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Author Topic: New Canon Tilt-Shift Lenses at Photokina [CR1]  (Read 4980 times)

jrista

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Re: New Canon Tilt-Shift Lenses at Photokina [CR1]
« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2014, 11:41:44 AM »
a) I absolutely do believe a TS Macro lens would allow me to get the whole head in focus.

b) It doesn't matter the degree of the additional capabilities. Having them at all, limited or extremely capable, is better than NOT having them. That's all my argument is.


Your letter argument b) is certainly valid. However, having worked with various medium- and large-Format Macro-lenses tilted on FF, including the 80mm Apo-Rodagon allowing for 20 degree tilt, I can assure you tilting would have caused very little gain of DOF with the Fly's head. You are making wrong assumtions. Even tilted to 20 degrees, you would not be able to bring the focal plane parallel with the front of the head. And if you did, not even f32 would allow you to have both the front and the back of the head in focus. Tilting is of relatively little effect in the Macro range, DOF when stopping down remains limited as always. Lets just say: You might be able to slightly rearrange what is NOT in focus, but you will hardly create visibly more DOF.  But even for isolating at open aperture, Tilting in the macro-range has probably much less effect than you might assume.

As was said before, tilting is great for product photography, especially of flat subjects. SD-Cards, Cigarette-Packs etc. It can also help photographing large dragonflys or Camera-lens-combinations front-sideways with max. DOF in a single shot (no stacking). But it will not help DOF in the shot you posted. I will not post examples. I am through with that matter. Please trust my evaluation.

If you definately need this extra bit of freedom, even though it is not very often of practical use and will be a bit clumsy in the outdoors (though leight-weight), I can recommend the APO-Rodagon 80mm with the Zörk-joint (see Zörk Munich). Personally, because I agree with your latter argument b), I am using the Pentax 67 100mm Macro with a tilt adapter allowing for 10 degrees of tilt. But I hardly ever waste time tilting with subjects as close as your fly. For me it is mainly a way of having two lenses in one (regular 100mm Tilt plus a regular Macro). In addition, it has the abilty to shift or to be used with digital medium-format. The APO-Rodagon I will only take along when I know I will have plain+little subjects to photograph that need perfection. I will always use it at f11 to 16 then, after that, diffraction becomes too visible. As far as flies' heads are concerned, fumbling with tilting will only wear down the animal's tolerance.

Your up-front refusal to provide any evidence to back up your claims only gives me immediate cause to doubt you. So sorry, but I cannot trust your evaluation. There is no reason to trust your evaluation. You can't simply say "I'm 'through' with backing up my assertions with evidence." and expect that to win you any awards. :P

Again, the point is not to get the fly's head from front to back within the DOF. The back side of the head is immaterial, you can't see it anyway. All that matters is that you change the focal plane such that it aligns with, or at least aligns BETTER with, the primary angle of the key part of your subject that you want in focus. Aligning your focal plane at all is an improvement, and gives you more freedom to possibly reduce your DOF and gain back some of the resolution lost to a super narrow aperture.

In the case of my fly, which BTW was shot hand-held at f/5.6 with a mere 1/100th second shutter, that means angling the plane closer on the right to farther on the left, and with a certain amount of rotation such that it also angles across the top part of the fly's head. Stop down a bit more, say to f/11, drop the camera onto a tripod/focusing rail, and I absolutely have no doubt that even the SLIGHT movements allowed by a current Canon TS lens would allow me to maximize my use of DOF to improve the amount of my fly's head that was in focus, without necessitating stopping down to the minimum aperture.

If Canon's new line of TS lenses offer greater freedom in the adjustments they offer, it doesn't matter if a 20° movement in macro space isn't as good as the same movement for landscapes. It's still better to have the option of tilt than not. It will give you some degree of control over adjusting your focal plane around your subject. It does not magically increase your DOF, of course not. However it lets you control your focal plane such that more of your DOF envelops more of your subject without forcing you to lose resolution to more diffraction by stopping down to obscene levels.
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Re: New Canon Tilt-Shift Lenses at Photokina [CR1]
« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2014, 11:41:44 AM »

SoullessPolack

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Re: New Canon Tilt-Shift Lenses at Photokina [CR1]
« Reply #31 on: May 10, 2014, 01:52:32 PM »
a) I absolutely do believe a TS Macro lens would allow me to get the whole head in focus.

b) It doesn't matter the degree of the additional capabilities. Having them at all, limited or extremely capable, is better than NOT having them. That's all my argument is.


Your letter argument b) is certainly valid. However, having worked with various medium- and large-Format Macro-lenses tilted on FF, including the 80mm Apo-Rodagon allowing for 20 degree tilt, I can assure you tilting would have caused very little gain of DOF with the Fly's head. You are making wrong assumtions. Even tilted to 20 degrees, you would not be able to bring the focal plane parallel with the front of the head. And if you did, not even f32 would allow you to have both the front and the back of the head in focus. Tilting is of relatively little effect in the Macro range, DOF when stopping down remains limited as always. Lets just say: You might be able to slightly rearrange what is NOT in focus, but you will hardly create visibly more DOF.  But even for isolating at open aperture, Tilting in the macro-range has probably much less effect than you might assume.

