September 30, 2014, 09:04:58 PM

Author Topic: 20D strange shot limit?  (Read 4094 times)

Valvebounce

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20D strange shot limit?
« on: May 05, 2014, 08:49:55 PM »
Hi Folks.

I have an issue with my 20D, I was trying to use it for the first time to take time lapse shots, I intended to make an HD video of a car club event. I know I have better gear in my arsenal, but even the 20D medium jpegs will be big enough for HD, and the suction mount I have has once dropped a camera, it was only in the car, but I don't like the idea of the better camera bouncing in to the footwell so 20D it was.
The problem is it takes on average 25 shots then stops and waits, then will start again. The timer is a Phottix which I have used to drive my 300D all day before I replaced it with the 20D, so I do not suspect the timer. Also the timer is still running the countdown sequence, just the camera doesn't fire, plus if I do stop and restart immediately the camera will continue for 25 more shots.

Please don't hit me with RTFM, I have RTFM'd and I know that at 5fps the buffer will hold about 20 large fine jpegs depending on things like ISO etc. I'm shooting at 1 frame every 3 seconds, the write led stops flashing before the next shot is taken so I don't think it is a buffer depth issue, especially as I have also tried it on medium fine jpeg which should increase the amount of shots the buffer will hold to thirty or more.
The camera is set on full manual (1/640th at f11 ISO 400) including focus which I set between 10m and infinity, AF mode was on 1 shot (dont know if this has any effect with the lens set on MF) and drive mode was on single frame. I did have IS on to help with camera movement on our rough roads, but I just finished taking 200 shots of a blank wall with the camera on a stand on a concrete floor with carpet in our living room, so I think that could eliminate the OS as a factor. Over the 200 shots I counted four lots of 25 shots, two lots of 24 shots and two lots of 26 shots all separated by gaps of at least 20 seconds up to maybe 40 seconds.

Sorry for the length of post but I tried to get all the relevant information included to help with diagnosing this.
Any help or suggestions gratefully received, thanks in advance.

Cheers Graham.

7D + Grip, 40D + Grip, 20D, EF-S 17-85 Kit lens, EF 70-200 f2.8 L IS II USM, EF 2x III, Sigma 150-500, Sigma 17-70 f2.8-4 C, 50mm f1.8, 550EX some Filters Remotes Macro tubes Tripod heads etc!
20D, BG-E2N, 17-85mm, 50mm are pre loved. :)
(300D Saved a holiday, E-FS 18-55 Cosina 100-300 retired)

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20D strange shot limit?
« on: May 05, 2014, 08:49:55 PM »

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: 20D strange shot limit?
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2014, 09:55:37 PM »
It could be a memory card issue, not likely, but try it with a different card. 
 
Can you manually close the shutter and see if it stops after 20 times?
 
A battery problem either in the timer or camera??
 
There is no reason I can think of as to why it would stop if everything is working properly.

tolusina

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Re: 20D strange shot limit?
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2014, 10:35:43 PM »
Here's a long shot, can't hurt.
Set AF to AI Servo, set it to back button focus, all your other settings the same, including lens manual focus.
See what goes from there.

My logic is based on recent experience trying to help a friend configure back button focus on another older but other brand camera. With BBF and one shot AF, shutter would not fire without focus confirmation.
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Don Haines

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Re: 20D strange shot limit?
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2014, 10:35:57 PM »
If you change the time per shot from 3 seconds to 5 seconds and it still locks up after the same number of shots, then it is not buffer depth problems.

Btw, have you tried saving as smaller files or on a different card?
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Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: 20D strange shot limit?
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2014, 11:45:16 PM »
Here's a long shot, can't hurt.
Set AF to AI Servo, set it to back button focus, all your other settings the same, including lens manual focus.
See what goes from there.

My logic is based on recent experience trying to help a friend configure back button focus on another older but other brand camera. With BBF and one shot AF, shutter would not fire without focus confirmation.

That's correct, Canon cameras with AI servo must have AF confirmation for the shutter to close.
 
However, he is using manual focus and manual exposure, so if the camera is trying to focus, its not working correctly.

Valvebounce

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Re: 20D strange shot limit?
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2014, 04:34:53 AM »
Hi Mt Spokane.
It could be a memory card issue, not likely, but try it with a different card. 
 
Can you manually close the shutter and see if it stops after 20 times?
 
A battery problem either in the timer or camera??
 
There is no reason I can think of as to why it would stop if everything is working properly.

The card was a 16Gb from my 7D which will happily accept full speed bursts from the 7D without issue, I will try a smaller card in case it is not liking the 16Gb size?
I will try manual shutter using the timer as a guide, to ensure a proper comparison.
The camera battery was fully charged and showing full on the display, I will try a new button cell in the remote and a different camera battery, maybe pop the grip on it and 2 batteries just for proof!


Hi Don.
If you change the time per shot from 3 seconds to 5 seconds and it still locks up after the same number of shots, then it is not buffer depth problems.

Btw, have you tried saving as smaller files or on a different card?


