November 27, 2014, 08:28:10 PM

Author Topic: Canon 70D vs. 6D - Which is the better "Do-It-All" camera?  (Read 9965 times)

Marsu42

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 5122
  • ML-66d / 100L / 70-300L / 17-40L / 600rts
    • View Profile
    • 6D positive spec list
Re: Canon 70D vs. 6D - Which is the better "Do-It-All" camera?
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2014, 10:36:42 AM »
Learn something new every day.  ;D ;D

Sure, just ask me :-> :-> ... if you're out to mis-understand me you're welcome, this gives some fire to the thread :-)

Actually serious pro photogs did weddings long before 5d2 days with even less capable af systems or even mf, and in the 1800s couples had to pose motionless for some 10 seconds in front of the camera.

Alas, tempora mutantur, nos et mutamur in illis, and the question is if you can fulfill today's client expectations and survive as a wedding pro w/ yesterday's equipment. I concur 2/3 of being a pro photog is people skills and if clients pay little they cannot expect 2x1dx in the photog's bag, but I simply don't feel the 6d's af is reliable enough. Given your general amount of money you handle as a pro photog, spending this €1000 more for a 5d3 might be a sound investment.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon 70D vs. 6D - Which is the better "Do-It-All" camera?
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2014, 10:36:42 AM »

MichaelHodges

  • Canon 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 402
    • View Profile
Re: Canon 70D vs. 6D - Which is the better "Do-It-All" camera?
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2014, 11:01:23 AM »
Quote
The 7d is notorious for the imprecise af system, but op is talking about a 5 year newer *70d* (read the op).

It's the same focus system, just a bit neutered. Oh, and I agree with you concerning the consistency. Pretty terrible at telephoto.

Quote
Did you read the 7d manual if that's what you get :-p? Of course I believe you, but generalizing that the 6d gives more keepers for action shots is really stretching it, I suspect even most 6d enthusiasts would disagree here. Given that the 70d has nearly double the fps of the 6d, even *if* some more shots are out of focus (which I somehow doubt) you'll still end up with more keepers.

I've used both cameras in the field for ursine and ungulates, side by side over thousands of images.  The 6D is the better camera for everything.  The 7D focus system only seems to do well with high contrast subjects like brightly colored sports jerseys at telephoto.  There's something about it having to grab fur and feather that doesn't work all that well, at least on my copies. 

Now, the 7D does pretty well shooting high contrast objects (IE not fur and feather) in daytime conditions, but then again, what camera doesn't do well in these conditions? If someone wants to shoot sports or racing from 9 am to 4 pm, great camera. But for dawn and dusk fur and feather, the 6D embarrasses the 7D. The 70D, with my trial runs, felt similar, and  I wasn't surprised to learn it has the 7D's focus system. Which means I won't be buying it, which is a shame.

Quote
True, 70d "only" works up to -0.5lv - but did you calculate how little light this already is? In these conditions, I wouldn't be tempted to continue shooting with a crop sensor anyway (ymmv).


The camera last to come out at dawn, and first to be bagged at dusk is probably not the better camera within the context of wildlife photography.



Quote
The 70d is not a low light camera, which definitely limits the op's requirements for dawn/dusk shots - the very reason I bought a 6d. My advice is just not to underestimate the 6d's limits concerning video and tracking, you get what you pay for - the 6d is not a "mini 5d3". The question is what corners the op wants to cut - though since he didn't reply since then he won't read these replies anyway.

I agree that the 6D is not as responsive as the 70D and 7D. But what it lacks in responsiveness, it makes up for in sheer IQ, dusk/dawn usage, fur and feather, and IMHO, a higher keeper rate even in action shots during critical wildlife times.

 I didn't want to think this was true, trust me. How could a lowly, slow, cut down bottom-end Canon FF outperform the top tier crop bodies? I prefer the build of the 7D. I prefer the flip out screen of the 70D, FPS, and buffer. But in the end, when I went through gigs of images, it was very clear, even on similar action subjects, which the better camera was.

Marsu42

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 5122
  • ML-66d / 100L / 70-300L / 17-40L / 600rts
    • View Profile
    • 6D positive spec list
Re: Canon 70D vs. 6D - Which is the better "Do-It-All" camera?
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2014, 11:13:39 AM »
It's the same focus system, just a bit neutered. Oh, and I agree with you concerning the consistency. Pretty terrible at telephoto.

