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Author Topic: Concept Cinema DSLR Official  (Read 23648 times)

dr croubie

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #30 on: November 04, 2011, 03:41:25 AM »
Looks like "Mark II" written on it to me, that was in the slides where they were talking about history, and how innovative canon was at introducing everything first and whatnot...
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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #30 on: November 04, 2011, 03:41:25 AM »

CJRodgers

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #31 on: November 04, 2011, 05:09:07 AM »
Sorry if this is a really dumb question, but will this be able to take stills aswell? I just havent seen anything about it?

dr croubie

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #32 on: November 04, 2011, 05:32:07 AM »
Sorry if this is a really dumb question, but will this be able to take stills aswell? I just havent seen anything about it?
I've used a really cheap plastic fit-in-your-hand digital HD camcorder (sharp or panasonic or sony or something), and That took stills, so i'm going to presume this one does too (the 1DX shaped one at least), or it's a very very silly idea not to.
(although, I said the same thing about the 1DX and f/8 and that turned out to be a missing feature.)
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Edwin Herdman

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #33 on: November 04, 2011, 05:44:51 AM »
Or just compare the 30-300's T-stops (which tend to be slower than rated aperture, since even clear glass blocks incoming light) to the rated aperture of a lens like the 28-300mm, and also factor in that the lens performance has to be superior in characteristics to hold up for 4K video, and also factor in pricing for other zoom lenses in this range.

It's pretty much an EFs 30-300 f/2.8-3.5. That may sound like something you'd hear from Tamron or so, but if it delivers where it counts (no distortion, no focus-shift stopping down, 11-blade circular aperture), it's probably worth the price to those who need it. Eventually I'm sure it might become the travel-lens of choice for some whackjob with too much money and a fixed luggage-limit.
Again, if you are going to claim this is f/2.8-3.5 you need to back it up because you're stating something that seems physically impossible - the lens having a smaller aperture than its T-stop rating permits.  An EF (EFs?) 30-300mm would cut some corners compared to this lens, even if it were a constant f/2.8.  No, nobody has released one, including Tamron:  I don't know of any fast-aperture lens that goes from 30-300mm (a "10x zoom") while keeping a fast aperture.  In stills photography this lens would certainly be something special - in movie production, it's "just another zoom" as far as the specs go - although apparently a very good one.

This lens will be heavy and won't fill in as a travel lens, unless manual focus is A-OK.  Could be if you were mainly shooting crowds and landscapes, as opposed to tracking movement (doesn't seem totally absurd).  I'm guessing it'll be well over six pounds - possibly significantly more.
Sorry if this is a really dumb question, but will this be able to take stills aswell? I just havent seen anything about it?
I've used a really cheap plastic fit-in-your-hand digital HD camcorder (sharp or panasonic or sony or something), and That took stills, so i'm going to presume this one does too (the 1DX shaped one at least), or it's a very very silly idea not to.
(although, I said the same thing about the 1DX and f/8 and that turned out to be a missing feature.)
The 1D X's missing physical features don't tell us anything about virtual features - the marketing of video DSLRs.  Releasing a video DSLR that doesn't take stills would be a waste of time for Canon - better to release one camera that does two things well than to release two things that do just one thing well (and if you were releasing a camera for video it would probably look more like a medium format camera with a handle and better ergonomics and hardpoints for that use).

As far as the video-only market is concerned, this newly announced camera is it (the 1D X will represent the "bargain" camera in that segment - but Canon seems clearly able to differentiate video quality of the 1D X from cheaper models because they seem to need both DIGIC V+ CPUs to process the full-frame data, so there isn't really anything artificial about this distinction).

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #34 on: November 04, 2011, 06:05:09 AM »
I'm extremely disappointed by this announcement.  These are the features many of us wanted, but they should just be part of the evolution of DSLR.  Canon is forcefully separating camps into (likely highly expensive line of equipment) which really goes directly AGAINST the reason DSLR video had such widespread success in the first place.  Pro-equipment being affordable (or at least with-in reach) in the hands of the masses was largely the point and this seems to miss that entirely.