I was initially using large fine jpeg, I did try saving medium fine jpeg in the field, it didn't seem to change the shot limit, but I will run a measured test to confirm.

I will try the longer interval, it might help prove a point.


Hi tolusina.
Here's a long shot, can't hurt.
Set AF to AI Servo, set it to back button focus, all your other settings the same, including lens manual focus.
See what goes from there.

My logic is based on recent experience trying to help a friend configure back button focus on another older but other brand camera. With BBF and one shot AF, shutter would not fire without focus confirmation.


Now you mention it the cameras are all set on BBF, I switched it from AI Servo to One Shot due to some logical thought  ::) about focus hunting, I don't think this is the issue as I plonked the camera on the stand about 1.5m from the wall during the test, the focus was still set to 10m from earlier and the camera would take it's batch of OOF images before pausing (I think at f11 the dof might have covered 1.5m but wide open during focus it's definitely OOF) this confirming to me it was not a focus confirm issue. However I will try just in case, can't hurt!

Thanks Folks, some stuff to try here, I will report back with results hopefully later today.
One I am going to try using my 40D for a test to see if it is a timer issue? Maybe? Might prove a point.

Cheers Graham.
7D + Grip, 40D + Grip, 20D, EF-S 17-85 Kit lens, EF 70-200 f2.8 L IS II USM, EF 2x III, Sigma 150-500, Sigma 17-70 f2.8-4 C, 50mm f1.8, 550EX some Filters Remotes Macro tubes Tripod heads etc!
20D, BG-E2N, 17-85mm, 50mm are pre loved. :)
(300D Saved a holiday, E-FS 18-55 Cosina 100-300 retired)

Valvebounce

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Re: 20D strange shot limit?
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2014, 08:20:01 PM »
Hi folks.
Just to keep you up to date.
I tried a new cell in the remote, no change.
I tried a slightly slower 2Gb card, it didn't get better or worse.
I tried the AI Servo suggestion, but on switching to manual focus the AF box on the display goes blank.
I tried the manual trigger at the 3 second interval, I got to 55 shots before I got a honey can you do....   ;D
I tried my 40D with the remote, no problems, would still be clunking away now if I didn't stop it when it got to 100 shots
I tried switching the IS off, no change.
I tried Av and Tv modes, still paused at 25 shots, ie no change.
Tried with the battery fresh off the charger, no change, didn't get to try with the grip.
Didn't get to try a longer (5s) interval, but the manual trigger works ok.

Cheers Graham.
7D + Grip, 40D + Grip, 20D, EF-S 17-85 Kit lens, EF 70-200 f2.8 L IS II USM, EF 2x III, Sigma 150-500, Sigma 17-70 f2.8-4 C, 50mm f1.8, 550EX some Filters Remotes Macro tubes Tripod heads etc!
20D, BG-E2N, 17-85mm, 50mm are pre loved. :)
(300D Saved a holiday, E-FS 18-55 Cosina 100-300 retired)

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Re: 20D strange shot limit?
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2014, 08:20:01 PM »

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: 20D strange shot limit?
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2014, 10:49:41 PM »
Hi folks.
Just to keep you up to date.
I tried a new cell in the remote, no change.
I tried a slightly slower 2Gb card, it didn't get better or worse.
I tried the AI Servo suggestion, but on switching to manual focus the AF box on the display goes blank.
I tried the manual trigger at the 3 second interval, I got to 55 shots before I got a honey can you do....   ;D
I tried my 40D with the remote, no problems, would still be clunking away now if I didn't stop it when it got to 100 shots
I tried switching the IS off, no change.
I tried Av and Tv modes, still paused at 25 shots, ie no change.
Tried with the battery fresh off the charger, no change, didn't get to try with the grip.
Didn't get to try a longer (5s) interval, but the manual trigger works ok.

Cheers Graham.

It sounds like you've definitely narrowed it down to the camera.  It sounds to me like its filling the buffer and then stopping while it writes to the card.  It really should not be doing this. 
 
Its not for certain that its not just a limitation of the old camera design, I sold mine many years ago.  As cheap as DSLR's are right now, I'd upgrade to a 40D.  Mine went on sale on Ebay yesterday, it was the 5th one I owned, but when I took some product photography photos of bright red hats a few days ago, I ran into the old issue of how the reds are over exposed on many Canon DSLR's, and after shooting with my 5D MK III and comparing the reduced for web shots, there was a huge difference in color accuracy and in resolution even though they were only 1024 X 1024.  Now, I'm using the 5D3 for that, even though I did not buy it for that purpose.  I might buy a refurb 70D tp replace it once Canon starts offering it on the Canon Loyalty Program for 20% off the refurb price.
 
 

philmoz

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Re: 20D strange shot limit?
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2014, 01:52:54 AM »
Probably a long shot; but have you tried resetting all camera settings, and removing both batteries for a while.

Phil.

