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Author Topic: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October  (Read 42065 times)

jdramirez

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Re: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October
« Reply #90 on: April 23, 2014, 09:40:22 PM »
SoI was afma'ing my 85 f1.8 and I noticed that the plane of focus didn't go in the direction I thought it would... but that wasn't all over the place like this suggests. 

All things considered, I do want consistency in my auto focus... I don't want to treat it like it is a manual focus lens, and I hope the test is flawed.

Simply not using a wired shutter release might make a difference... though that is grasping at straws.
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100L-> 85mm f/1.8 USM-> 8mm -> 85mm f/1.2L mkii

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Re: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October
« Reply #90 on: April 23, 2014, 09:40:22 PM »

BLFPhoto

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Re: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October
« Reply #91 on: April 23, 2014, 10:37:57 PM »
The best we lay testers can do is automated testing using products like FoCal.  The tool allows you to not only perform repeatable cycles of testing, but allows you to specify variables such as how the lens is de focused between shots.  Multiple test runs, altering the variables can help pinpoint possible performance limitations or at least give you further insight into the character of your copy of a particular lens.  Over time you can also compare results to note changes or anomalies in the performance that may indicate a need to travel back to the manufacturer for service.  One of the key parameter settings for Focal is for mirror lock up, probably alleviating your need for a wired release to control vibrations. 

I have no experience yet with the LensCal product.  Maybe someone has a comparison. 
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BLFPhoto

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Re: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October
« Reply #92 on: April 23, 2014, 10:57:44 PM »

Regardless, the real issue is this is n=1 lens.

On this we are in 100% agreement.

Let me also be very clear that I'm not questioning his honesty or integrity.  Rather, in my line of work, I don't accept anyone's work without seeing the data to back up the conclusions.  Otherwise people get dead.  Now we're not risking bodily injury here, even though these new 50s aren't our dad's old compact, lightweight primes.   But we are talking about a serious knock on a new product that seems somewhat out of character with the current paradigm.  If I were Sigma,  and I was looking to build on my newly improving reputation, I would not let a lens anywhere near the street that was such a laggard in focus precision, especially on current flagship cameras of the big OEM players.  Certainly I would not release it with the fanfare this lens is getting.  I'd slap a Quantaray silkscreen on that puppy and let it die a death in kit lens hell. 

Me?  I'm just thinking I'd love to dig in on the at sample shoot and do some root cause analysis.  I guess that's the engineer and test geek in me, though. 
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jcleare

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Re: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October
« Reply #93 on: April 23, 2014, 11:49:39 PM »
Can't wait for a 24-70 2.8 art !

sanj

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Re: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October
« Reply #94 on: April 24, 2014, 12:07:40 AM »
I think you guys are missing the big "A" on the side of these lenses... for ART! Perhaps the focus issues are for artistic effect!

Brilliant! Many believe that some Canon lenses are soft for artistic effect. I am so confused these days that I am adding Coke to my scotch. Milk into green tea.

epsiloneri

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Re: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October
« Reply #95 on: April 24, 2014, 01:04:32 AM »
Me?  I'm just thinking I'd love to dig in on the at sample shoot and do some root cause analysis.  I guess that's the engineer and test geek in me, though.
Sounds like you'd do a good job testing the AF thoroughly if you got the chance. Please share your findings if you do.



epsiloneri

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Re: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October
« Reply #96 on: April 24, 2014, 01:21:17 AM »
Now, for this lens o be useful even without being AF perfect it will have to be a superset of Samyang 24 1.4

1. NO Coma
2. No decentering issues.
3. Very good center wide open with good  corners.
Judging from the image quality tool at TDP, the Samyang 35/1.4 seems optically quite the match to the Sigma 35/1.4A, with both better than the EF 35/1.4L. The Samyang 24/1.4 though looks quite a bit worse than the EF 24/1.4L II wide open (though COMA is hard to infer since not explicitly tested). This hopefully means that there is room for improvement for a future Sigma 24/1.4A over the corresponding Samyang. (and yes, the EF 24/1.4L II unfortunately has terrible coma as I know from first-hand experience)

