October 23, 2014, 08:42:21 AM

Author Topic: DXOMark Compares the Sigma 50 f/1.4 Art to Zeiss 55 f/1.4 Otus  (Read 4510 times)

dilbert

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Re: DXOMark Compares the Sigma 50 f/1.4 Art to Zeiss 55 f/1.4 Otus
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2014, 08:52:30 PM »
Wonder if this lens will be eligible for Sigma's "mount conversion" service?

I'm surprised that so far nobody has said DxO's results are meaningless because they don't represent bokeh in their tests results anywhere! But at least the first post on this thread doesn't disappoint with the expected putting down of DxO.

When DxO get a Nikon mount copy of this lens, I think we'll see a much better representation of its capabilities. In at least one score, the "megapixel" thing, the scores are obviously limited to what Canon cameras can provide.

Compared to the 50/1.2L

NameCanon 50/1.2LSigma 50/1.4A
Camera5D Mk III5D Mark III
Sharpness1621
Transmission1.4TStop1.7TStop
Distortion0.4%0.1%
Vignetting-2.4EV-1.5EV
Chr Aberration20µm6µm
« Last Edit: April 17, 2014, 09:41:11 PM by dilbert »

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Re: DXOMark Compares the Sigma 50 f/1.4 Art to Zeiss 55 f/1.4 Otus
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2014, 08:52:30 PM »

jdramirez

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Re: DXOMark Compares the Sigma 50 f/1.4 Art to Zeiss 55 f/1.4 Otus
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2014, 09:05:42 PM »

I'm surprised that so far nobody has said DxO's results are meaningless because they don't represent bokeh in their tests results anywhere! But at least the first post on this thread doesn't disappoint with the expected putting down of DxO.

I'm waiting to be dismissive of the Ken Rockwell review.  Till then I'll save up my indignance.
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neuroanatomist

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Re: DXOMark Compares the Sigma 50 f/1.4 Art to Zeiss 55 f/1.4 Otus
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2014, 09:15:51 PM »
Compared to the 50/1.2L

NameCanon 50/1.2LSigma 50/1.4A
Sharpness1421
Transmission1.4TStop1.7TStop
Distortion0.4%0.1%
Vignetting-2.4EV-1.5EV
Chr Aberration20µm6µm

Not that it will help the 50L much, but you might want to report the data for the two lenses tested on the same camera, instead of different cameras.  Either drop the Sigma to 18 P-Mpix for the 1DsIII, or raise the 50L to 16 P-Mpix for the 5DIII.  Or just leave it alone if you'd prefer to artificially bias the data in favor of the point you're making.
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dilbert

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Re: DXOMark Compares the Sigma 50 f/1.4 Art to Zeiss 55 f/1.4 Otus
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2014, 09:42:22 PM »

Not that it will help the 50L much, but you might want to report the data for the two lenses tested on the same camera, instead of different cameras.  Either drop the Sigma to 18 P-Mpix for the 1DsIII, or raise the 50L to 16 P-Mpix for the 5DIII.  Or just leave it alone if you'd prefer to artificially bias the data in favor of the point you're making.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention. Fixed

jrista

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Re: DXOMark Compares the Sigma 50 f/1.4 Art to Zeiss 55 f/1.4 Otus
« Reply #19 on: April 17, 2014, 09:45:44 PM »
Wonder if this lens will be eligible for Sigma's "mount conversion" service?

I'm surprised that so far nobody has said DxO's results are meaningless because they don't represent bokeh in their tests results anywhere! But at least the first post on this thread doesn't disappoint with the expected putting down of DxO.

When DxO get a Nikon mount copy of this lens, I think we'll see a much better representation of its capabilities. In at least one score, the "megapixel" thing, the scores are obviously limited to what Canon cameras can provide.

Compared to the 50/1.2L

NameCanon 50/1.2LSigma 50/1.4A
Sharpness1421
Transmission1.4TStop1.7TStop
Distortion0.4%0.1%
Vignetting-2.4EV-1.5EV
Chr Aberration20µm6µm

Wow, that's about as cherry picked and biased a comparison as I've ever seen. Do you even try to be objective?

