November 25, 2014, 07:55:35 PM

Author Topic: So I really stepped into it....  (Read 2119 times)

Menace

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Re: So I really stepped into it....
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2014, 05:13:48 PM »
Thanks for sharing - you are NOT an embarrassment to Photography!  Sometimes our best intentions go astry. 

Personally,  I tend not to critique on FB or online  but do invite those people to book a one to one session with me (for a fee) and receive my advise!

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Re: So I really stepped into it....
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2014, 05:13:48 PM »

agierke

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Re: So I really stepped into it....
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2014, 12:14:15 AM »
local photo clubs are often the worst place to get innovative, thought provoking and open minded discussion about progressing photographic technique.

they are often run by long time amateurs who's skill and experience plateau well below an advanced, well versed professional. i have found that they tend to exist only to slap each others backs and boost the egos of whoever is running the show.

i've run across a number of them in my area and i avoid them like the plague...

not to be overly harsh, i'm sure there may be some good ones out there...but as a rule of thumb i wouldn't put too much stock in them at all.

this community far exceeds the experience one can get from a local camera club imo.
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wickidwombat

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Re: So I really stepped into it....
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2014, 12:26:23 AM »
local photo clubs are often the worst place to get innovative, thought provoking and open minded discussion about progressing photographic technique.

they are often run by long time amateurs who's skill and experience plateau well below an advanced, well versed professional. i have found that they tend to exist only to slap each others backs and boost the egos of whoever is running the show.

i've run across a number of them in my area and i avoid them like the plague...

not to be overly harsh, i'm sure there may be some good ones out there...but as a rule of thumb i wouldn't put too much stock in them at all.

this community far exceeds the experience one can get from a local camera club imo.

good summary, also don't forget everyone on Facebook is an expert at everything...
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Menace

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Re: So I really stepped into it....
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2014, 12:53:13 AM »
local photo clubs are often the worst place to get innovative, thought provoking and open minded discussion about progressing photographic technique.

they are often run by long time amateurs who's skill and experience plateau well below an advanced, well versed professional. i have found that they tend to exist only to slap each others backs and boost the egos of whoever is running the show.

i've run across a number of them in my area and i avoid them like the plague...

not to be overly harsh, i'm sure there may be some good ones out there...but as a rule of thumb i wouldn't put too much stock in them at all.

this community far exceeds the experience one can get from a local camera club imo.

good summary, also don't forget everyone on Facebook is an expert at everything...

Anyone who can take a half decent selfie on FB is a 'photographer'.
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jrista

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Re: So I really stepped into it....
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2014, 12:56:01 AM »
good summary, also don't forget everyone on Facebook is an expert at everything...

My motto is similar, but different:

Just forget Facebook!! :P

 ;D ;D ;D

@JD:

Facebook, like most other social networks online, is a cesspool. It doesn't matter what goes in, everything that comes out is covered in sh*t. I was one of the early members of Facebook within a month or so after it came online, back when MySpace was THE place that EVERYONE was...and everyone gave you a quizzical look when you said "I'm on Facebook!" These days...I honestly wish I'd never registered my account. I no longer have any personal info on there. I've denied access to my facebook account to most everything, I've eliminated every game that somehow became linked into it, etc. I only use it for occasional updates about my photography and a very few other things. I'm also on twitter...it's pretty much purely about my photography, and that is just done automatically when I update my WordPress blog.

If this all happened on Facebook, I'd just completely forget it. I think your demonstration images with the figurine were excellent and very explanatory. The advice you gave was solid. The problem with people these days is more often than not, they already think they are experts at whatever it is they think they are experts at...when they ask for advice, they aren't looking for advice...they are simply looking for someone to reinforce their already-formulated and overly inflated opinion of themselves and their skill. I think you got sucked into one of those inverted vortices where yes means no and "Help me" really means "Assert my own opinion of myself...verify me, so I can feel good!"

Bleh. Facebook. BARF.

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Re: So I really stepped into it....
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2014, 05:29:17 AM »
Well, here's my response Joe. These action figure images are an embarrassment and if I were you wouldn't hold them up as an example of anything even remotely related to good photography. This page represents the local (sic) Camera Club and I think we can do better than this.

 ;D;D



Well you know what to do there then: give that lot a wide berth  ;)

I thought your last picture was a very good example of how to make a picture more pleasing to the eye.

Maximilian

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Re: So I really stepped into it....
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2014, 07:08:04 AM »
and finally...

And here is the comment about being an embarrassment to all things photography.

