December 18, 2014, 05:46:36 PM

Author Topic: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October  (Read 17038 times)

brad-man

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Re: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October
« Reply #150 on: April 25, 2014, 05:24:56 PM »
Well, the days of Canon/Nikon taking their own sweet time to update lenses is likely drawing to a close. They could get away with that before, since there was no real competition. Sigma and Tamron have not been taken too seriously by most enthusiasts/professionals for their inconsistencies in build quality, autofocus or whatever. This information would filter down to the average consumer, causing them to stick with OEM products unless budget restraints were critical. If this current rise in quality is sustained and not just a momentary aberration, this too will become well known and no company will be able to rest on their laurels. This is of coarse good for all consumers. The fact that Sigma is not just meeting, but improving over the OEM brands for significantly less money is amazing. For now, it is just in their high end models. I wonder if Sigma will be able to compete in the lower end of the market as well. That will really make Nikon and Canon take notice.

To steal a line from a previously mentioned "restaurant", I'm lovin' it!

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Re: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October
« Reply #150 on: April 25, 2014, 05:24:56 PM »

sanj

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Re: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October
« Reply #151 on: April 26, 2014, 12:06:31 AM »
Well, the days of Canon/Nikon taking their own sweet time to update lenses is likely drawing to a close. They could get away with that before, since there was no real competition. Sigma and Tamron have not been taken too seriously by most enthusiasts/professionals for their inconsistencies in build quality, autofocus or whatever. This information would filter down to the average consumer, causing them to stick with OEM products unless budget restraints were critical. If this current rise in quality is sustained and not just a momentary aberration, this too will become well known and no company will be able to rest on their laurels. This is of coarse good for all consumers. The fact that Sigma is not just meeting, but improving over the OEM brands for significantly less money is amazing. For now, it is just in their high end models. I wonder if Sigma will be able to compete in the lower end of the market as well. That will really make Nikon and Canon take notice.

To steal a line from a previously mentioned "restaurant", I'm lovin' it!

Me too!! Lovin' it.

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Re: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October
« Reply #152 on: April 26, 2014, 12:21:43 AM »
Well, the days of Canon/Nikon taking their own sweet time to update lenses is likely drawing to a close. They could get away with that before, since there was no real competition. Sigma and Tamron have not been taken too seriously by most enthusiasts/professionals for their inconsistencies in build quality, autofocus or whatever. This information would filter down to the average consumer, causing them to stick with OEM products unless budget restraints were critical. If this current rise in quality is sustained and not just a momentary aberration, this too will become well known and no company will be able to rest on their laurels. This is of coarse good for all consumers. The fact that Sigma is not just meeting, but improving over the OEM brands for significantly less money is amazing. For now, it is just in their high end models. I wonder if Sigma will be able to compete in the lower end of the market as well. That will really make Nikon and Canon take notice.

To steal a line from a previously mentioned "restaurant", I'm lovin' it!

I think you fundamentally don't get Canon's position. They are a multi billion dollar international corporation and are not overly interested in selling tens of thousands of lenses, they are into selling millions of cameras. Now the P&S cash cow is drying up they are repositioning into the C line, which is probably the only thing keeping any R&D going for us high end body stills shooters, and surveillance cameras hence the ultra low light sensor video R&D etc. They don't see Sigma or Tamron as competition because they aren't, they are comparatively small companies that sell limited quantities of niche products that you need a Canon (or Nikon) product to use, just like ThinkTank, or Adobe.


sanj

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Re: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October
« Reply #153 on: April 26, 2014, 02:59:34 AM »
Well, the days of Canon/Nikon taking their own sweet time to update lenses is likely drawing to a close. They could get away with that before, since there was no real competition. Sigma and Tamron have not been taken too seriously by most enthusiasts/professionals for their inconsistencies in build quality, autofocus or whatever. This information would filter down to the average consumer, causing them to stick with OEM products unless budget restraints were critical. If this current rise in quality is sustained and not just a momentary aberration, this too will become well known and no company will be able to rest on their laurels. This is of coarse good for all consumers. The fact that Sigma is not just meeting, but improving over the OEM brands for significantly less money is amazing. For now, it is just in their high end models. I wonder if Sigma will be able to compete in the lower end of the market as well. That will really make Nikon and Canon take notice.