I didn't read up on the 70d, but I wouldn't be surprised if it does better than 7d - it's got another af chip setup and Canon seems to have improved af accuracy lately, for example 5d2->6d which also nearly share the same af system. Don't forget the 7d is 5 years old, and this lack of fine-tuning is probably where it shows.

I didn't want to think this was true, trust me. How could a lowly, slow, cut down bottom-end Canon FF outperform the top tier crop bodies?

Fyi: I own a 60d which is basically a cut-down 7d, but the 60d has less banding and a bit more precise af system (though less af points and a crippled firmware). Next to macro (crop = deeper dof = good) I am always surprised how snappy the 60d is vs. 6d when I use it esp. with the f2.8 100L. I just don't get his "hit or miss" feeling like with the 6d. And no, I don't think my 6d is broken :-p

Problem of course is that the crop sensor is mediocre even at iso 800 and starts getting terrible above, that's why I bought the 6d - otherwise I had to stop shooting at dusk or dawn. But for simple daylight shots, w/o thin dof requirements and no need for very heavy postprocessing I'm still saving shutter cycles on my 6d because the 60d does the job.

MichaelHodges

  • Canon 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 402
    • View Profile
Re: Canon 70D vs. 6D - Which is the better "Do-It-All" camera?
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2014, 11:53:59 AM »
Quote
I didn't read up on the 70d, but I wouldn't be surprised if it does better than 7d - it's got another af chip setup and Canon seems to have improved af accuracy lately, for example 5d2->6d which also nearly share the same af system. Don't forget the 7d is 5 years old, and this lack of fine-tuning is probably where it shows.

I've read the 70D has major focus issues, too. It's all over the net, unfortunately. Sad to hear this, but I'm not surprised based on my 7D experience.

Quote
Fyi: I own a 60d which is basically a cut-down 7d, but the 60d has less banding and a bit more precise af system (though less af points and a crippled firmware). Next to macro (crop = deeper dof = good) I am always surprised how snappy the 60d is vs. 6d when I use it esp. with the f2.8 100L. I just don't get his "hit or miss" feeling like with the 6d. And no, I don't think my 6d is broken :-p

Problem of course is that the crop sensor is mediocre even at iso 800 and starts getting terrible above, that's why I bought the 6d - otherwise I had to stop shooting at dusk or dawn. But for simple daylight shots, w/o thin dof requirements and no need for very heavy postprocessing I'm still saving shutter cycles on my 6d because the 60d does the job.

The 60D was/is a real gem by Canon. It didn't have the focus issues of 7D/70D, and just produced better RAW files from what I've seen. If it had MFA, I'd own it.  I definitely miss my 50D, too.

Also, I hope the 6d shutter cycle isn't too weak. Love that camera.

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • **********
  • Posts: 14983
    • View Profile
Re: Canon 70D vs. 6D - Which is the better "Do-It-All" camera?
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2014, 01:35:03 PM »
True, 70d "only" works up to -0.5lv - but did you calculate how little light this already is? In these conditions, I wouldn't be tempted to continue shooting with a crop sensor anyway (ymmv).

This point is often missed by people touting the low-light AF sensitivity of the 6D.  Sure, it can AF at -3 EV.  One example of settings yielding a -3 EV exposure would be 1/15 s, f/2.8, ISO 102400…unlikely to prroduce a usable result in most situations, and offering no practical advantage over the -2 EV sensitivity of the 5DIII/1D X.  As you state, dropping to -0.5 EV for the 70D still puts you in the likely unusable image category from an IQ standpoint – you can achieve focus, but the resulting image has motion blur, too little DoF, and/or too much noise.
EOS 1D X, EOS M, and lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • **********
  • Posts: 14983
    • View Profile
Re: Canon 70D vs. 6D - Which is the better "Do-It-All" camera?
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2014, 01:39:08 PM »
I've read the 70D has major focus issues, too. It's all over the net, unfortunately. Sad to hear this, but I'm not surprised based on my 7D experience.

LOL.  Sure, everything on the internet is true.  Whatever you do, don't Google "<your make/model car> engine problems" or else instead of buying your next lens, you'll be buying a new car for fear that yours is about to die at any moment.  Oops, did you just run that same search for the cars you were considering buying?  Hope you like walking…   ::)
EOS 1D X, EOS M, and lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

MichaelHodges

  • Canon 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 402
    • View Profile
Re: Canon 70D vs. 6D - Which is the better "Do-It-All" camera?
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2014, 04:28:18 PM »
I've read the 70D has major focus issues, too. It's all over the net, unfortunately. Sad to hear this, but I'm not surprised based on my 7D experience.