[...]
This page represents the local (sic) Camera Club and I think we can do better than this.
JD, I think, my initial response to them would be: “Stop yelling! Prove it!”
And I think, can understand your emotions and anger about this. You put energy and passion in you explanations. And this is what you got… 
But with a little more distance I would say, it’s just a waste of oxygen and energy.
So let it go.

IMHO you did quite a good job in teaching and showing your way to improve the pictures and I really enjoyed your representative example pictures.
I suppose I wouldn’t have done this in the same situation, although I also like sharing knowledge.
Maybe you should have asked a few more questions to know which way to go, as dcm explained before.
Now take a deep breath, take all the other good advices here into account, when it comes to a similar situation and try to make it better or more pleasing for you the next time.
But please, if someone else is asking you again, still feel your passion of sharing your knowledge, because this time he or she is surely more willing to learn.
sometimes you have to close your eyes to see properly.

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Re: So I really stepped into it....
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2014, 07:08:04 AM »

jdramirez

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Re: So I really stepped into it....
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2014, 07:34:36 AM »
local photo clubs are often the worst place to get innovative, thought provoking and open minded discussion about progressing photographic technique.

they are often run by long time amateurs who's skill and experience plateau well below an advanced, well versed professional. i have found that they tend to exist only to slap each others backs and boost the egos of whoever is running the show.

i've run across a number of them in my area and i avoid them like the plague...

not to be overly harsh, i'm sure there may be some good ones out there...but as a rule of thumb i wouldn't put too much stock in them at all.

this community far exceeds the experience one can get from a local camera club imo.
Much of what you say rings true.  Most of what is put up there is wide angle landscape... which isn't my favorite so I don't bother commenting.  If you don't have anything nice to say... and I pretty much do the same here.  But if someone ASKS, what would you do or what did I do wrong... I have thoughts that I'm willing to share.  It doesn't mean that I'm right, but I have thoughts... do with them what you will.

They do have meeting, that I never attend, and they do have group outings, that I never attend.  Paying $100 to go see the inside of a ghost house doesn't really appeal to me.  I can see the inside of my house for FREE.  And unless I have guaranteed a 1 on 1 sit down interview with the ghost... it really seems like a stupid waste of time.  But I digress.

I think I am going to opt out.  I had a whole mess of unwritten rules placed upon me:

Quote
...a place to encourage and gently direct someone by posting one (not many) comment about how you think a photo can be improved. Then let the rest of your ideas go.

But even before you do that, please begin to post some of your own photos (not of toys for examples) to show you are serious about being a productive member of our FB page. We have many members who do not post photos but neither do they pontificate about knowing more than the rest of us.

So the rules are simple:
1-Post your own photos (no flooding) and be accepting of others comments even if you don't agree- or get booted
2-Be encouraging and not a know-it-all, or get booted
3-Feel free to comment, but if someone has another thought then fine don't start a tit-for-tat war: let it go! Or get booted

So evidently answering someone's question in detail is being a know it all.  And only one suggestions... ok... how about get stuff in focus because blurry images are bad images... but no.  Deep breath...

It's my own fault really.  I suggested the foreground background thing... and I posted examples... and they said they didn't like them... which is fine because I wasn't in love with them either... but then I posted pro examples from Getty that showed basically what I was showing and evidently the 6 images I put up are 5 too many.  Ugh.  Stupid unwritten rules.
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mackguyver

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Re: So I really stepped into it....
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2014, 07:54:35 AM »
Those are the worst photos I've ever seen and you should give up photography AND mail me all of your gear, immediately  ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

Obviously, I'm kidding and as the saying goes, no good deed goes unpunished.  You tried to be helpful by posting conceptual photos and the thanks you got was a bunch of crap in return.

I'm with agierke on his comments about local photo clubs.  There's one where I shoot the most and they snob me like you wouldn't believe.  I entered their photo contest, thinking it was for the National Wildlife Refuge (NWR), not their club, several years ago and a bunch of crappy photos beat mine.  The funny thing is that the same 3 or 4 people "win" the contest every year.  Then, I publish a photo book of the NWR and offer to give the NWR book store copies at cost to help them raise money, and after following up about 5 times, they finally say that it's "not suited for their demographic" and then I realize the "photo club" runs the book store, too. 

When you cross a "club" with "social" media, I guess this is the unfortunate result.

jdramirez

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Re: So I really stepped into it....
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2014, 08:11:14 AM »
I'm going to need a young priest and an old priest to exercise these demons that occupy space in my photos. 