To steal a line from a previously mentioned "restaurant", I'm lovin' it!

I think you fundamentally don't get Canon's position. They are a multi billion dollar international corporation and are not overly interested in selling tens of thousands of lenses, they are into selling millions of cameras. Now the P&S cash cow is drying up they are repositioning into the C line, which is probably the only thing keeping any R&D going for us high end body stills shooters, and surveillance cameras hence the ultra low light sensor video R&D etc. They don't see Sigma or Tamron as competition because they aren't, they are comparatively small companies that sell limited quantities of niche products that you need a Canon (or Nikon) product to use, just like ThinkTank, or Adobe.

Where could I read more to get a better idea about Canon's fundamental position please?
« Last Edit: April 26, 2014, 05:28:26 AM by sanj »

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Re: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October
« Reply #154 on: April 26, 2014, 03:57:18 AM »
Not sure if this has already been mentioned, but if Sigma are able to give a 24 mm focal length the edge of frame resolution at 1.4-2 that they have achieved in the 35 + 50 Art line ( much more difficult at 24mm I know), then it would actually be a more significant lens to a much larger audience because as the 24mm has a much greater dof, it would be practical to use it at say 2.8 to achieve adequate dof in low light, allowing landscape shooting at lower ISO's and faster shutter speeds in low light, with little vignette.

I think if this was the case we would see a response from Canon in a 24/1.4 III

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Re: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October
« Reply #155 on: April 26, 2014, 07:09:50 AM »
Count me in the crowd that is simply happy that Sigma is providing a quality alternative.  I never thought I'd own a Sigma lens but recently bought the 35A.  I am one of the people that feels the AF is a bit off, but there is no doubting its optics and I am still getting to know it as a lens and do like it.  Primes are niche lenses for me, but I would likely buy the 24A in a heartbeat if it's optics check out, especially corner sharpness and coma.  As a consumer, it is very nice to have quality alternatives. 

While I would love to see additional lens released from Canon and, frankly, find it a bit puzzling what they have and haven't released in 2013 and so far in 2014, I can't bring myself to criticize a company, to the extent some here have, that has produced a wide array of lenses that have been used to produced some of the world's best photographs for decades.  And by wide array, I just counted the following off of Canon USA's website:

51 EF lenses
12 EF-S lenses
2 EF-M lenses (3 if you count the EF-M 11-22)
4 TS-E lenses
2 TC extenders
1 MPE lens

So, Sigma has now released 3-4 "Art" lenses that compete well against specific Canon lenses.  It's nice for us consumers to have alternatives, I am sure Canon is aware of what Sigma has done, but I seriously doubt it represents much of an impact to Canon's thinking even in regards to their lens lineup, much less their overall corporate strategy. 
« Last Edit: April 26, 2014, 08:45:44 AM by docsmith »

brad-man

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Re: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October
« Reply #156 on: April 26, 2014, 08:58:56 AM »
Well, the days of Canon/Nikon taking their own sweet time to update lenses is likely drawing to a close. They could get away with that before, since there was no real competition. Sigma and Tamron have not been taken too seriously by most enthusiasts/professionals for their inconsistencies in build quality, autofocus or whatever. This information would filter down to the average consumer, causing them to stick with OEM products unless budget restraints were critical. If this current rise in quality is sustained and not just a momentary aberration, this too will become well known and no company will be able to rest on their laurels. This is of coarse good for all consumers. The fact that Sigma is not just meeting, but improving over the OEM brands for significantly less money is amazing. For now, it is just in their high end models. I wonder if Sigma will be able to compete in the lower end of the market as well. That will really make Nikon and Canon take notice.