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Re: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October
« Reply #96 on: April 24, 2014, 01:21:17 AM »

jdramirez

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Re: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October
« Reply #97 on: April 24, 2014, 02:15:09 AM »
Can't wait for a 24-70 2.8 art !
Nope... but the rumored Sigma 24-70 f/2 is very intriguing. 
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100L-> 85mm f/1.8 USM-> 8mm -> 85mm f/1.2L mkii

Viggo

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Re: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October
« Reply #98 on: April 24, 2014, 02:16:43 AM »
I'll just wait until my copy arrives, and test myself. But I'll try it in store and if my results matches those Bryan had, I'm not buying it... Plain and simple. There are endless discussions over the Sigma AF, and when people refuses to realize there is an issue it's no point. If there are great or horrible results, I'll be sure to post my findings and dilbert won't believe them.
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jdramirez

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Re: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October
« Reply #99 on: April 24, 2014, 02:22:03 AM »
I'll just wait until my copy arrives, and test myself. But I'll try it in store and if my results matches those Bryan had, I'm not buying it... Plain and simple. There are endless discussions over the Sigma AF, and when people refuses to realize there is an issue it's no point. If there are great or horrible results, I'll be sure to post my findings and dilbert won't believe them.

I forget where I heard it (other than everywhere)... but once is an accident, twice is a coincidence, and three times is a trend.  It all boils down to sample size.  Maybe Bryan did everything perfectly a just got a bad copy.  Maybe the UPS guy played soccer with the box before it got to his front door.  But if you and 14 others come to the same conclusion... then what we have here is a cheaper otus with AF usable only at f/4 or f/5.6... which REALLY makes the lens less desirable. 

And there is nothing wrong with questioning scientific fact (which this test would not be considered). 
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100L-> 85mm f/1.8 USM-> 8mm -> 85mm f/1.2L mkii

Viggo

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Re: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October
« Reply #100 on: April 24, 2014, 02:43:30 AM »
I'll just wait until my copy arrives, and test myself. But I'll try it in store and if my results matches those Bryan had, I'm not buying it... Plain and simple. There are endless discussions over the Sigma AF, and when people refuses to realize there is an issue it's no point. If there are great or horrible results, I'll be sure to post my findings and dilbert won't believe them.

I forget where I heard it (other than everywhere)... but once is an accident, twice is a coincidence, and three times is a trend.  It all boils down to sample size.  Maybe Bryan did everything perfectly a just got a bad copy.  Maybe the UPS guy played soccer with the box before it got to his front door.  But if you and 14 others come to the same conclusion... then what we have here is a cheaper otus with AF usable only at f/4 or f/5.6... which REALLY makes the lens less desirable. 

And there is nothing wrong with questioning scientific fact (which this test would not be considered).

Just to make it clear, I don't just guess on this, I simply added Bryan's test as a highly regarded datapoint in the long curve that is others experience with the 35 Art, including mine, and now the tests and reviews and previews I've seen regarding the 50 art, and it shows the same thing. Then there's the theory behind with Canon clearly not sharing anything with Sigma and it seems like it's not possible to make it work in the same way Canon lenses works with AF.  That's the point.

I want Sigma to have a winner here, and I wanted to own the 35 art and have the cheaper lens with better IQ, in the same way I think with the 50 art now. But the 35 I had followed every prediction that it couldn't work. And I suspect the same for the 50, but given how much I want a great 50 with AF , I'm giving the new one a chance.

If the deal seems to good to be true, it probably is...
1dx, Zeiss 21 f2.8, 35 L II, 200 f2.0 L, Profoto B1.

Viggo

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Re: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October
« Reply #101 on: April 24, 2014, 03:53:29 AM »
I'll just wait until my copy arrives, and test myself. But I'll try it in store and if my results matches those Bryan had, I'm not buying it... Plain and simple. There are endless discussions over the Sigma AF, and when people refuses to realize there is an issue it's no point. If there are great or horrible results, I'll be sure to post my findings and dilbert won't believe them.

