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Author Topic: Concept Cinema DSLR Official  (Read 34606 times)

Edwin Herdman

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #60 on: November 04, 2011, 04:55:04 PM »
So I read!

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #60 on: November 04, 2011, 04:55:04 PM »

Fandongo

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #61 on: November 04, 2011, 05:55:11 PM »
But will it blend?

LoL, i would pay to see that.
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Axilrod

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #62 on: November 04, 2011, 06:39:43 PM »
I'm extremely disappointed by this announcement.  These are the features many of us wanted, but they should just be part of the evolution of DSLR.  Canon is forcefully separating camps into (likely highly expensive line of equipment) which really goes directly AGAINST the reason DSLR video had such widespread success in the first place.  Pro-equipment being affordable (or at least with-in reach) in the hands of the masses was largely the point and this seems to miss that entirely.

They just fractured a business model that was working perfectly for them.  I fear they have done something quite so very stupid.  If this doesn't interfere with the natural progression DSLR video was on, then fine, no harm no foul, but only time will tell, and I've smelled this smell before.  It's a distinct smell.

I'm not at all impressed, the 5D Mark III and the 7D Mark II (and probably even the 1DX) should be/have been launched with 4k capability, as it's quite essentially useful for editing 1080p format.  It allows the editor the ability to re-crop and or pan the image and as well use digital image stabilization and then have some room around the frame to crop after stabilizing the content.  Similarly, higher than needed framerates, etc. etc., all things Canon could have been working on and figuring out for our replacement models instead of this....

The sensors on DSLR are already capable of 4k pixel wise, and so are the lenses.  Regardless, I'm going to have to simply ignore all the new products, let Hollywood blow their wad on it, I just hope it doesn't interfere with one of the main reasons I got into Canon DSLR video in the first place.  I'm not happy or excited, in fact I feel kind of used and stupid for playing along.  Time will tell, but if they don't eventually release the features we need on the budgets we have someone else will, and then where will they be?

p.s. I am not going to waste precious budget splitting my photography and film needs across multiple product lines, why do you think I got a DSLR?  Oh and, I'm already sick of the new marketing term "EOS Movie".

This has been your negatively honest announcement for the day, enjoy your breakfast.

You think it's a bad announcement because they didn't announce what you wanted.  They had to start somewhere with their EOS Cinema line, and debuting a camera good enough for Hollywood to use was a good way to establish themselves as major players in the industry.  This is a totally different division of Canon, they had to bring something big out.

We all know they're working on a 4K DSLR, just have some patience and it will come.  Your film-making capabilities are not any less today than they were a week ago.  You can still make something great with a 5D/7D, our time will come soon enough.
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rocketdesigner

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #63 on: November 04, 2011, 07:42:37 PM »
Axilrod well said.

+1

sandro

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #64 on: November 04, 2011, 10:12:41 PM »
The only thing we should worry about is the natural market consequence, that they're gonna cripple features to make you buy dedicated video camera or in this case high end "cinema" DSLR = expensive!.
Like Sony did, they released the amazing f3/fs100 with amazing real 1080p clean video with outstanding low light capabilities BUT with high end average video resolution (still full of moiré) on the new DSRLs which to me are not worth the upgrade (video-wise).

BTW I really doubt they're ever gonna give 4k as a basic res to a 7d too, just forget it  :-\
I just can't wait to find out my future with Canon :D

coltsfreak18

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #65 on: November 04, 2011, 10:59:15 PM »
I forget where, but I did read somewhere, that the new lenses (for sure the primes, but I'm not so sure about the zooms) have 12 rounded aperture blades.  The 50 f/1.2 has 8; thus, this is a different lens design.  It may have the same glass, but it will definitely have smoother bokeh.

Edwin Herdman

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #66 on: November 04, 2011, 11:06:05 PM »
It's on the homepage:
Quote
Each lens is equipped with a newly designed 11-blade aperture diaphragm for soft, attractive blur characteristics, making them ideally suited for cinematographic applications.
You can read the entire press release at the CR homepage, or at Canon's website.

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #66 on: November 04, 2011, 11:06:05 PM »

bobtur

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #67 on: November 04, 2011, 11:40:50 PM »
The camera looks great, however the MPEG II recording codec is still 8-bit which isn't a professional bit rate. It leaves you without any latitude to color correct, a big problem for Canon 5D Mark II users. The good news is that there's an HD-SDI output which will allow you to use a third party 10 or 12-bit recorder.