To steal a line from a previously mentioned "restaurant", I'm lovin' it!

I think you fundamentally don't get Canon's position. They are a multi billion dollar international corporation and are not overly interested in selling tens of thousands of lenses, they are into selling millions of cameras. Now the P&S cash cow is drying up they are repositioning into the C line, which is probably the only thing keeping any R&D going for us high end body stills shooters, and surveillance cameras hence the ultra low light sensor video R&D etc. They don't see Sigma or Tamron as competition because they aren't, they are comparatively small companies that sell limited quantities of niche products that you need a Canon (or Nikon) product to use, just like ThinkTank, or Adobe.

I think, fundamentally, that Canon's position is to turn a profit. The fact that Canon Inc is a more diversified company that doesn't derive all it's income from cameras and lenses is irrelevant. While I will certainly agree that it's unlikely that the board of directors are sweating bullets and pulling all-nighters over the rise of Sigma and Tamron, I can assure you that they, or at least their subordinates, look at market share in all divisions with great interest. My point was that if Tamron and Sigma, which most certainly are competitors to Canon, continue to develop high quality lenses at much more reasonable prices, then their market share will certainly increase as word gets out. So far, Sigma is only seriously competing at the higher end of the market and so it could be argued that they are in more direct competition with Zeiss (doesn't that sound funny?) than with Canon. But as Sigma's reputation improves, then its products will become more than just niche lenses and lower cost alternatives for the financially impaired.
Next week we shall discuss sensor development (and profits there from) vis a vie Canon vs Sony :)

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Re: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October
« Reply #156 on: April 26, 2014, 08:58:56 AM »

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Re: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October
« Reply #157 on: April 26, 2014, 09:10:30 AM »
Well, the days of Canon/Nikon taking their own sweet time to update lenses is likely drawing to a close. They could get away with that before, since there was no real competition. Sigma and Tamron have not been taken too seriously by most enthusiasts/professionals for their inconsistencies in build quality, autofocus or whatever. This information would filter down to the average consumer, causing them to stick with OEM products unless budget restraints were critical. If this current rise in quality is sustained and not just a momentary aberration, this too will become well known and no company will be able to rest on their laurels. This is of coarse good for all consumers. The fact that Sigma is not just meeting, but improving over the OEM brands for significantly less money is amazing. For now, it is just in their high end models. I wonder if Sigma will be able to compete in the lower end of the market as well. That will really make Nikon and Canon take notice.

To steal a line from a previously mentioned "restaurant", I'm lovin' it!

I think you fundamentally don't get Canon's position. They are a multi billion dollar international corporation and are not overly interested in selling tens of thousands of lenses, they are into selling millions of cameras. Now the P&S cash cow is drying up they are repositioning into the C line, which is probably the only thing keeping any R&D going for us high end body stills shooters, and surveillance cameras hence the ultra low light sensor video R&D etc. They don't see Sigma or Tamron as competition because they aren't, they are comparatively small companies that sell limited quantities of niche products that you need a Canon (or Nikon) product to use, just like ThinkTank, or Adobe.

Where could I read more to get a better idea about Canon's fundamental position please?

Sanj, your comment is, I hope, tongue in cheek, just look at the release of the 7D successor, or if we want to keep the ideas to strictly lenses the 100-400, 35 f1.4L, 400 f5.6, 50 f1.4, a high quality ultra wide zoom, or even a decent sub 16mm prime.

To see how much pressure Canon feels from third party lens makers just look at where the money on lens R&D has gone, specialised high value lenses that set a standard for a system, the 200-400 f4 1.4TC, the 17mm TS-E, the MkII super teles, or for more modest uses, $500+ f2-2.8 moderate wide primes with IS, 24mm f2.8IS, 28mm f2.8IS 35mm f2IS. How much would you bet that the 45mm TS-E and 90mm TS-E lenses will take up the next significant lens releases? Canon are broadening the appeal of their bodies by pushing the envelop of specialised lens designs, they don't seem too interested, or in a hurry, to make competing lenses with the Sigma Art series.

