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Author Topic: T2i vs. 60D vs. 5dMKII  (Read 15367 times)

davethomas

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Re: T2i vs. 60D vs. 5dMKII
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2011, 12:10:34 PM »
Here's my 2 cents.

I've got a 550D (T2i to you North Americans) and it's great, image and video quality comparable to the 7D (controls not as good). The screen is not great though and the articulated LCD on the 60D is worth its weight in gold. That alone would make me buy it. Build quality isn't great on the T2I but it is very cheap.

Lens wise, I love my cheap Canon 50mm F1.8 for video. It's plastic, it feels cheap (it is cheap!) but it looks great! Be warned though Shallow DOF is very hard to manage for shooting video handheld, on a tripod it works fine but you'll need a DSLR rig and follow focus to make the best of it.

I use my 7D and 550D almost exclusively for documentary film-making and have for the last 2 years. I recently bought a Sigma 24-70 F2.8 which is almost as good as the Canon 24-70L but I paid a third of the price second hand (well worth looking out for). The build quality and autofocus isn't as good but the F2.8 is a great starter lens and perfect for most video use. A 100mm F2.8 is a good idea as well, as is a 30mm Sigma F1.4 all great for video lenses. The essential one is the 24-70 as you can use that almost all the time and keep it in focus!

Sound wise you can plug in a Rode Video Mic, great quality and cheap. Or do it the best way and get a Zoom H4N handy recorder with a radio mic or lapel mic (which is what I do). Remember to look into how you'll edit it, there's millions of options now, Premiere and Sony Vegas will do it natively, FCP you'll have to transcode the footage before you start.

Whatever you buy will be great! Also remember to download some picture styles as the built in ones aren't the best for video!


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Re: T2i vs. 60D vs. 5dMKII
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2011, 12:10:34 PM »

J Live

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Re: T2i vs. 60D vs. 5dMKII
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2011, 03:16:10 PM »
As the saying goes 'invest in the glass, not the bodies' - and I would have to agree with it. You will probably switch your body every 3 to 4 years, whereas good lenses should last 15 years +.

I really don't think the Canon Rebel line is up to the task you want it for - I'm not sure about the T3, I've never seen it but if it can't shoot native ISOs like the T2i can't, forget it. The 60D is a good entry level body and i'd start with that, I would encourage eventually a 2nd body (for both safety and 2 camera interviews) so if you eventually get a 5D, you won't have to throw out your 60D, you'll still get a ton of use out of it. As far as people talking about better or worse 'autofocus', you really have to believe me that in the video world, autofocus is never used, so any kind of 80 point autofocus argument is simply not applicable to what you are wanting to use it for - and 'servo zoom during shooting' don't get me started on how useless that feature is.  ;D

As far as lenses go, Unlike most 'pro' video cameras, which essentially have one 24 - 500 mm lens (and a wide-eye adaptor you can pop on the front), that's simply not an option in the DSLR video world for anything decent quality. So eventually, you will need several lenses. But to start I would say either the 24-105 f4 L or the 17-55 2.8 IS if you plan on shooting lots of handheld. The advantage of the L series is the build quality & if you eventually get a FF body it will be very useful with that, the drawback is you don't have a wide lens (38mm on crop camera) and in video you really do need that option. The advantage of the 17-55 is you do get that wide angle you will need and you get a 2.8. The Disadvantages of this lens is the build quality, no weather proofing, limited focal range and you can't use it on a full frame camera down the road.

I do a ton of handheld shooting so IS is really essential for me, as is a good viewfinder like Zacuto (part of your budget?) but if you think you won't be doing much handheld I would recommend an L series 2.8 like 16-55 or something so you can use on any future camera. You get great build quality, your wide angle but not much telephoto - but I still think you're wide options are more important initially than your telephotos - in some cases you can move closer to get your nice portrait CUs etc, but you can't back thru a wall to get a wider shot.

Also, since you want to do docs and lots of interviews you are going to need approx $2K for the audio gear you need although pro most sound guys would even scoff at that number saying that's what they pay for 1 mic. I in no way mean to get preachy, but most people new to video greatly underestimate the importance of getting good sound.
If you have the best lit/looking video but crappy audio, your interviews, and therefore your project since interviews are the backbone, is useless. But if you record great audio and you leave the lens cap on, you could still create a great doc. from the audio and b-Roll cover. So you really need to budget that into your kit - you'll need Mics (more than one type for different situations), headphones, XLR cables, boom poles, windsocks, & external recorder(s) - I always travel with 2, explaining to client that your interview is not usable because your $200 recorder broke after they've flown you halfway around the world and put you up in hotels is not a conversation I want to have - luckily good microphones like good lenses should last over 15 years, one of the AKG shotgun mics I use is over 20 years old and still sounds fantastic. Don't scrimp on the headphones either, if there's a buzz or hum in the room because you're crossing your audio cables over AC cables or getting wireless interference from PA systems or cellphones you won't hear it with iPod earbuds - again, hearing that can take seconds to fix on set but missing it can ruin your entire interview - which of course you won't realize until your in the edit suite - it's not just your time (& maybe clients money wasted), there are moments you capture in interviews you can never re-create a 2nd time even if that particular person did agree to let you do it again.