LOL.  Sure, everything on the internet is true.  Whatever you do, don't Google "<your make/model car> engine problems" or else instead of buying your next lens, you'll be buying a new car for fear that yours is about to die at any moment.  Oops, did you just run that same search for the cars you were considering buying?  Hope you like walking…   ::)

Well, that's an "appeal to extremes" logical fallacy if I ever saw one.  ;)

Because the internet is the internet doesn't mean there isn't faulty gear.




canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon 70D vs. 6D - Which is the better "Do-It-All" camera?
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2014, 04:28:18 PM »

Zlyden

  • Rebel SL1
  • ***
  • Posts: 86
    • View Profile
Re: Canon 70D vs. 6D - Which is the better "Do-It-All" camera?
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2014, 04:42:22 PM »
Well... the discussion is very interesting, but... we still do not have any information from OP about:

1) Why he does not like T2i anymore? (Why he wants to upgrade it?)

2) Why he needs "Do-It-All" camera? (I do not think such thing exists, unless it's some future "iPhone 7S".)

3) Why he uses this very strange/weird/crazy lens collection on APS-C camera (like 50 + 70-200)?

G7 | EOS M | 400D | 6D
EF: 50/1.8 II | 17-40 | 24-105 | 70-300DO / EF-S: 10-22 | 18-55 | 18-55 IS | Sigma 30/1.4 (old one) / EF-M: 11-22 | 18-55 | 22
I also own few Canon flashes, remotes, blends, bags, cases (including waterproof one) and even batteries! :)

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • **********
  • Posts: 14983
    • View Profile
Re: Canon 70D vs. 6D - Which is the better "Do-It-All" camera?
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2014, 05:13:24 PM »
I've read the 70D has major focus issues, too. It's all over the net, unfortunately. Sad to hear this, but I'm not surprised based on my 7D experience.

LOL.  Sure, everything on the internet is true.  Whatever you do, don't Google "<your make/model car> engine problems" or else instead of buying your next lens, you'll be buying a new car for fear that yours is about to die at any moment.  Oops, did you just run that same search for the cars you were considering buying?  Hope you like walking…   ::)

Well, that's an "appeal to extremes" logical fallacy if I ever saw one.  ;)

Because the internet is the internet doesn't mean there isn't faulty gear.

The "major focusing issues" that you've read about "all over the Internet" seem to have come from two people who were able to demonstrate legitimate problems with their 70D, followed by a whole bunch of other people who performed inadequate and inconclusive testing, but still determined they had a problem with their cameras (which they may have, except the problem isn't with the hardware but rather with the person holding the camera).  Of those two individuals, one of them subsequently reported that he had sent his camera in for service, and Canon found it to be effective.

Two people able to document a problem among the huge number of cameras produced, but it's "all over the Internet" and people should avoid buying the camera because of this 'huge problem'.  But hey, if a few forum posts support your own bias, they must be true! Oh well, that's the Internet for you…  ::)
EOS 1D X, EOS M, and lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

MichaelHodges

  • Canon 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 402
    • View Profile
Re: Canon 70D vs. 6D - Which is the better "Do-It-All" camera?
« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2014, 05:38:27 PM »
The "major focusing issues" that you've read about "all over the Internet" seem to have come from two people who were able to demonstrate legitimate problems with their 70D, followed by a whole bunch of other people who performed inadequate and inconclusive testing, but still determined they had a problem with their cameras (which they may have, except the problem isn't with the hardware but rather with the person holding the camera).  Of those two individuals, one of them subsequently reported that he had sent his camera in for service, and Canon found it to be effective.

Two people able to document a problem among the huge number of cameras produced, but it's "all over the Internet" and people should avoid buying the camera because of this 'huge problem'.  But hey, if a few forum posts support your own bias, they must be true! Oh well, that's the Internet for you…  ::)


So you know for certain that only two 70D's have focus issues?  You must be extremely busy.

traingineer

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 193
    • View Profile
7D | 24-70mm F2.8 I | 50mm F1.8 II

Don Haines

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 3480
  • Posting cat pictures on the internet since 1986
    • View Profile
Re: Canon 70D vs. 6D - Which is the better "Do-It-All" camera?
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2014, 08:46:21 PM »
Well... the discussion is very interesting, but... we still do not have any information from OP about:

1) Why he does not like T2i anymore? (Why he wants to upgrade it?)