You can make or agree with hyperbolic comments like "Well, the days of Canon/Nikon taking their own sweet time to update lenses is likely drawing to a close." or you can look at the ample evidence that it is not. Don't forget for one second Canon knows to the exact number the market for the 24mm f1.4 premium lens at the price point they are prepared to sell them at. Nowadays it seems the one who shouts loudest or wishes the most gets the most followers, that doesn't make what they are shouting accurate.

candyman

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Re: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October
« Reply #158 on: April 26, 2014, 03:36:29 PM »
Well, the days of Canon/Nikon taking their own sweet time to update lenses is likely drawing to a close. They could get away with that before, since there was no real competition. Sigma and Tamron have not been taken too seriously by most enthusiasts/professionals for their inconsistencies in build quality, autofocus or whatever. This information would filter down to the average consumer, causing them to stick with OEM products unless budget restraints were critical. If this current rise in quality is sustained and not just a momentary aberration, this too will become well known and no company will be able to rest on their laurels. This is of coarse good for all consumers. The fact that Sigma is not just meeting, but improving over the OEM brands for significantly less money is amazing. For now, it is just in their high end models. I wonder if Sigma will be able to compete in the lower end of the market as well. That will really make Nikon and Canon take notice.

To steal a line from a previously mentioned "restaurant", I'm lovin' it!

I think you fundamentally don't get Canon's position. They are a multi billion dollar international corporation and are not overly interested in selling tens of thousands of lenses, they are into selling millions of cameras. Now the P&S cash cow is drying up they are repositioning into the C line, which is probably the only thing keeping any R&D going for us high end body stills shooters, and surveillance cameras hence the ultra low light sensor video R&D etc. They don't see Sigma or Tamron as competition because they aren't, they are comparatively small companies that sell limited quantities of niche products that you need a Canon (or Nikon) product to use, just like ThinkTank, or Adobe.

Where could I read more to get a better idea about Canon's fundamental position please?


You can start here: http://www.canon.com/ir/annual/2013/report2013.pdf
No?
Page 15: 2014 Initiatives
« Last Edit: April 27, 2014, 10:20:03 AM by candyman »

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Re: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October
« Reply #159 on: April 28, 2014, 03:43:10 AM »


You can make or agree with hyperbolic comments like "Well, the days of Canon/Nikon taking their own sweet time to update lenses is likely drawing to a close." or you can look at the ample evidence that it is not. Don't forget for one second Canon knows to the exact number the market for the 24mm f1.4 premium lens at the price point they are prepared to sell them at. Nowadays it seems the one who shouts loudest or wishes the most gets the most followers, that doesn't make what they are shouting accurate.

I think you are neglecting one important point.

Canon has a multilayer interest in producing lenses. First of all they produce a revenue on their own, otherwise they wouldn't design, manufacture and sell them. Differently from kit lenses and consumer cameras, the target market of expensive lenses is more opinionated and sensitive to quality. The moment you offer them better quality at a lower price, you make them interested. More and more as time goes by and both Sigma and Tamron become established as quality manufacturers.

Second, many people are with Canon because of the lenses and their reputation to be the best. The moment this changes, a big reason for having a Canon system is gone - especially if you take into account that other manufacturers offer better sensors too. So the availability of quality lenses and cameras in different mounts is eventually going to affect camera sales too. Case in point, the latest market share data for Japan showed that Canon is still the market leader but did lose some share. Sigma btw has a quite considerable share of the lens market.

So as someone stated before, Canon executives are not likely to start pulling their hair already, but at the same time I do agree that the Canon/Nikon duopoly is over and that both companies should really rethink their strategy.


