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Author Topic: RED - Scarlet.....  (Read 5162 times)

n8mills

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RED - Scarlet.....
« on: November 04, 2011, 01:07:37 PM »
the new RED Scarlet  can take 5K (5120 x 2700) resolution stills at 12fps. for under 10k

and it takes canons lenses

just blows anything canon has out of the water - assuming one can afford this.



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RED - Scarlet.....
« on: November 04, 2011, 01:07:37 PM »

HurtinMinorKey

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Re: RED - Scarlet.....
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2011, 02:02:17 PM »
At first glance, based on the specs, one would have to agree, but the only way to truly tell the difference is side by side comparison of performance.

Red has always had trouble reproducing colors accurately.  Just compare blu-ray copies of "Fight Club" to "the Social Network" (both by badass director David Fincher).

Fight Club (shot on film) looks sooooo much better than the social network (shot on red epic) it's not even funny.

I'd rather have good color at 2k than so-so color at 4k.  If canon can do this, then maybe it's worth the extra coin.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2011, 03:50:29 PM by HurtinMinorKey »

Policar

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Re: RED - Scarlet.....
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2011, 02:20:53 PM »
Yes, the red is a huge pain in the ass...  It's possible to get good results out of it, but the colors do look pretty muted (even when graded very well) and the camera is buggy and requires constant software and firmware updates.

It's great if you love being on the bleeding edge...  If you just want to shoot good video and stills fast, it's, imo, a pain.  And transcode times at 4k are brutal, for 5k, even more so.

seanmcr6

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Re: RED - Scarlet.....
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2011, 04:13:18 PM »
A. WTF wants to transcode?
B. Canon showed many real-world demos yesterday, where the hell are Scarlet's?

Both of these camera's are nothing but spec lists at this point. I'll wait til both are available and there are solid demos made....

Stu_bert

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Re: RED - Scarlet.....
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2011, 04:22:50 PM »
Yup, Peter Jackson's latest blog on the Hobbit says the same - OTT colours on the scenery in Mirkwood, additional red on the actors faces because the Red Epic doesn't do colour in the same way...
If life is all about what you do in the time that you have, then photography is about the pictures you take not the kit that took it. Still it's fun to talk about the kit, present or future :)

Edwin Herdman

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Re: RED - Scarlet.....
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2011, 05:05:45 PM »
RED's folks say their servers got hacked (I didn't think of trying to visit the website) so Jannard had to come out and demo, as the piece said.  Conspiracy theory time!

FredBGG

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Re: RED - Scarlet.....
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2011, 05:43:20 PM »
RED's folks say their servers got hacked so Jannard had to come out and demo, as the piece said.  Conspiracy theory time!

That is such bullshit.

First of all if you are having a demo in front of an audience, even if you are showing them
a presentation hosted on your website you use a local copy right off a laptop or desktop computer.

Also if you are presenting a camera that is 2k or 4k you don't show internet footage.

The truth is that Red did not know what was coming from Canon so they had to improvise.

Red unfortunately has a reputation of unstable cameras that crash. On top of that it is not very
reassuring that the scarlet X is being built around reject processors from production of the Epic.

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Re: RED - Scarlet.....
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2011, 05:43:20 PM »

Stu_bert

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Re: RED - Scarlet.....
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2011, 06:34:37 PM »
RED's folks say their servers got hacked so Jannard had to come out and demo, as the piece said.  Conspiracy theory time!

That is such bullS___.

First of all if you are having a demo in front of an audience, even if you are showing them
a presentation hosted on your website you use a local copy right off a laptop or desktop computer.

Also if you are presenting a camera that is 2k or 4k you don't show internet footage.

The truth is that Red did not know what was coming from Canon so they had to improvise.

Red unfortunately has a reputation of unstable cameras that crash. On top of that it is not very
reassuring that the scarlet X is being built around reject processors from production of the Epic.

Maybe they do, and maybe that's why Peter Jackson needs soooo many for the Hobbit  ;)

Somewhere along the lines however, the positives for the Epic must be outweighing the negatives by a long chalk for him to be using them on a major production....