2) Why he needs "Do-It-All" camera? (I do not think such thing exists, unless it's some future "iPhone 7S".)

3) Why he uses this very strange/weird/crazy lens collection on APS-C camera (like 50 + 70-200)?

The 70-200 (any variant) is a far superior longer lens than any of the APS-C lenses. It's probably the most used lens with my 60D.... It gives great reach on a crop body and (the F4 IS version anyway) is light enough to be easily carried around and fits into a smaller sized pelican case.

Image is heavily cropped and taken from a canoe today with a 60D and 70-200F4IS.
The best camera is the one in your hands

David_in_Seattle

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 74
    • View Profile
Re: Canon 70D vs. 6D - Which is the better "Do-It-All" camera?
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2014, 08:49:53 PM »
Did you read the original post?  The guy is debating on purchasing the 70D or the 6D and cannot afford the 5Dmk3.

Did you read the original post? The guy is thinking about shooting video and sports and is trying to decide between a 70d and a 6d, the latter can only be called "very mediocre" for these purposes.


That's why I pointed out the 70D for his needs in videography and sports while I recommended the 6D for his wife's wedding and portrait photography.

Here's the first paragraph of my original response:
"If your wife is getting more serious about wedding and portraiture photography then the 6D is the better choice.  However, if you're getting paid for recording dance and sports then the 70D's dual pixel AF system for video is a huge improvement over any previous DSLR."

My point was that given his budget, he has to decide whether his wife's need or his own needs in a camera are a higher priority.
David Cuerpo, Jr. | Media Producer | Expedia Inc.
Cameras: 1Dx, 5Dmk3, 60D
Lenses: 8-15 Fisheye, 16-35 f2.8, 17-55 f2.8 IS, 24-70 f2.8 v2, 17 TSE, 24 TSE, 50 f1.2, 85 f1.2, 90 TSE, 100 f2.8 IS, 70-200 f2.8 IS v2, 200 f2 IS, 300 f2.8 IS

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon 70D vs. 6D - Which is the better "Do-It-All" camera?
« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2014, 08:49:53 PM »

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • **********
  • Posts: 14983
    • View Profile
Re: Canon 70D vs. 6D - Which is the better "Do-It-All" camera?
« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2014, 11:19:27 PM »
The 7d is notorious for the imprecise af system
And where does it say the 7D is commonly known for an imprecise AF system? ???

All over the Internet, obviously.   ;)  The 40D was a better camera anyway, everyone on the Internet said so when the 7D came out.  Now...my 7D, which I used for years to shoot birds, wildlife, and other subjects with which my 5DII's AF (which performs much like the 6D's AF) couldn't keep up, that camera didn't have a notoriously imprecise AF.  My Subaru's engine is just fine, too.  Could something 'all over the Internet' possibly be wrong? 

Obviously, any manufacturing/QC process lets a few defective units out – the cost of manufacturing perfection is unsupportable.  But the vast majority of people who get a properly functioning product don't inundate multiple forums with posts about how perfect their cameras are.  Advising against purchasing a product because of a few (relative to units sold) complaints on the Internet is foolish.
EOS 1D X, EOS M, and lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

Zlyden

  • Rebel SL1
  • ***
  • Posts: 86
    • View Profile
Re: Canon 70D vs. 6D - Which is the better "Do-It-All" camera?
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2014, 12:59:40 AM »
Image is heavily cropped and taken from a canoe today with a 60D and 70-200F4IS.

Wow! Cool!

Is this scene a 'sporting event' or a 'wedding'?  ;D
(Why wedding can not be classified as sporting event, anyway?)
G7 | EOS M | 400D | 6D
EF: 50/1.8 II | 17-40 | 24-105 | 70-300DO / EF-S: 10-22 | 18-55 | 18-55 IS | Sigma 30/1.4 (old one) / EF-M: 11-22 | 18-55 | 22
I also own few Canon flashes, remotes, blends, bags, cases (including waterproof one) and even batteries! :)

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon 70D vs. 6D - Which is the better "Do-It-All" camera?
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2014, 12:59:40 AM »