July 29, 2014, 04:05:14 PM

Author Topic: Tilt & Shift Fan?  (Read 1748 times)

mackguyver

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Re: Tilt & Shift Fan?
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2014, 03:52:13 PM »
One more thought on the TS-E 17 - the lens cap is awesome!  It's so much better than the 14L II that I had.  I put the 17 and 24 on the 1D X & 5DIII last night for comparison and they are far more alike than different, but the test will come when I shoot with them both this weekend.  I'll post some shots...

Just a comment on your pictures you posted: it is natural to have converging lines in perspective; it's how we see things as they get further away. I can still remember my art teacher showing me this at my first school ! Correcting this fully in shift gives a very unnatural image that isn't actually correct.
Sporgon, you're right, and I guess I wasn't clear in my post - these were meant to be examples of when I was limited by the 24mm focal length and are poor photos because they were done when I was just fooling around with the gear walking around or on vacation.  My paid shots are done with far more care and I I tend to correct fully and then back off just a bit to avoid the unnatural look.  I also avoid shooting straight on from unflattering angles like this, but I appreciate the feedback.
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Re: Tilt & Shift Fan?
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2014, 03:52:13 PM »

dstppy

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Re: Tilt & Shift Fan?
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2014, 04:23:01 PM »
Time & Sales?

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Gets my arbitrage on!

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Sporgon

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Re: Tilt & Shift Fan?
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2014, 04:43:08 PM »
Sporgon, you're right, and I guess I wasn't clear in my post - these were meant to be examples of when I was limited by the 24mm focal length and are poor photos because they were done when I was just fooling around with the gear walking around or on vacation.  My paid shots are done with far more care and I I tend to correct fully and then back off just a bit to avoid the unnatural look.  I also avoid shooting straight on from unflattering angles like this, but I appreciate the feedback.

I could see they were just snaps, but I do see quite a few shots by others that are over corrected in shift; it's a pet hate of mine !

mackguyver

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Re: Tilt & Shift Fan?
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2014, 04:53:43 PM »
Sporgon, you're right, and I guess I wasn't clear in my post - these were meant to be examples of when I was limited by the 24mm focal length and are poor photos because they were done when I was just fooling around with the gear walking around or on vacation.  My paid shots are done with far more care and I I tend to correct fully and then back off just a bit to avoid the unnatural look.  I also avoid shooting straight on from unflattering angles like this, but I appreciate the feedback.

I could see they were just snaps, but I do see quite a few shots by others that are over corrected in shift; it's a pet hate of mine !
I can understand and what I hate are the ones where the top of the building is larger than the bottom :o
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tolusina

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Re: Tilt & Shift Fan?
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2014, 05:18:22 PM »
........ I do see quite a few shots by others that are over corrected in shift; it's a pet hate of mine !

 
...
I can understand and what I hate are the ones where the top of the building is larger than the bottom :o

I agree 100% with both of you, the look is so unnatural, my brain just knows it's wrong.
 
However, here's an example, I could never figure why it got printed or displayed, or even why the photographer shot it this way, he certainly knew exactly what he was doing, why he shot that way and what the print would look like.
From the first time I saw this photo, I did not get "IT", I still don't.

 



Photo credit, hot linked from

 
 
 

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mackguyver

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Re: Tilt & Shift Fan?
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2014, 10:13:39 AM »
I agree 100% with both of you, the look is so unnatural, my brain just knows it's wrong.
 
