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Author Topic: Concept Cinema DSLR Official  (Read 23586 times)

mkln

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2011, 10:08:44 PM »
$6800 for every single one of the primes?
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?

and I thought I could consider them for still photography use.
haha.

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2011, 10:08:44 PM »

Zuuyi

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2011, 10:33:45 PM »
So the Scarlet X comes out Nov 17 - PL Mount & Dec 1 - EF Mount.  S35 Sensor. 4k Video 24/25fps 2k video 50/60fps 1k video 120fps.  And $14,000 for a full kit. $9750 for just the body.  So within hours the C300 has become overpriced old technology.

They knew this would happen but I guess they forgot James Jannard was that crazy.  I will buy a Scarlet if he throws in his 1200mm/5.6L.

Edit: 12fps Stills also.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 11:04:10 PM by Zuuyi »

Policar

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2011, 11:05:23 PM »
Is this the exact same design, form-wise, as the 1DX?  If so, it's probably almost the same camera but with upgraded firmware and a considerably higher price...  APS-H is also an annoying crop factor for video.  Super35 is much closer to APS-C and there are fast wide zooms for crop bodies.

I want the APS-C cinema camera!

To those fawning after the Red...sure, it looks nice, but the poor color rendering, impossible proprietary workflow, and constantly-in-need-of-updates software make the camera a nightmare, imo, to use.  Canon's footage has nicer skin tones than I've ever seen out of a Red.  There's a reason so much tv is shot with the Alexa, rather than the red, and why dSLRs are used on ads--1080p with nice and standardized colors out of camera is much better for post.  Red is cool, but what you get in terms of extra tech you pay for in having to figure out how to use it efficiently.  Canon's cine camera does seem overpriced for what you get, though--in that no man's land the AF100 and F3 already inhabit except even more expensive...

adamfilip

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2011, 11:15:01 PM »
I wonder how much this new camera will eat into the profits of the 20,000 rig. We probably won't see it till around the same July time frame as the C primes.

Considering the zooms are $47k each.. im not sure it matters

Zuuyi

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2011, 11:16:41 PM »
I'm not touching a Red camera. But it's just really sad that you can get a Red camera with possibly better specs for 6k less; and still use EF lenses.

It will also be available before the Canon;  so Canon needs to hurry up and release the C DSLR and take back some of the buzz.

I'm getting a 5d2 (once the 5d3 comes) or a 7d2 when it comes out.  So this is just something for me to look at while I'm waiting.

theuserjohnny

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2011, 11:25:04 PM »
"(...) new-concept EOS-series digital single-lens reflex (SLR) camera". It means for me, that it's not going to be 5mdk3. The are to split still and video. 5dmk3 in terms of still will probably be focused on still photography (36MP and so on) with limited video capabilities. New C line (and new FF video camera, yet under development) will be focused on video, with limited photography capabilities.

As far as this forum was for assumptions and rumors, I could speculate, that the EOS hierarchy could look like this in the future

STILL photography line
5d3 - middle market, 1d(whatever new, not mentioned yet) - top model for studio
7d2 - middle market, 1dx - top model for sports, nature
the rest

VIDEO Line
C300 - high end (as far)
EOS "C" FF (under development) - middle market
EOS "C" super 35 (not mentioned) - low market

Pretty much agree with this. This new line of video DSLRs just means the 5D and 7D will go back to being stills camera (with the current limited video features) and this new line will have the video features that 5D/7D shooters have been looking for (but with limited stills features or if anything all the still features).

The only downfall is that I think this will range in the low 5k-7k. I would be very surprised if its in the 2k-3k.

dilbert

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2011, 11:41:36 PM »
$6800 for every single one of the primes?
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?

and I thought I could consider them for still photography use.
haha.

Pay close attention to all of the distance markers around the focus adjustment.

That's a big part of what you're paying for.

I'm also willing to bet that other properties, such as distortion, are rather different with these lenses.

Note that none of them are quoted in "F" stop - they're all "T" stop lenses.