Just tell me in advance, how do you propose to do determine the correct AFMA setting for the lens whilst you're in the store?
Want me to write you a tutorial?

It's not very hard, I have the Spyder lens cal and a tripod, but I don't need the perfect value to determine if the lens gives me the same result for every shot, didn't you read Neuro's word in the same exact issue?

I used to work for the same shop I'm buying it in also, so I'm sure they have no problem with me taking it home and run through FoCal and test for a day. The 35 art showed it's flaws from the start, so I don't need a high end lab to see If it works.
1dx, Zeiss 21 f2.8, 35 L II, 200 f2.0 L, Profoto B1.

Valvebounce

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Re: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October
« Reply #102 on: April 24, 2014, 04:14:49 AM »
Hi JD.
I bet that's it, some fool in dispatch put a FRAGILE label on the box, couriers seem to put all the fragile items in a special location just handy for the office vs drivers kick about!  :o  ::)

All this about AFMA, this is a global adjustment for the lens, so if you move the AFMA point 2 units to the front, you move ALL the future focus hits 2 points to the front, not just the misses. I guess it is possible that AFMA could improve the ability of the camera to resolve the focus points and reduce the miss rate, but it is most unlikely.
The most important thing here is the lens sample pool of 1, impossible to have a representative test on 1 item, hand picked or otherwise.
With respect to the idea of a hand picked lens, from reading Roger Cicala's blog at Lens Rentals I doubt most lens manufacturers could pick a best of the best given that they can't fix the lenses he sends back as poor quality!

Cheers Graham.

Maybe the UPS guy played soccer with the box before it got to his front door.
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Re: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October
« Reply #102 on: April 24, 2014, 04:14:49 AM »

eml58

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Re: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October
« Reply #103 on: April 24, 2014, 04:36:53 AM »
I think you guys are missing the big "A" on the side of these lenses... for ART! Perhaps the focus issues are for artistic effect!

Brilliant! Many believe that some Canon lenses are soft for artistic effect. I am so confused these days that I am adding Coke to my scotch. Milk into green tea.

Yes, well, your right, that's a situation that requires some redress, the Coke in the scotch I have no idea on, but I imagine it's similar to adding water to an excellent Red Wine, basically you need retraining, and lots of it would be my recommendation.

But the Milk in the Green Tea ?? Perhaps your too far gone Sanj, you may as well wallow happily in your confusion, especially when it comes to making sense out of some of these Posts, including I might add, this one.
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tron

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Re: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October
« Reply #104 on: April 24, 2014, 04:43:44 AM »
Now, for this lens o be useful even without being AF perfect it will have to be a superset of Samyang 24 1.4

1. NO Coma
2. No decentering issues.
3. Very good center wide open with good  corners.
Judging from the image quality tool at TDP, the Samyang 35/1.4 seems optically quite the match to the Sigma 35/1.4A, with both better than the EF 35/1.4L. The Samyang 24/1.4 though looks quite a bit worse than the EF 24/1.4L II wide open (though COMA is hard to infer since not explicitly tested). This hopefully means that there is room for improvement for a future Sigma 24/1.4A over the corresponding Samyang. (and yes, the EF 24/1.4L II unfortunately has terrible coma as I know from first-hand experience)
Coma is tested for the mentioned 24mm lenses. Some useful links:

http://www.extremeinstability.com/lens24mm.html

http://www.lenstip.com/245.7-Lens_review-Canon_EF_24_mm_f_1.4L_II_USM_Coma_and_astigmatism.html

http://www.lenstip.com/330.7-Lens_review-Samyang_24_mm_f_1.4_ED_AS_UMC_Coma__astigmatism_and_bokeh.html
« Last Edit: April 24, 2014, 04:46:37 AM by tron »

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Re: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October
« Reply #104 on: April 24, 2014, 04:43:44 AM »