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Re: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October
« Reply #160 on: April 28, 2014, 08:59:52 AM »


You can make or agree with hyperbolic comments like "Well, the days of Canon/Nikon taking their own sweet time to update lenses is likely drawing to a close." or you can look at the ample evidence that it is not. Don't forget for one second Canon knows to the exact number the market for the 24mm f1.4 premium lens at the price point they are prepared to sell them at. Nowadays it seems the one who shouts loudest or wishes the most gets the most followers, that doesn't make what they are shouting accurate.

I think you are neglecting one important point.

Canon has a multilayer interest in producing lenses. First of all they produce a revenue on their own, otherwise they wouldn't design, manufacture and sell them. Differently from kit lenses and consumer cameras, the target market of expensive lenses is more opinionated and sensitive to quality. The moment you offer them better quality at a lower price, you make them interested. More and more as time goes by and both Sigma and Tamron become established as quality manufacturers.

Second, many people are with Canon because of the lenses and their reputation to be the best. The moment this changes, a big reason for having a Canon system is gone - especially if you take into account that other manufacturers offer better sensors too. So the availability of quality lenses and cameras in different mounts is eventually going to affect camera sales too. Case in point, the latest market share data for Japan showed that Canon is still the market leader but did lose some share. Sigma btw has a quite considerable share of the lens market.

So as someone stated before, Canon executives are not likely to start pulling their hair already, but at the same time I do agree that the Canon/Nikon duopoly is over and that both companies should really rethink their strategy.

Considering the ratio of lenses to bodies sold, it is evident that the vast majority of buyers have only the lens that came with the camera.  Bearing in mind that some kits include two lenses, and the Nifty-50 is the most popular lens sold on it's own, it is safe to say that the vast majority of the market is driven by the entry-level segment and in particular by camera bodies (feel free to argue that Sigma makes bodies too, we could use a good chuckle).  While higher end lenses will remain a mainstay in Canon's lineup, a relatively small number of good quality third-party lenses is not going to have a major impact on Canon's (or Nikon's) bottom line.

Sigma's recent foray into the design and production of higher quality 'Global Vision' lenses is a major departure from their previous strategy.  That suggests they decided they were not successful at competing with Canon/Nikon at the entry level end of the market, and have decided to try competing in a much smaller segment of the market.  How successful they are this time remains to be seen, but the fact that the AF bugaboo is still rearing its ugly head for them suggests the road ahead may be bumpy.

Would you mind sharing the source for the recent market data to which you refer?
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Re: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October
« Reply #161 on: April 28, 2014, 03:47:26 PM »


You can make or agree with hyperbolic comments like "Well, the days of Canon/Nikon taking their own sweet time to update lenses is likely drawing to a close." or you can look at the ample evidence that it is not. Don't forget for one second Canon knows to the exact number the market for the 24mm f1.4 premium lens at the price point they are prepared to sell them at. Nowadays it seems the one who shouts loudest or wishes the most gets the most followers, that doesn't make what they are shouting accurate.

I think you are neglecting one important point.

Canon has a multilayer interest in producing lenses. First of all they produce a revenue on their own, otherwise they wouldn't design, manufacture and sell them. Differently from kit lenses and consumer cameras, the target market of expensive lenses is more opinionated and sensitive to quality. The moment you offer them better quality at a lower price, you make them interested. More and more as time goes by and both Sigma and Tamron become established as quality manufacturers.

Second, many people are with Canon because of the lenses and their reputation to be the best. The moment this changes, a big reason for having a Canon system is gone - especially if you take into account that other manufacturers offer better sensors too. So the availability of quality lenses and cameras in different mounts is eventually going to affect camera sales too. Case in point, the latest market share data for Japan showed that Canon is still the market leader but did lose some share. Sigma btw has a quite considerable share of the lens market.

So as someone stated before, Canon executives are not likely to start pulling their hair already, but at the same time I do agree that the Canon/Nikon duopoly is over and that both companies should really rethink their strategy.

Firstly, that was two points, not one.