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2011, 11:41:36 PM »

dr croubie

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2011, 11:49:16 PM »
To be honest, i'd never even heard of RED before i started to read these and other forums a while back, i'm a photographer not a cinematographer.

But I am, however, an Electronic Engineer. And i've seen it time and again, in competitors as well as my own products, when the salesmen push the dates forward to get a product out earlier, (despite our protests that it's not ready), that in the end a half-finished product comes out and does the brand name more harm than good (and especially made more work for me as the service engineer at my last job).

Without knowing anything about RED or their products or how they operate, I'm envisaging an unfortunate parallel. After canon announced the Nov3 date, then RED announced their Nov3 date for a few hours later. Then on Nov3, canon announced January next year, now Red announce December or whatever.
I do hope for their sake that they're not rushing out a not-quite-complete product just to one-up on canon's timings...
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RichST

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2011, 12:00:49 AM »
They said "approximately" so that could mean it's the 1DX sensor (18MP).

Exactly what I was thinking, the 1DX can get to 14fps in full-frame mode so a 4K "crop mode" should be able to make it to 24fps. Saves them from having to design two new sensors

Meh

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2011, 12:01:49 AM »
At only 8.3MP for the FF sensor, if they've used all of their most recent tech with this sensor, then it should have very good DR.

Why do you think this concept DSLR video camera has an 8.3MP FF sensor.  The 8.3MP is the resolution of the Super35 size sensor in the C 300.

The layout of the sensor is 1920x1080x4 (RGBG)

Not quite.  The red and blue pixels are 1920x1080.  The green pixels are 1920x2160.   But ok, you could look at like 1920x1080x4.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2011, 12:03:40 AM by Meh »

Axilrod

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2011, 12:12:40 AM »
I think the prototype DSLR will be more of a competitor with the Scarlett, depending on what it costs, but I'm guessing it will be substantially less and Canon is going to go for moving alot of volume.
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Masterwana

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2011, 02:32:43 AM »
You told us a time ago, that there is a possible split of the 5D MKIII, one for photo and one for films.
So i think this would be the "5D" for the moviemakers.

Edwin Herdman

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2011, 02:38:17 AM »
Pay close attention to all of the distance markers around the focus adjustment.
Or just compare the 30-300's T-stops (which tend to be slower than rated aperture, since even clear glass blocks incoming light) to the rated aperture of a lens like the 28-300mm, and also factor in that the lens performance has to be superior in characteristics to hold up for 4K video, and also factor in pricing for other zoom lenses in this range.

It was silly of me yesterday to mention use of these lenses for stills photography, because these will certainly be unwieldy enough that they will be very hard to use for that purpose.  That alone (before considering the price) is enough to sink the proposition of using them for a stills camera, and you can't add autofocus as a selling point, either.

It's hard not to be impressed by the specifications of the prime lenses and want to use them as manual focus lenses.  11-bladed aperture, and fast apertures!  Looks lovely...I'd better start saving up.

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2011, 02:38:17 AM »

dr croubie

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2011, 03:23:45 AM »
Or just compare the 30-300's T-stops (which tend to be slower than rated aperture, since even clear glass blocks incoming light) to the rated aperture of a lens like the 28-300mm, and also factor in that the lens performance has to be superior in characteristics to hold up for 4K video, and also factor in pricing for other zoom lenses in this range.

It's pretty much an EFs 30-300 f/2.8-3.5. That may sound like something you'd hear from Tamron or so, but if it delivers where it counts (no distortion, no focus-shift stopping down, 11-blade circular aperture), it's probably worth the price to those who need it. Eventually I'm sure it might become the travel-lens of choice for some whackjob with too much money and a fixed luggage-limit.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2011, 03:39:55 AM by dr croubie »
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bobek

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2011, 03:31:51 AM »
BTW if you check the liveblogpost on Engadged:

http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/03/the-canon-hollywood-event-liveblog/

you will see this shot of slide, which has been presented to the audience:

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2011/11/201111036053.jpg

that looks very much as 5D3 to me.

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2011, 03:31:51 AM »