester?  How exactly do you go about getting on that list?

 :-*

mackguyver

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Re: Review: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art
« Reply #117 on: April 17, 2014, 03:47:20 PM »
Look at these photos on 500px if you think I'm crazy.
I just ran this search while being logged into 500px and the results are very different and definitely NSFW  :-[.

I hope I didn't get anyone in trouble :) 
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Re: Review: Sigma 50mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art
« Reply #117 on: April 17, 2014, 03:47:20 PM »