They just fractured a business model that was working perfectly for them.  I fear they have done something quite so very stupid.  If this doesn't interfere with the natural progression DSLR video was on, then fine, no harm no foul, but only time will tell, and I've smelled this smell before.  It's a distinct smell.

I'm not at all impressed, the 5D Mark III and the 7D Mark II (and probably even the 1DX) should be/have been launched with 4k capability, as it's quite essentially useful for editing 1080p format.  It allows the editor the ability to re-crop and or pan the image and as well use digital image stabilization and then have some room around the frame to crop after stabilizing the content.  Similarly, higher than needed framerates, etc. etc., all things Canon could have been working on and figuring out for our replacement models instead of this....

The sensors on DSLR are already capable of 4k pixel wise, and so are the lenses.  Regardless, I'm going to have to simply ignore all the new products, let Hollywood blow their wad on it, I just hope it doesn't interfere with one of the main reasons I got into Canon DSLR video in the first place.  I'm not happy or excited, in fact I feel kind of used and stupid for playing along.  Time will tell, but if they don't eventually release the features we need on the budgets we have someone else will, and then where will they be?

p.s. I am not going to waste precious budget splitting my photography and film needs across multiple product lines, why do you think I got a DSLR?  Oh and, I'm already sick of the new marketing term "EOS Movie".

This has been your negatively honest announcement for the day, enjoy your breakfast.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2011, 06:12:34 AM by Jettatore »

dr croubie

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #35 on: November 04, 2011, 06:23:53 AM »
Again, if you are going to claim this is f/2.8-3.5 you need to back it up because you're stating something that seems physically impossible - the lens having a smaller aperture than its T-stop rating permits.
Is that not how T-stop ratings work, T>f? ie DXOmark gives the EF 24 f/1.4 Lii a Tstop rating of 1.6, and the 17-55 f/2.8 has a T-stop of 3.4. At T2.95-3.7, I just guessed the new lens would have f/2.8-3.5, could be a lot wider aperture.
An "ideal" lens would have T=f, impossible is T<f? Or maybe i'm backwards, it's late.
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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #36 on: November 04, 2011, 06:53:42 AM »
I'd agree with several of these posts. I'll be very interested to see price point and uptake. It would seem that Canon have missed the point slightly, in that the enthusiasm for DSLR film making is from people who value a camera that can do both, and don't have the money to split their interests across two product lines.

If this is a high end product, aimed at Hollywood, then fine. I have a feeling though, that this might be one of those Canon eccentricities that never really finds it's desired market.

As a 7D lover (yes, really) I want to go full frame, but love the multiple options presented by the camera. It remains to be seen which of the 7D2 or the 5D3 offer better content. At this rate, I can't imagine much more than extra processors and a subtle refresh, unless the 7 get's cannablised into the 5D line.

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #36 on: November 04, 2011, 06:53:42 AM »

Jettatore

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #37 on: November 04, 2011, 07:07:34 AM »
I might agree with your Canon eccentricities comment -Drama.  And can someone tell me why they have to release both a PL and an EF model at $20,000 each???  LOL, you mean to tell me the tech wizards at canon couldn't design one with a modular/swapable mount.  Pop out the EF mount and swap it for a PL mount?  Really not inspiring confidence here guys...

dr croubie

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #38 on: November 04, 2011, 07:23:38 AM »
I might agree with your Canon eccentricities comment -Drama.  And can someone tell me why they have to release both a PL and an EF model at $20,000 each???  LOL, you mean to tell me the tech wizards at canon couldn't design one with a modular/swapable mount.  Pop out the EF mount and swap it for a PL mount?  Really not inspiring confidence here guys...