About the hype that this is a Red Epic or Arri Alexa killer, it isn't. I own the Alexa-Plus and Arriraw, or it's 12-bit 4:4:4 capability, coupled with the camera's 14 stops of latitude ends that argument. The 300 competes more with Red's Scarlet, however at twice the price it may, or may not.

I would love to have the 300 as a second unit camera so I could use my EF lenses, including the 14mm 2.8, 20-35mm, 14mm TS, 85mm 1.2, 135mm 2.0, 400mm 2.8.

Too bad they make you choose between EF and PL mount models because I'd like to be able to use my Master Primes, too.

DarkKnightNine

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #68 on: November 05, 2011, 02:29:03 AM »
When will it sink into Canon's head that the only thing Red Digital Cinema has over them is uncompressed RAW motion capture? Why does Canon keep announcing camera after camera with some idiotic file compression scheme? Now they're thinking Motion JPEG. How about just RAW data over an HD-SDI or Thunderbolt connection?
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DarkKnightNine

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #69 on: November 05, 2011, 03:04:11 AM »
So the Scarlet X comes out Nov 17 - PL Mount & Dec 1 - EF Mount.  S35 Sensor. 4k Video 24/25fps 2k video 50/60fps 1k video 120fps.  And $14,000 for a full kit. $9750 for just the body.  So within hours the C300 has become overpriced old technology.

They knew this would happen but I guess they forgot James Jannard was that crazy.  I will buy a Scarlet if he throws in his 1200mm/5.6L.

Edit: 12fps Stills also.


If Canon added RAW video capture to a 1D Mark IV, you'd have your Scarlet X right now. The newly revised Scarlet X is nothing more than an APS-H sized sensor. Red no longer impresses me at all. They're just about marketing hype. The only thing Red does better than Canon is they have the good sense to realize not to use highly compressed codecs that negate the point of shooting with large sensors in the first place. If Canon ever figures that out, they will blow Red out of the water.
Canon 1DX, Canon 5D Mark III, EF 85mm F1.2L II USM, EF 100mm F2.8L IS USM Macro, EF 16-35mm F2.8L II USM, EF 24-70mm F2.8L II USM, EF 70-200mm F2.8L IS II USM, 600EX-RT Speedlites, Profoto Studio Strobes, and a whole lot of boat load of light modifiers.

DarkKnightNine

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #70 on: November 05, 2011, 03:25:33 AM »
I'm extremely disappointed by this announcement.  These are the features many of us wanted, but they should just be part of the evolution of DSLR.  Canon is forcefully separating camps into (likely highly expensive line of equipment) which really goes directly AGAINST the reason DSLR video had such widespread success in the first place.  Pro-equipment being affordable (or at least with-in reach) in the hands of the masses was largely the point and this seems to miss that entirely.

They just fractured a business model that was working perfectly for them.  I fear they have done something quite so very stupid.  If this doesn't interfere with the natural progression DSLR video was on, then fine, no harm no foul, but only time will tell, and I've smelled this smell before.  It's a distinct smell.

I'm not at all impressed, the 5D Mark III and the 7D Mark II (and probably even the 1DX) should be/have been launched with 4k capability, as it's quite essentially useful for editing 1080p format.  It allows the editor the ability to re-crop and or pan the image and as well use digital image stabilization and then have some room around the frame to crop after stabilizing the content.  Similarly, higher than needed framerates, etc. etc., all things Canon could have been working on and figuring out for our replacement models instead of this....

The sensors on DSLR are already capable of 4k pixel wise, and so are the lenses.  Regardless, I'm going to have to simply ignore all the new products, let Hollywood blow their wad on it, I just hope it doesn't interfere with one of the main reasons I got into Canon DSLR video in the first place.  I'm not happy or excited, in fact I feel kind of used and stupid for playing along.  Time will tell, but if they don't eventually release the features we need on the budgets we have someone else will, and then where will they be?

p.s. I am not going to waste precious budget splitting my photography and film needs across multiple product lines, why do you think I got a DSLR?  Oh and, I'm already sick of the new marketing term "EOS Movie".

This has been your negatively honest announcement for the day, enjoy your breakfast.


Interesting thoughts and I would have to say I agree with you. Greed seems to be the motivation here rather than trying to give creative professionals what they want or need.
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Manuel

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #71 on: November 05, 2011, 09:56:22 AM »
I'm very disappointed about the non-releasing of a 5D mark III. Frustrated by the 8bit C300. Disgusted by the washed out, poorly white balanced and noisy image quality of the last Laforet's video compared to Nocturne and Reverie. And very, very, very Sorry for Scorsese. Ah, last but not least, the surreal price range. If only Canon had really listened properly...What's your take CR? Hope the Canon people are listening because they just released an object to rent not to own: the 5D mark II IQ still beats hands down any competitor.