However, here's an example, I could never figure why it got printed or displayed, or even why the photographer shot it this way, he certainly knew exactly what he was doing, why he shot that way and what the print would look like.
From the first time I saw this photo, I did not get "IT", I still don't.
Is there any chance that the structure itself is bigger at the top than the bottom?  If you look at the building in the background and the windows, they don't look distorted.  Either that or maybe I just need some more coffee to wake up this morning...
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tolusina

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Re: Tilt & Shift Fan?
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2014, 10:49:12 AM »
......Is there any chance that the structure itself is bigger at the top than the bottom?  If you look at the building in the background and the windows, they don't look distorted.  Either that or maybe I just need some more coffee to wake up this morning...
You are definitely maybe right.
Looking at the photo now, it doesn't look as whack as I thought it did when I first saw it years back.
I just put on screen rulers on the photo, as you pointed out, the building in the back ground is square, also, the light poles are vertical.
The horizontal ruler finds oddness in the lower support part of the tower, it's twisted. Upper slats are low on the left, lower slats are low on the right.
The tower was in San Francisco, many things have always been 'different' there. Maybe it was built that way intentionally, reverse taper on top, corkscrew twist on the bottom?
---
This photo is one of those I haven't been able to un-see. I suppose that makes it memorable and is memorable by itself one of the marks of a good photo?
 
 
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Re: Tilt & Shift Fan?
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2014, 10:49:12 AM »

mackguyver

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Re: Tilt & Shift Fan?
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2014, 11:45:32 AM »
This photo is one of those I haven't been able to un-see. I suppose that makes it memorable and is memorable by itself one of the marks of a good photo?

I think that you might finally have been able to define "art" for me, seriously.  I think that is what separates art from everything else, and having had some bad experiences with the local art scene, it's refreshing to think about it differently.  As for the photo, I wonder if it's some kind of water collection/storage structure and that's why it's a slight conical shape.

Also, here's an oldie but goodie about T/S lenses, and a funny quote from it (emphasis mine):
"For those new to camera movements; my opinion is to never correct converging verticals into perfect parallels. It is the best way to make a building look as if it will fall on top of you and one of my long-time pet hates in architectural photography. I almost always leave a little convergence. After all, it is a normal visual phenomenon!"

Focusing the Tilt-Shift Lens
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Sporgon

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Re: Tilt & Shift Fan?
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2014, 11:48:17 AM »
I agree 100% with both of you, the look is so unnatural, my brain just knows it's wrong.
 
However, here's an example, I could never figure why it got printed or displayed, or even why the photographer shot it this way, he certainly knew exactly what he was doing, why he shot that way and what the print would look like.
From the first time I saw this photo, I did not get "IT", I still don't.
Is there any chance that the structure itself is bigger at the top than the bottom?  If you look at the building in the background and the windows, they don't look distorted.  Either that or maybe I just need some more coffee to wake up this morning...

That was my thought when I first saw this picture. I assume this is a large water tower for the glasshouses, and it looks like it may be a form of 'clinker' build; that is where the ascending planks overlap slightly on the outside of those below- so it gets wider as it goes higher. Same thing happens when a boat is 'clinker' built.

tolusina

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Re: Tilt & Shift Fan?
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2014, 02:14:11 PM »
.....I think that you might finally have been able to define "art" for me, seriously.  I think that is what separates art from everything else, and having had some bad experiences with the local art scene, it's refreshing to think about it differently.  As for the photo, I wonder if it's some kind of water collection/storage structure and that's why it's a slight conical shape.....
Delighted to have been of such service,  :D

The artist who created the work above is the one who pretty well defined photography for me, I strive to adhere to his philosophy, doubt I'll ever even begin to approach his skill, knowledge, talent or contacts.
..... I assume this is a large water tower for the glasshouses, and it looks like it may be a form of 'clinker' build; that is where the ascending planks overlap slightly on the outside of those below- so it gets wider as it goes higher. Same thing happens when a boat is 'clinker' built.
Sounds good to me.
Have you got any idea why the base of the tower has a twist to it? I didn't see the twist until today as I dragged a horizontal screen ruler across the photo, looking for irregularities.
 