To address your first, if Canon already make a premium 24/35/50 it becomes a consumer choice, but the high end appeal for many Canon system owners is the unmatched diversity in the EF lens range, things like the 17 and 24 TS-E, the 65 MP-E etc. Now what would attract more people to Canon, yet another 24mm option or a kick ass 45 TS-E? My opinion is the 45 TS-E, we already have a choice of 24's so nobody is going to leave because there isn't one, but people might come for the new lenses that offer ever greater diversity, using that reasoning it makes more sense for Canon to ignore Sigma's latest offerings, until they want to break the communication protocols again and send this second generation of Sigma EF worshipers into the depths of despair the first generation did, and concentrate on completely different lens designs like TS-E's, small medium speed primes with IS, video orientated AF etc.

As for your second, what is the point of a lens without a body? The reputation is not for a lens, it is for the images the system can create, if they keep coming out with class leading bodies, like the 1Dx vs D4s, the 5D MkIII vs the D800 and the 6D vs the D600 (which has been banned from sale in China!) then minor differences in lens output will remain irrelevant. Things like the RT flash system will win far more new Canon converts than a few lppmm on a test chart of a new version of a lens.

But we digress, for Canon stills shooters the writing is on the wall, video and surveillance are the new darlings and progressively less and less will be spent on R&D for purely stills orientated equipment. Canon are making brand new groundbreaking world class lenses at comparative bargain prices, it is just that we are not the market for them. I have exactly the same feeling for stills orientated shooters as I had for the development of film cameras when I bought my two 1VHS's. The only recent key stills only orientated development was the RT flash system, and it is a winner against a sea of copies, clones and competing third party options.

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Re: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October
« Reply #162 on: April 30, 2014, 11:33:47 AM »
Sir, am I correct in jumping to the conclusion, that...based on your assertion, I should not buy a woman flowers if she shouts louder than I do?  It almost makes sense... :D

Carl,

It is fairly clear nobody will stop you jumping to conclusions, and all power to you for your enthusiasm and gusto. As for your choice in women, it has been my experience that only relatively inexperienced men think they are the ones that actually make the choice.

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Re: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October
« Reply #162 on: April 30, 2014, 11:33:47 AM »

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Re: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October
« Reply #163 on: July 28, 2014, 02:53:48 PM »
Sigma is planning to announce a 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art series lens at Photokina with availability coming in October of 2014.

There has been no word on the possible 85mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art or 135mm f/1.8DG HSM Art lenses. I think both the 85 and 135 would be more highly desired than a 24mm prime, though if it’s as good as the 35mm or 50mm, we’ll take it anyway.

I didn't pay attention to this announcement in April, but recently I bought a second hand Canon 24mm f/2.8 to get a taste for 24mm primes, and... fell in love with it. And now I want more!

So I checked out the image quality charts on The Digital Picture.com, but there seems to be little improvement in MTF, going from the Canon f/2.8 to the f/2.8 IS model, see: http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=246&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=788&CameraComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0

I agree that handling, AF and IS would be improvements, but not enough to justify the added cost. And for my porposes the 24mm L II is too expensive, for such a specialty lens.

So again I feel I'm in need of a lens that doesn't exist, but may be imminent. So please let it be. Here's me hoping for the 24mm Art to be announced at Photokina in September!!! :D

In the mean time I think I may sell my 20mm f/1.8 - that focal length is quite close to 24mm and in my experience I don't use the lens all that much because it's too limiting (too wide) for reportage work. I often shoot with a combination of a wide prime (24 or 35mm) on my 5DMkII and a tele-zoom on the MkIII.
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Re: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October
« Reply #164 on: August 05, 2014, 11:09:29 AM »
I didn't pay attention to this announcement in April, but recently I bought a second hand Canon 24mm f/2.8 to get a taste for 24mm primes, and... fell in love with it. And now I want more!
Congrats and welcome to the 24mm fan club :)  It's my favorite which might explain the four lenses I own that cover this focal length which could be just a bit excessive...

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Re: Sigma 24mm f/1.4 DG HSM Art Coming in October
« Reply #164 on: August 05, 2014, 11:09:29 AM »