The worst part of it is that Shipwreck hasn't been played with in about five years... And he asks how his photos went and I just don't have the heart to tell him...
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jdramirez

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Re: So I really stepped into it....
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2014, 10:13:20 AM »
If this all happened on Facebook, I'd just completely forget it. I think your demonstration images with the figurine were excellent and very explanatory. The advice you gave was solid. The problem with people these days is more often than not, they already think they are experts at whatever it is they think they are experts at...when they ask for advice, they aren't looking for advice...they are simply looking for someone to reinforce their already-formulated and overly inflated opinion of themselves and their skill. I think you got sucked into one of those inverted vortices where yes means no and "Help me" really means "Assert my own opinion of myself...verify me, so I can feel good!"

Bleh. Facebook. BARF.

I'm my own biggest critic.  I know when, why, and how badly I screw up.  The wife usually says not to worry about it... but I take the error so much to heart that I'll never forget that circumstance.  Learn from your mistakes... And as with all things photo related, only show the good images. 

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RustyTheGeek

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Re: So I really stepped into it....
« Reply #26 on: May 09, 2014, 12:01:48 AM »
Sounds like you are trying to achieve the impossible... get accepted into the "cool kids club" in Junior High.   8)

From what I've read here so far, you should just bow out gracefully and forget they ever existed.  They are legends in their own minds.  You stand to gain very little from that association and they don't appreciate your input anyway.   :)

Whenever I join something like this, I never want to be the smartest guy, in fact I want to be just a few steps above the dumbest guy.  That way I will be able to learn a lot from others.  In your case, you are so far ahead of the others that you'll never learn anything and they obviously don't want to learn from you.  So, no point in staying with that club, eh?

Oh, and thanks for sharing!!  It helps remind us of the pitfalls of some situations like this.   ::)
« Last Edit: May 09, 2014, 12:05:40 AM by RustyTheGeek »
Yes, but what would  surapon  say ??  :D

jdramirez

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Re: So I really stepped into it....
« Reply #27 on: May 09, 2014, 12:15:13 AM »
Sounds like you are trying to achieve the impossible... get accepted into the "cool kids club" in Junior High.   8)

From what I've read here so far, you should just bow out gracefully and forget they ever existed.  They are legends in their own minds.  You stand to gain very little from that association and they don't appreciate your input anyway.   :)

Whenever I join something like this, I never want to be the smartest guy, in fact I want to be just a few steps above the dumbest guy.  That way I will be able to learn a lot from others.  In your case, you are so far ahead of the others that you'll never learn anything and they obviously don't want to learn from you.  So, no point in staying with that club, eh?

Oh, and thanks for sharing!!  It helps remind us of the pitfalls of some situations like this.   ::)

I think my issue with the group is I was never WOWED by what they shared... so I didn't... I don't way to say respect... because that is wrong... but I didn't defer to them the way they would expect me to.  And I don't really share that many images because they are mostly of my kids or other people's kids (portraiture/action/sports)... so they didn't have any reason to hold me in high regard... So there's that.

I'm going to let the smoke blow over... I'm going to be snarky which is my default mode anyway... and then I'm going to excuse myself... without much fanfare. 

Like you... I really like not being the smartest person in the room... though at times it feels as though I'm looking for my bachelor's while the people talking are working on the 3rd phd... which is fine... but maybe I get lost in the translation to undergrad speak. 

And thanks for listening... it is good to vent.
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Re: So I really stepped into it....
« Reply #27 on: May 09, 2014, 12:15:13 AM »

Menace

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Re: So I really stepped into it....
« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2014, 01:17:29 AM »

Like you... I really like not being the smartest person in the room... though at times it feels as though I'm looking for my bachelor's while the people talking are working on the 3rd phd... which is fine... but maybe I get lost in the translation to undergrad speak. 


Remember just cos someone has a lot to say on a specific matter (photography in this instance) it doesn't make them an expert in reality.  I tend to stay away from any 'know it all' photographers cos they are unable to be objective.
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mackguyver

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Re: So I really stepped into it....
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2014, 12:48:26 PM »

Like you... I really like not being the smartest person in the room... though at times it feels as though I'm looking for my bachelor's while the people talking are working on the 3rd phd... which is fine... but maybe I get lost in the translation to undergrad speak. 

Remember just cos someone has a lot to say on a specific matter (photography in this instance) it doesn't make them an expert in reality.  I tend to stay away from any 'know it all' photographers cos they are unable to be objective.
You better stay away from me, then because I know everything, and I've decided to change my username to "Omniscient".

Then again, I might be kidding ;D

I try to pass along my knowledge, but try not to shove anything down people's throats and hopefully I'm successful, but some people just like to talk $h!t to make themselves feel important.

Also, I saw this on FStoppers today and thought of this thread:
Things You MUST Know About Groups on Facebook

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Re: So I really stepped into it....
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2014, 12:48:26 PM »