DarkKnightNine

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #72 on: November 05, 2011, 03:42:01 PM »
I'm very disappointed about the non-releasing of a 5D mark III. Frustrated by the 8bit C300. Disgusted by the washed out, poorly white balanced and noisy image quality of the last Laforet's video compared to Nocturne and Reverie. And very, very, very Sorry for Scorsese. Ah, last but not least, the surreal price range. If only Canon had really listened properly...What's your take CR? Hope the Canon people are listening because they just released an object to rent not to own: the 5D mark II IQ still beats hands down any competitor.


You mean any competitor within the 5D Mark II's price range right? Watch Zacuto's latest video shoot of large sensor cameras and I think you'll agree the Alexa's IQ is better but at a huge cost difference over the 5D Mark II. Link here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIiWStv2ANk
Canon 1DX, Canon 5D Mark III, EF 85mm F1.2L II USM, EF 100mm F2.8L IS USM Macro, EF 16-35mm F2.8L II USM, EF 24-70mm F2.8L II USM, EF 70-200mm F2.8L IS II USM, 600EX-RT Speedlites, Profoto Studio Strobes, and a whole lot of boat load of light modifiers.

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #72 on: November 05, 2011, 03:42:01 PM »

Edwin Herdman

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #73 on: November 05, 2011, 04:15:13 PM »
When will it sink into Canon's head that the only thing Red Digital Cinema has over them is uncompressed RAW motion capture? Why does Canon keep announcing camera after camera with some idiotic file compression scheme? Now they're thinking Motion JPEG. How about just RAW data over an HD-SDI or Thunderbolt connection?
To me, the most apparent difference between these Canon cameras and the RED cameras is in the ergonomics - and size.  To go with uncompressed RAW video they'd probably have to go to hard drives, too.  The RED cameras look much bigger and clumsier to work with but they can't simply record to a couple CF cards.  Keeping that much data moving through the system seems like it would be the cause of much greater battery use and data throughput requirements, as well, because the Canon camera is ditching a fair amount of data with the 4:2:2 chroma compression scheme.

I think your main point stands, but it seems to me that there is a clear tradeoff here between data and mobility (as a result of the extra requirements to do uncompressed capture).

However, Canon is using the DIGIC DV III in the C300, not the newer DIGIC V (or V+).  This may simply be the result of the DIGIC V series not being optimal for video - hard to say as of yet.  I think the next round should be better for Canon, though.
Disgusted by the washed out, poorly white balanced and noisy image quality of the last Laforet's video compared to Nocturne and Reverie.
I didn't see it.  In any case, the short was shot using natural lighting and at ISOs up to 16,000 (or so) - how is that bad performance?  If you can use artificial lights that goes away.  I don't understand the white balance critique at all - there definitely was some color grading but it didn't seem terribly inconsistent (in a jarring way, at least).
« Last Edit: November 05, 2011, 04:22:43 PM by Edwin Herdman »

MartinvH

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #74 on: November 06, 2011, 03:57:38 AM »
I'm very disappointed about the non-releasing of a 5D mark III. Frustrated by the 8bit C300. Disgusted by the washed out, poorly white balanced and noisy image quality of the last Laforet's video compared to Nocturne and Reverie. And very, very, very Sorry for Scorsese. Ah, last but not least, the surreal price range. If only Canon had really listened properly...What's your take CR? Hope the Canon people are listening because they just released an object to rent not to own: the 5D mark II IQ still beats hands down any competitor.


You mean any competitor within the 5D Mark II's price range right? Watch Zacuto's latest video shoot of large sensor cameras and I think you'll agree the Alexa's IQ is better but at a huge cost difference over the 5D Mark II. Link here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIiWStv2ANk

That link to Youtube is great ,thanks for that.
Everybody can learn something from that video no matter if you are a pro or just an amateur.
My conclusion is :In the end its all about the cameraman's capabilities to adapt to  each camera's strongest and weaker points and adapt your shooting because all camera's in this test are good.

Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcDYdaZs6Kc&feature=related
Part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2FAAuRr0hg&feature=related


« Last Edit: November 06, 2011, 05:42:09 AM by MartinvH »

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Re: Concept Cinema DSLR Official
« Reply #74 on: November 06, 2011, 03:57:38 AM »