Does a small company like Red fear the 800lb Gorilla, Canon? Of course they do. And has Canon just released the spec of a camera (1Dx) with a few sample shots and lots of "well crafted" prints of capabilities but won't ship anything till Mar/Apr/May 2012? Yep, sure has... Might that be because Canon worried about Nikon and Sony??? Yup

So the difference between Red and Canon is? ???
If life is all about what you do in the time that you have, then photography is about the pictures you take not the kit that took it. Still it's fun to talk about the kit, present or future :)

HurtinMinorKey

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Re: RED - Scarlet.....
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2011, 07:10:05 PM »
So the difference between Red and Canon is? ???

If canon charges you $20K for a Camera, you're actors won't have to wear special makeup(see post about the hobbit above) to account for sketchy color.

Stu_bert

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Re: RED - Scarlet.....
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2011, 08:19:21 PM »
So the difference between Red and Canon is? ???

If canon charges you $20K for a Camera, you're actors won't have to wear special makeup(see post about the hobbit above) to account for sketchy color.

I think the point was more about companies misleading the public and other companies with their announcements, but yes I wrote the reference about The Hobbit...

Point still remains that Mr Jackson considers even this to be outweighed by the benefits of the Epic....
If life is all about what you do in the time that you have, then photography is about the pictures you take not the kit that took it. Still it's fun to talk about the kit, present or future :)

Edwin Herdman

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Re: RED - Scarlet.....
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2011, 11:14:54 PM »
RED's folks say their servers got hacked so Jannard had to come out and demo, as the piece said.  Conspiracy theory time!

That is such bullS___.

First of all if you are having a demo in front of an audience, even if you are showing them
a presentation hosted on your website you use a local copy right off a laptop or desktop computer.
You'd think so.  Even Microsoft has had to learn this lesson the hard way (see: BSOD in a Windows demo).  On the other hand, "faked" demo stuff can be bad (see Adobe motion blur elimination "precomputed blur" fiasco).

I think the big problem for RED was that their website was supposed to be updating for a web audience, and with the servers down that couldn't happen, obviously.
Point still remains that Mr Jackson considers even this to be outweighed by the benefits of the Epic....
Well, even Mr. Jackson has to deal with price and the currently available systems.  He might change his mind with a C300 demo - or not.  I definitely do not have it out for RED - I would like to see them persist in the marketplace and even go on to do bigger and better things.  That said, it's starting to look like economies of scale are their nemesis and Canon might squash it with theirs.

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: RED - Scarlet.....
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2011, 11:24:23 PM »
the new RED Scarlet  can take 5K (5120 x 2700) resolution stills at 12fps. for under 10k

and it takes canons lenses

just blows anything canon has out of the water - assuming one can afford this.

I'd be interested in seeing videos from the 10K Red body with your Canon lens.  From what I can tell, it requires a few thousand dollars more of additional items before you can use it.

Red sells pieces a la carte, not a complete camera.

NormanBates

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Re: RED - Scarlet.....
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2011, 06:05:46 AM »
price comparison taking accessories into account:
http://nofilmschool.com/2011/11/ready-shoot-prices-canon-eos-c300-red/

as for image quality of RED Scarlet footage, you can expect it to be exactly the same as with the EPIC: it is basically the same camera, with a slower ASIC (the digic processor on Canon cameras); so it has less processing power and therefore can only offer slower frame rates, less HDRx options, etc, but at 4K 24p it will be basically the same image (which, when you think of it, is awesome: 90% of what's shot on these cinema cameras is 24p, and for that what they've done is take the price of the brain down from $28K to $10K)

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Re: RED - Scarlet.....
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2011, 06:05:46 AM »

n8mills

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Re: RED - Scarlet.....
« Reply #13 on: November 05, 2011, 09:26:14 AM »
though at half the price...... - is the colour the only thing? it shoots in raw anyways - gives a lot of room to move in post. if one was going to use this for just still work, is there anything cheaper that produces 5k stills?

http://www.roundshot.ch/xml_1/internet/de/application/d438/d925/f934.cfm

NormanBates

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Re: RED - Scarlet.....
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2011, 11:35:24 AM »
18 Mpix is more than 5K

these RED cameras have a 5120 (h) x 2700 (v) Bayer sensor, and therefore about 14 Mpix

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Re: RED - Scarlet.....
« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2011, 11:35:24 AM »