Sorry went long on the audio note - but since you're not getting into video to shoot HD stock or music videos, I'd say get a T2i and a used $100 50mm 1.8 lens if it means you otherwise can't afford decent audio gear for your interviews (or hire a sound person) - Good luck!

mackguyver

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Re: T2i vs. 60D vs. 5dMKII
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2011, 03:51:06 PM »
I own all three and would recommend the T2i and good glass or (if you have good lenses), the 60D and more good lenses.  Get the 5Dmk2 only if you need full frame or shoot a lot of low-light work.

K-amps

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Re: T2i vs. 60D vs. 5dMKII
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2011, 03:54:19 PM »
As the saying goes 'invest in the glass, not the bodies' - and I would have to agree with it. You will probably switch your body every 3 to 4 years, whereas good lenses should last 15 years +.

---edited----

Also, since you want to do docs and lots of interviews you are going to need approx $2K for the audio gear you need although pro most sound guys would even scoff at that number saying that's what they pay for 1 mic. I in no way mean to get preachy, but most people new to video greatly underestimate the importance of getting good sound.

+1 on both counts especially on Audio.

I was an audio guy before I got into the photography thing.... you can get kilobuck mics and gear, but a $250 budget can land you decent gear... the point still stands for anyone who grew-up in the mp3 era... never skimp on the audio, if someone does not like your video, they can look elsewhere, but if your audio is crappy, they have nowhere to hide.
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Zuuyi

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Re: T2i vs. 60D vs. 5dMKII
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2011, 04:03:56 PM »
If you have around $2500 in funds.

Get a CLP 60D for $600 + taxes

Get a Tamron 28-75/2.8 $400

Get a Canon 70-200/4 $675

Get a Canon 50/1.8 $100

Get a Sigma 30/1.4 $400

Get a Canon 85/1.8 $400


If you really want a 5d try to wait out until CLP gives the discount on the 5d2 again; because then you can get a Refurb one for $1600

Get a Canon 50/1.8
Tamron 28-75/2.8
and  Possibly a 70-200/4 when you can afford it.

I'm going the 5d path when they allow CLP 20% (broken camera) discount on it again.

wickidwombat

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Re: T2i vs. 60D vs. 5dMKII
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2011, 08:31:00 PM »
DO NOT waste your money on anything from tamron it will make you want to slit your wrists
they produce absolutely the biggest load of rubbish around you may as well set fire to your money
I got a tamron lens and was so appalled at the horrid build terrible image quality massive vignetting even on a crop sensor i sent it back and they exchanged it for a genuine canon lens.

If $ are an issue get the cheaper body for now and good glass, shoot for a year or so and wait till the new 5D model comes out then upgrade.
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whatta

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Re: T2i vs. 60D vs. 5dMKII
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2011, 04:50:29 AM »
just one question:

is there ANY difference between the AF of 60d vs AF of the rebels from 400d (to 600d)
IF I only use the manually selected central AF point?
(cross type f2/8)

thanks!
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Re: T2i vs. 60D vs. 5dMKII
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2011, 04:50:29 AM »

jasonmillard81

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REPLY FROM CANON!
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2011, 04:59:38 PM »
This is what Canon says about this issue...any thoughts?:

"Thank you for your inquiry about the EOS 5D Mark II, EOS 60D and EOS
Digital Rebel T2i.  We value you as a Canon customer and appreciate the
opportunity to assist you.

Of each of these, the EOS 5D Mark II and EOS 60D are the better choices.
The EOS 5D Mark II is the best choice because it has the larger image
sensor, so it manages the amount of noise a little better.  Also, it has
all of the video options available that some other models do not have.

Video from each of these is still the same resolution and compression,
so there is not much difference except for what I mentioned above about
the larger image sensor.  The EOS 60D does have one feature that you may
find very useful and that is the LCD can move around to different
positions.  If I had the choice, and many others may agree, I would say
that saving a little of the cost on the body and investing in the higher
quality lenses is important if you had to choose between the two.  Both
the EOS 60D and the EOS 5D Mark II will still produce great quality
video."