Here is a more reasonable comparison:



However, this is highly skewed, because DXO uses their T-stops "measure" to determine what the "best" aperture is...and they chose f/1.2 on the 50mm as it's "best". That is about as close to the WORST aperture the 50/1.2 has...it gets far sharper and eliminates a ton of CA and vignetting when you stop down a bit. I would have chosen f/1.4 or f/1.8, both of which are definitely better than f/1.2 on the 50L, however in all their great and wonderful BIAS, DXO has conveniently not offered those as options.

When I choose f/2.8 for the Sigma, Otus, and 50L, the sharpness plots norm up quite nicely. The falloff in the corners of the 50L is due to the spherical aberration...the same spherical aberration that Canon EXPLICITLY LEFT IN BY DESIGN, for aesthetic purposes. Ironically, at f/2.8, the Sigma beats the Otus corner to corner...you can see a bit of falloff on the Otus at f/2.8 and f/4, where as the Sigma is sharp through and through:



Similarly, stop down the lenses a bit, and the vignetting issues clear right up as well. The 50L actually has better vignetting than the new Art 50 at f/2.8:



I would share the CA fields maps, however again, DXO, in all their biased wisdom, only seems to have produced CA data for the maximum aperture. CA DEFINITELY drops in the corners as you stop down, since the narrower aperture is blocking light from the periphery of the lens where the most CA occurs. As such, it is only possible to compare the wide open performance, where, once again, the 50L is at it's worst (although again, much of it's wide open performance is explicitly by design, in order to achieve a specific aesthetically pleasing result.)

neuroanatomist

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Re: DXOMark Compares the Sigma 50 f/1.4 Art to Zeiss 55 f/1.4 Otus
« Reply #20 on: April 17, 2014, 09:56:38 PM »

Not that it will help the 50L much, but you might want to report the data for the two lenses tested on the same camera, instead of different cameras.  Either drop the Sigma to 18 P-Mpix for the 1DsIII, or raise the 50L to 16 P-Mpix for the 5DIII.  Or just leave it alone if you'd prefer to artificially bias the data in favor of the point you're making.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention. Fixed

You'd think DxO could code the site so the same camera was selected by default.  But no...
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drjlo

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Re: DXOMark Compares the Sigma 50 f/1.4 Art to Zeiss 55 f/1.4 Otus
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2014, 11:02:01 PM »

However, this is highly skewed, because DXO uses their T-stops "measure" to determine what the "best" aperture is...and they chose f/1.2 on the 50mm as it's "best". That is about as close to the WORST aperture the 50/1.2 has...

Wow, I never even realized DxO did this  :o  Looks like DxO chose f/2.0 for Sigma 50 and f/1.2 for 50L as "best" for their ratings.  What the heck?

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Re: DXOMark Compares the Sigma 50 f/1.4 Art to Zeiss 55 f/1.4 Otus
« Reply #21 on: April 17, 2014, 11:02:01 PM »


chromophore

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Re: DXOMark Compares the Sigma 50 f/1.4 Art to Zeiss 55 f/1.4 Otus
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2014, 01:04:07 AM »
DxO is full of s***.  End of story.  Their summaries are nonsensical, so why should I trust their ability to accurately measure the properties of a lens?  If they're too stupid to present a proper apples-to-apples comparison and meaningful analyses, why should I believe that they can do the measurements correctly?  It is *not* a trivial thing to measure lens performance--there are numerous variables and interactions, and it requires very accurate and controlled testing conditions.

There exist plenty of other review sites that test lenses.  Why keep looking at DxO?  You might as well read science fiction.  At least sites like LensTip and The Digital Picture will show you actual images.