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Re: 20D strange shot limit?
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2014, 01:24:06 PM »
Hi Mt Spokane.
I suspected the buffer, but if I manually press the button every 3 seconds, using the timer remote disconected just to watch for the moment to press the button, it will go well past the 24-26 limit encountered when triggered remotely, I got to 55 without problem until I was called away from my fiddling.

Hi Phil.
I haven't done a full reset yet, and I shy away from that, probably because I forget there is so little to customise compared to the 40D and 7D.  The 7D is somewhat of a nightmare to reconfigure after a full reset!

Cheers Graham.


Probably a long shot; but have you tried resetting all camera settings, and removing both batteries for a while.

Phil.
7D + Grip, 40D + Grip, 20D, EF-S 17-85 Kit lens, EF 70-200 f2.8 L IS II USM, EF 2x III, Sigma 150-500, Sigma 17-70 f2.8-4 C, 50mm f1.8, 550EX some Filters Remotes Macro tubes Tripod heads etc!
20D, BG-E2N, 17-85mm, 50mm are pre loved. :)
(300D Saved a holiday, E-FS 18-55 Cosina 100-300 retired)

BumpyMunky

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Re: 20D strange shot limit?
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2014, 01:43:51 AM »
Any chance you have the auto power-off setting enabled?   Maybe the 20d doesn't see the remote the same as a button press?

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: 20D strange shot limit?
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2014, 08:28:18 PM »
Well, I bought a 20D today just to check it and see if it does the same. 
 
Actually, it was $120 with 2 lenses, and was working, so I figured I'd play with it for a while, and then sell it separately from the lenses.
 
I have a Canon self timer that I'll try, it might be a couple days before I manage to find time.

Valvebounce

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Re: 20D strange shot limit?
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2014, 04:15:05 AM »
Hi BumpyMunky.
The power off is set to 4 minutes, and the shot interval is 3 seconds, so at 25 shots it is pausing long before the sleep time, however I will try disabling the power off setting.

Hi Mt Spokane.
I say old bean, how jolly decent of you to buy a camera just to research my issue.  ;D  I would appreciate you doing some research of this kind. In case it helps the card I started off using was a 16Gb Kingston Ultimate 600x then I tried a 2Gb Kingston Standard to eliminate the possibility of the camera not liking the large card, (clutching at straws!) nothing different.
Just out of interest were the lenses anything interesting?

Cheers Graham.

Any chance you have the auto power-off setting enabled?   Maybe the 20d doesn't see the remote the same as a button press?

Well, I bought a 20D today just to check it and see if it does the same. 
 
Actually, it was $120 with 2 lenses, and was working, so I figured I'd play with it for a while, and then sell it separately from the lenses.
 
I have a Canon self timer that I'll try, it might be a couple days before I manage to find time.
7D + Grip, 40D + Grip, 20D, EF-S 17-85 Kit lens, EF 70-200 f2.8 L IS II USM, EF 2x III, Sigma 150-500, Sigma 17-70 f2.8-4 C, 50mm f1.8, 550EX some Filters Remotes Macro tubes Tripod heads etc!
20D, BG-E2N, 17-85mm, 50mm are pre loved. :)
(300D Saved a holiday, E-FS 18-55 Cosina 100-300 retired)

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Re: 20D strange shot limit?
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2014, 04:15:05 AM »

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: 20D strange shot limit?
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2014, 10:28:10 AM »
It came with a card in it that I haven't looked at, and a 85 MB card as well.  There was even a SD card in with it.
 
I remember when I bought a 85MB card for my Nikon CP990 back around 2001.  It cost almost $300.  Back then, P&S cameras came with 2, 4, or sometimes 8mb cards. but, as now, DSLR's did not include cards.

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Re: 20D strange shot limit?
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2014, 08:37:07 PM »
I pulled out the 20D today, and looked at the card in the camera, it was a old Hitachi 6GB Type II Microdrive.  Talk about old.
 
I had a no name (Literally) 4GB card laying around, so after charging the battery, cleaning the sensor and a general checkup, as well as clearing all the settings, and then setting it to raw, I gave it a try.
 
I hooked up my Canon TC-80N3 and shot off about 40 images at ISO 400, 1/50 sec in manual mode with manual focus and 3 sec intervals.  I could see it was taking about 2 seconds for the light to go out, and then, I realized it was in raw, so the files were larger.
 
Then I switched to large jpeg, and shot another 40 in a row with no issue.
 
I then put a faster spare Sandisk 16 GB 60mb/sec card in and shot off 50 images at 1/sec with no delays. 
 
Finally, I put the old generic card back in and shot off 50 images on one sec intervals.  The write light just barely flickered between shots, but it was obvious that it could keep going forever that way with a slow card.
 
Its somewhat a puzzle as to why your camera is stopping, but I would clear it back to the original settings and try that.  There are some settings that could cause issues, so its best to test it with the default settings.
 
I like the old camera, it works well.  The small LCD is really the only drawback.  The sensor does have a few white pixels, but that's pretty normal for a old sensor, and NR in Lightroom removes them in any event.

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Re: 20D strange shot limit?
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2014, 08:37:07 PM »