Edwin Herdman

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Re: REPLY FROM CANON!
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2011, 05:12:55 PM »
One thing to consider is that the 5D's sensor, while high resolution, captures the central portion with lower resolution than you would get from one of the cameras with an APS-C size sensor.  Another way of putting it:  The APS-C sensors make all your lenses appear "longer," and appear to make the area of deep focus larger.  This could be good or bad depending on what you're doing:  Wildlife (especially bird) photographers tend to like the APS-C cameras for the extra resolution centered around the middle of a lens, while landscape and building photographers generally need the extra degrees of view using their wide lenses on a wide camera.  The full frame sensor camera (5D Mark II) also has better dynamic range characteristics, in addition to the better low-light performance, and a larger viewfinder (the T2i's viewfinder uses mirrors, and will be a bit dimmer than the 5D's and 60D's).  Of the three cameras you mention, the 60D is said to have an autofocus system at least equal to that of the 5D, and possibly better.  The 7D would be the best in terms of specs alone.

dilbert

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Re: REPLY FROM CANON!
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2011, 06:11:18 PM »
One thing to consider is that the 5D's sensor, while high resolution, captures the central portion with lower resolution than you would get from one of the cameras with an APS-C size sensor.

FWIW, the sensor in the 5D Mark2 has approximately the same pixel density as the 20D and that was an 8MP camera.

But the "extra pixel" argument only works when you are zoom'ing beyond the range that you would use on the 5D. For example, if you've got a 70-300L and you're zoomed to say 150mm on a 7D to fill the viewfinder with a bird, then you could also take that shot at close to 300mm on FF and you'd get better pixel coverage on the 5D. Where it works better for birders is when the subject is maybe 1/4 of the sensor and they're zoom'd out to a full 300mm on the 70-300L. Then they get better coverage of the subject in terms of pixels.

Edwin Herdman

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Re: REPLY FROM CANON!
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2011, 04:06:11 PM »
That seems accurate, but less easily understandable than simply pointing out that the APS-C sensors both make lenses appear "longer" and that the portion of the frame they cover offers more resolution than on the current FF camera (as you say, in terms of pixel pitch the 5D is stuck in 2004, all other things being ignored).  It is confusing to say "when the subject is maybe 1/4 of the sensor" because you haven't specified which sensor - I suppose I could have made my lead sentence a bit longer (something I normally try to avoid!) by adding "...although the APS-C sensor will have no leeway for cropping."  However, I could say the same of tallying up every other pro and con of APS-C compared to FF, which would be too much information to dump in one sentence.  I have to take things one variable at a time when possible.

samueljay

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Re: T2i vs. 60D vs. 5dMKII
« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2011, 06:26:49 PM »
Wow, hearing all this praise for the T2i is awesome and echoes my thoughts, I just got mine on Friday, and have been having so much fun with it. I have come from film, and what I like the most is how easy the transition has been from film to digital. All the settings I would adjust when taking a photo on my minolta are on my new Canon DSLR, and I've been able to jump straight into full manual mode. I had no idea how metering would work on digital, but it's actually really intuitive, and I love how your settings all come up when you look through the viewfinder.

Hm, I went off topic, what I mean today is how surprised I was with this camera. I never expected the image quality and video to be so good! I'm using Canon's 50mm f/1.8 ii lens (the cheap plastic one) and can't believe how good the toyish lens actually is :)
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RichST

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Re: T2i vs. 60D vs. 5dMKII
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2011, 01:35:22 PM »
Unless you have to have moire-free video immediately I'd get the cheapest body you can and then sell it next year when the Digic V-based DSLRs start appearing. For low-moire video from Canon I think the only option right now is the 5DII+that special filter (can't remember the name).

The lenses are going to be what matters in the long run, in 5 years all the cameras you can buy today will be way antiquated in the video department. I'd only get the GH2 if you absolutely have to have sharp, essentially moire-free video immediately and you don't need many lenses or are happy with old manual lenses (of course you can sell it when Canon releases its next-generation DSLRs if you haven't dumped a small fortune into m4/3). Canon's vast lens arsenal and commitment to video make it the best choice if you're in this for the long haul

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Re: T2i vs. 60D vs. 5dMKII
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2011, 01:35:22 PM »

Axilrod

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Re: T2i vs. 60D vs. 5dMKII
« Reply #28 on: November 08, 2011, 01:47:51 PM »
Everyone is making great suggestions/recommendations, but no one is mentioning the fact that dslrs are not great for documentaries.  It's hard to run and gun and you're limited to 12 minute clips, which can ruin a great interview.  Just a thought, but if you have to get a DSLR go witha 60d.
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jasonmillard81

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Re: T2i vs. 60D vs. 5dMKII
« Reply #29 on: November 08, 2011, 09:06:42 PM »
If DSLR's stink then what would you recommend?  I sold my Canon HFS20 as it had a "soccer" mom feel to it with no DOF or cinematic quality.  It did better with action shots, audio, and long filming.

I could see doing an interview with a 12-minute max be problematic.  Are there any workarounds to this?  Also are there any workarounds to moire/aliasing?

Or am I better off getting a GH2 and learning how to make it "cinematic" looking in post-production?

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Re: T2i vs. 60D vs. 5dMKII
« Reply #29 on: November 08, 2011, 09:06:42 PM »