That said--and ignoring DxO BS completely--the Sigma looks like a great lens.  The thing I appreciate the most about it, though, is that I hope it will light a fire under Canon's lazy a**.  If they think they can continue cranking out sub-par optical designs and slap a red ring on the barrel to justify selling products at grossly inflated prices, this is a wake-up call.  What is the point of having f/1.2 if it's full of chromatic and spherical aberration, and can't focus properly?  What's the point of paying a few hundred dollars more for that red ring?  I've been a staunch defender of Canon's EF lens lineup in the past, but they've grown complacent.  Companies like Sigma are proving that it is possible to design well-corrected, fast-aperture lenses at a competitive price.  That the 50/1.4 Art is being compared to the Zeiss Otus 55/1.4 speaks volumes about where Canon's lenses SHOULD be but are NOT, considering that Canon has far more resources (read: money and expertise) to create something this good.  And that should make us Canon shooters angry, because it means that the big names (Canon and Nikon) have been holding back because they haven't had real competition in this area until relatively recently.  I encourage people to vote with their wallets.  I hope the Sigma sells like crazy.

dilbert

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Re: DXOMark Compares the Sigma 50 f/1.4 Art to Zeiss 55 f/1.4 Otus
« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2014, 01:15:35 AM »

Not that it will help the 50L much, but you might want to report the data for the two lenses tested on the same camera, instead of different cameras.  Either drop the Sigma to 18 P-Mpix for the 1DsIII, or raise the 50L to 16 P-Mpix for the 5DIII.  Or just leave it alone if you'd prefer to artificially bias the data in favor of the point you're making.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention. Fixed

You'd think DxO could code the site so the same camera was selected by default.  But no...

Their website is a PITA to navigate and however they do their indexing is a mystery ...

... it may also mean that the majority of those that use the 50/1.2L for photography do so with a 1Ds Mk III.

dilbert

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Re: DXOMark Compares the Sigma 50 f/1.4 Art to Zeiss 55 f/1.4 Otus
« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2014, 02:19:24 AM »
Wonder if this lens will be eligible for Sigma's "mount conversion" service?

I'm surprised that so far nobody has said DxO's results are meaningless because they don't represent bokeh in their tests results anywhere! But at least the first post on this thread doesn't disappoint with the expected putting down of DxO.

When DxO get a Nikon mount copy of this lens, I think we'll see a much better representation of its capabilities. In at least one score, the "megapixel" thing, the scores are obviously limited to what Canon cameras can provide.

Compared to the 50/1.2L

NameCanon 50/1.2LSigma 50/1.4A
Camera5D Mk III5D Mark III
Sharpness1821
Transmission1.4TStop1.7TStop
Distortion0.4%0.1%
Vignetting-2.4EV-1.5EV
Chr Aberration20µm6µm

Wow, that's about as cherry picked and biased a comparison as I've ever seen. Do you even try to be objective?

No honey, I don't. If I was objective then you'd have nothing to post about and then you'd get bored.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2014, 02:21:49 AM by dilbert »

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Re: DXOMark Compares the Sigma 50 f/1.4 Art to Zeiss 55 f/1.4 Otus
« Reply #26 on: April 18, 2014, 02:39:50 AM »
Wonder if this lens will be eligible for Sigma's "mount conversion" service?

I'm surprised that so far nobody has said DxO's results are meaningless because they don't represent bokeh in their tests results anywhere! But at least the first post on this thread doesn't disappoint with the expected putting down of DxO.

When DxO get a Nikon mount copy of this lens, I think we'll see a much better representation of its capabilities. In at least one score, the "megapixel" thing, the scores are obviously limited to what Canon cameras can provide.

Compared to the 50/1.2L

NameCanon 50/1.2LSigma 50/1.4A
Camera5D Mk III5D Mark III
Sharpness1821
Transmission1.4TStop1.7TStop
Distortion0.4%0.1%
Vignetting-2.4EV-1.5EV
Chr Aberration20µm6µm

Wow, that's about as cherry picked and biased a comparison as I've ever seen. Do you even try to be objective?

No honey, I don't. If I was objective then you'd have nothing to post about and then you'd get bored.