 
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mackguyver

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Re: Tilt & Shift Fan?
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2014, 02:43:49 PM »
The artist who created the work above is the one who pretty well defined photography for me, I strive to adhere to his philosophy, doubt I'll ever even begin to approach his skill, knowledge, talent or contacts.
Ansel is one of the greats for sure!  My wife bought several of his books for me last year as gifts and I'm astounded by his eye (even at a very young age) and his ability to take some of the simplest scenes and make them masterpieces.  His work has so much more depth than the commonly seen photos from Yosemite and the like and this is a great example of that.

Sounds good to me.
Have you got any idea why the base of the tower has a twist to it? I didn't see the twist until today as I dragged a horizontal screen ruler across the photo, looking for irregularities.
Are you talking about the bottom left of the frame where the greenhouse structure's foundation isn't straight across?  If so, I think that's actually sloping down the hill, not twisting.
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tolusina

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Re: Tilt & Shift Fan?
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2014, 03:30:14 PM »
....Are you talking about the bottom left of the frame where the greenhouse structure's foundation isn't straight across?  If so, I think that's actually sloping down the hill, not twisting....
No, nope. I see the slope downhill to the left, that's not the twisty bit I'm seeing.
The water tower itself, the top, water reservoir is an inverted, truncated cone.
The faces of the base below are trapezoidal.
On the camera facing side of the base, the horizontal slats slope downward slightly to the left at the top, they are horizontal in the middle, they slope downward to the right at the bottom. It makes the camera facing side appear to have a twist.
Looking at the side facing right, I'm not at all sure there's a twist there though there might be. All the horizontals on that side look like they'd converge in the distance if they were extended.
 
Can you see the twist?
 
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mackguyver

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Re: Tilt & Shift Fan?
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2014, 03:50:51 PM »
....Are you talking about the bottom left of the frame where the greenhouse structure's foundation isn't straight across?  If so, I think that's actually sloping down the hill, not twisting....
No, nope. I see the slope downhill to the left, that's not the twisty bit I'm seeing.
The water tower itself, the top, water reservoir is an inverted, truncated cone.
The faces of the base below are trapezoidal.
On the camera facing side of the base, the horizontal slats slope downward slightly to the left at the top, they are horizontal in the middle, they slope downward to the right at the bottom. It makes the camera facing side appear to have a twist.
Looking at the side facing right, I'm not at all sure there's a twist there though there might be. All the horizontals on that side look like they'd converge in the distance if they were extended.
 
Can you see the twist?
 
.
Okay, I saw that, too, and fear we're headed down a path to madness that ends with us traveling to S.F. to looks for the building ;). I looked long and hard at it (again) and the width of the side panel of the base appears to be uniform and given the camera position, I think the slats are following the correct perspective in terms of converging to the vanishing point.  Note the slat that aligns with the lower edge of the roof of the greenhouse on the bottom right and slats that match the angle of the roof line at the top of the greenhouse as well.
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Re: Tilt & Shift Fan?
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2014, 03:50:51 PM »

sagittariansrock

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Re: Tilt & Shift Fan?
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2014, 01:45:59 AM »
Time & Sales?

Love me my deep-book.

Gets my arbitrage on!

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Re: Tilt & Shift Fan?
« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2014, 02:01:13 PM »
Okay, I saw that, too, and fear we're headed down a path to madness that ends with us traveling to S.F. to looks for the building ;). I looked long and hard at it (again) and the width of the side panel of the base appears to be uniform and given the camera position, I think the slats are following the correct perspective in terms of converging to the vanishing point.  Note the slat that aligns with the lower edge of the roof of the greenhouse on the bottom right and slats that match the angle of the roof line at the top of the greenhouse as well.

If that's the water tower I'm thinking of, it's on one of the roads out to one of the public beaches south of Santa Cruz.  Strangest looking thing you ever saw.  But it might not be.  I'd imagine there are lots of water towers like that, and I honestly don't recall whether the one I'm thinking of is attached to a building or not.  :)

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Re: Tilt & Shift Fan?
« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2014, 02:01:13 PM »