Or not even that, EF mount is 44mm, PL mount is 52mm. I can go to ebay right now and get a $10 adapter to mount a PL lens on my 7D. Anyone who buys the PL-mount C300 is locking themselves out of the EF-mount for not much benefit, but anyone who buys the EF-mount can use EF *and* PL (and not to mention, nikon, Olympus OM, pentax, M42, all Medium Format) lenses.
The only reason I can see for releasing a PL-mount C300 is to keep all the hollywood types (who don't understand much about mounts except for "i must have PL mount") happy.
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Jettatore

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #39 on: November 04, 2011, 07:31:00 AM »
Yeah, good point.

ferdi

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #40 on: November 04, 2011, 07:45:17 AM »
I'm extremely disappointed by this announcement.
I'm not. New mainly-for-still camera models are likely to inherit some useful features like a built-in ND filter, 3 second pre-record cache and hot-pluggable CF cards.

I'm not at all impressed, the 5D Mark III and the 7D Mark II (and probably even the 1DX) should be/have been launched with << insert feature wish list here >>
Yes, and all that for max 2500 dollars right?

why do you think I got a DSLR?
Why don't you tell us? If you wanted 4k/120fps, you shouldn't have bought a 7D or 5DII.
Quote from Larry Thorpe:
"The 5D Mark II is a hybrid - it is first and foremost a DSLR, and then we added video capability at minimal cost initially with people like Associated Press and Reuters in mind."

I can go to ebay right now and get a $10 adapter to mount a PL lens on my 7D.
Do you have infinity focus with it? How about focus confirmation and correct aperture reporting?
For now their is no price difference between EF and PL mount so why even bother?
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CJRodgers

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #41 on: November 04, 2011, 07:46:54 AM »
Yeah i thought it would take stills, im just wondering if theyre concentrating so much on video for this, how many features would be missing for stills. Or will it be an incredible hybrid.

dr croubie

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #42 on: November 04, 2011, 07:53:08 AM »
Do you have infinity focus with it? How about focus confirmation and correct aperture reporting?
For now their is no price difference between EF and PL mount so why even bother?

Infinity focus yes, focus confirmation via a chip if you really want. (but seeing as this new C300 won't have dslr-type AF that doesn't matter)
Do PL-mounts have aperture reporting through electronic contacts either?

Why bother, is that directed to the PL- or EF-mount?
If i'm a filmmaker, I can take a C300 with EF mount out into the middle of Africa with an EF 1200 f/5.6 L IS and get some really good film from safe distances, or I can stick on the fisheye, or the 50 f/1.0, or 70 other lenses, *and* I can mount my expensive PL-mount lenses on the same camera.

If I buy the C300 PL-mount I can mount PL-lenses only.
Which is the better deal?
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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #42 on: November 04, 2011, 07:53:08 AM »

wockawocka

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #43 on: November 04, 2011, 08:03:35 AM »
But will it blend?
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Jettatore

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #44 on: November 04, 2011, 08:05:58 AM »
We will see what Generation 2 and Generation 3 of DSLR video bring Ferdi.  I do understand the other side of the argument, but, lenses aside, we have better digital sensors in our cell phones than the first few generations of fairly expensive digital cameras could offer, that's just the nature of technology.

The price point of these offerings, put this head to head with the likes of Sony RED cams and other high end video equipment.  That's the kind of stuff most studios rent in the first place and at least this helps merge compatibility with the stuff the likes of us can afford to own full time.

Price alone really dictates that I have nothing to do with this stuff, and realistically I don't want it.  What I am concerned about is, will they "leave out features" on purpose only to make their high end offerings seem more reasonable?  Perhaps not, and if they do, it will leave an opening for Panasonic and others.

I mean, we do have a bunch of stuff stifling tech now a days, you gotta at least give me that.  How about, "can't have more than 15 minutes of video (or whatever it was) because there's a UK tax if we do that" kind of BS.  But the biggest things stifling technology, is that we are mostly just consumers of it, and behind the hoods, other than general concepts of what is going on, we are basically the modern day equivalent of illiterates. 

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #44 on: November 04, 2011, 08:05:58 AM »