Lol. I was definitely thinking earlier, "Does this neuroanatomist guy do anything besides disparage and critique?" There's definitely a theme with him.
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Re: DXOMark Compares the Sigma 50 f/1.4 Art to Zeiss 55 f/1.4 Otus
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2014, 03:30:55 AM »

However, this is highly skewed, because DXO uses their T-stops "measure" to determine what the "best" aperture is...and they chose f/1.2 on the 50mm as it's "best". That is about as close to the WORST aperture the 50/1.2 has...

Wow, I never even realized DxO did this  :o  Looks like DxO chose f/2.0 for Sigma 50 and f/1.2 for 50L as "best" for their ratings.  What the heck?

+100, man why do they even bother?
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Re: DXOMark Compares the Sigma 50 f/1.4 Art to Zeiss 55 f/1.4 Otus
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2014, 03:30:55 AM »

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Re: DXOMark Compares the Sigma 50 f/1.4 Art to Zeiss 55 f/1.4 Otus
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2014, 04:26:19 AM »
I am really looking forward to getting my hands on this lens.

If what I have read so far, I may end up selling the Otus, because I get the same performance from a 1/4 priced lens, with AF ... That would be something  :P
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Re: DXOMark Compares the Sigma 50 f/1.4 Art to Zeiss 55 f/1.4 Otus
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2014, 02:12:04 PM »
*Sigh*

DXOs Lens test results are so useless. They rate it less than the Otus, as they should, however all of the measures they choose to exhibit would otherwise indicate that the new Sigma 50 should be the better lens. Comparatively, it has the same resolution, better transmission, less distortion, and less CA than the Otus. Only in a footnote do you actually learn why DXO rates the Otus higher: It has sharper corners.

Bleh. DXO. Bleh. It's like they just barf up test results and let the chunks & giblets remain where they plop.

I think the world would be well-served if DXO just gave up on lens tests alltogether, nuked their lens tests database, and just stuck with sensor tests. (And furthermore, I think the world would be better served if DXO did away with scalar test "scores"...just as useless as the chunks and giblets that is their lens tests.)

Probably because they also rate lenses only by their single best focal length+f-stop combination, which really makes no sense either. Especially when you consider what they mean by best f-stop and focal length, what they use to chose that MAKES ZERO SENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!! And you get utter absurdity where they end up claiming best is often wide open for many lenses even though many of those lenses peform WORST there! EVEN FAR WORSE they will end up 'evenly' comparing one lens wide open at f/1.4 and another stopped down to f/2 and another at f/2.8 and another at f/1.8 even when they are all f/1.4 lenses. WTH!?! It's beyond a joke.

I mean can you get any more misleading! Look at the rankings for sharpness in this case and they compare the sigma stopped all the way down to f/2!!! TO the Zeiss and Canon at WIDE OPEN! WTH!

Plus I don't really trust them after their old claims that the 70-200 2.8 IS II is the least sharp of all the 70-200s at 200mm f/2.8 and that the 70-300 non-L from Canon is sharper at 300mm than the L (and I think they may have even put it above the f/4 primes) oh and how they said the 16-35 f/2.8 II peaked at FF far edge sharpness at wide open I think. I think they may have redone all of their tests since then though, not sure. But the way they present the info and scores is still so absurd I haven't been bothered to even look.

Other review sites so far all show the Otus to be sharper across the entire frame at f/1.4 and some samples hint at much less PF/LoCA at f/1.4 for the Otus.

OTOH, this DOES NOT mean that their sensor ratings are junk, since they seem to be pretty solid (at least if you look at the individual plots, any overall score is always a dicey business since once person may care most about low ISO DR and another about high ISO SNR and another about fine color gradations, etc. or you may care about all of those and one number mushing it together tells you nothing).

« Last Edit: April 18, 2014, 02:18:24 PM by LetTheRightLensIn »

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Re: DXOMark Compares the Sigma 50 f/1.4 Art to Zeiss 55 f/1.4 Otus
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2014, 02:12:04 PM »