As was said before, tilting is great for product photography, especially of flat subjects. SD-Cards, Cigarette-Packs etc. It can also help photographing large dragonflys or Camera-lens-combinations front-sideways with max. DOF in a single shot (no stacking). But it will not help DOF in the shot you posted. I will not post examples. I am through with that matter. Please trust my evaluation.

If you definately need this extra bit of freedom, even though it is not very often of practical use and will be a bit clumsy in the outdoors (though leight-weight), I can recommend the APO-Rodagon 80mm with the Zörk-joint (see Zörk Munich). Personally, because I agree with your latter argument b), I am using the Pentax 67 100mm Macro with a tilt adapter allowing for 10 degrees of tilt. But I hardly ever waste time tilting with subjects as close as your fly. For me it is mainly a way of having two lenses in one (regular 100mm Tilt plus a regular Macro). In addition, it has the abilty to shift or to be used with digital medium-format. The APO-Rodagon I will only take along when I know I will have plain+little subjects to photograph that need perfection. I will always use it at f11 to 16 then, after that, diffraction becomes too visible. As far as flies' heads are concerned, fumbling with tilting will only wear down the animal's tolerance.

Why would you post a long, drawn out response, yet refuse to provide any evidence?  It's certainly not for time's sake, because you rambled on and on. 

As jrista stated, and as is painfully obvious to someone with common sense, having tilt would be massively beneficial.  It would not be a panacea to the DOF problem in macro, but it would be a step in that direction, and having some ability to alter the plane of focus is better than having no ability. 

Right now your argument sounds akin to those who deride ISO 409200 being in cameras, when it is always better to have the option to even take a photograph than to not take one.

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Re: New Canon Tilt-Shift Lenses at Photokina [CR1]
« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2014, 03:27:57 PM »
If you look at the Scheimpflug principle, you see that the distance ratio lens to sensor/film plane vs. lens to subject plane is an important factor how much tilting you actually need. If the lens is much closer to your sensor/film than to the subject, a few degrees tilt may put some planar subject matter into focus that is 45 or more degrees off. Typical examples are landscape images which are tack sharp from front to back: although the surface is 90° off the sensor/film plane, relatively small lens movements are all that is needed.

In the case of macro, your lens may be closer to your sensor/film plane than to your subject, and you need much more tilt capability to put some subject into focus that is not parallel to your sensor/film plane. 8° tilt, as afforded by current Canon T&S line up may compensate for not much over 20° subject plane tilt, and that is not all that much. jrista provided an example where 8° tilt may or may not have helped, whereas fussi III seems to speak from experience where 20° tilt was too little to be helpful.

Ask yourself, how many times your subject plane is less than 15° off your sensor/film plane, and whether that kind of subject matter would allow you to play with lens movements.

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Re: New Canon Tilt-Shift Lenses at Photokina [CR1]
« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2014, 04:01:21 PM »
First of all: Let me thank you for mentioning the back of the head is not in need of being in focus. ;)

I was referring to the visible part of the front and back respectively, speaking anatomically.

With my refusal I only meant to say I am not inclined to run yet another test series of tilted macros just so to be able to post the outcome and win anyone's "award". I did my testing, I am good. I never did feel any need to proove my point to you. But I thought you might be smart enough to tell between the lines, that there is a likelihood my experience to be better funded than your assumptions.

Your theorie is right, but the effect and possible benefit of tilting is so little at this distance (and with a three dimensional subject), that it approaches negligible.

Yes, you will be able to make the focal plain say more level with the right eye-portion of the fly (minimally, 4 degrees of tilt might be right for that). But the DOF will remain to be so shallow that you will find yourself stopping down to an f-stop where you will hardly see any difference to the untilted version.  And you will still have difraction. After all, this head isn't much less three-dimensional than a ball. Where do you want to slice it?

I recommend: Learn by doing if you have to. I promise you will not be tilting in practice with that kind of shot unless you feel the desire to proove yourself pixelpeepingly right and win an award for fiercest and lenghty contributions yourself. Noone benefitting from that.

I wasn't saying that making a macro TS-E is useless. I'd probably buy it if it is near as sharp at infinity. And I will also like its versatility. I will not use it for extreme close-ups of insects though.

+1

For me a macro TS-E would be of most use as it would be tuned for close focusing rather than infinity which normally means better/less less aberrations at closer distances and a large image circle when focused closer rather than normal lenses that are largest at infinity. As a macro lens I believe from all my experience with the 90mm TS-E and extension tubes that the movements would be of little use but as a table top product shots lens I'd buy it straight away.

jrista

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Re: New Canon Tilt-Shift Lenses at Photokina [CR1]
« Reply #34 on: May 10, 2014, 05:31:22 PM »
Your up-front refusal to provide any evidence to back up your claims only gives me immediate cause to doubt you. So sorry, but I cannot trust your evaluation. There is no reason to trust your evaluation. You can't simply say "I'm 'through' with backing up my assertions with evidence." and expect that to win you any awards.
...
 The back side of the head is immaterial, you can't see it anyway


First of all: Let me thank you for mentioning the back of the head is not in need of being in focus. ;)

I was referring to the visible part of the front and back respectively, speaking anatomically.

With my refusal I only meant to say I am not inclined to run yet another test series of tilted macros just so to be able to post the outcome and win anyone's "award". I did my testing, I am good. I never did feel any need to proove my point to you. But I thought you might be smart enough to tell between the lines, that there is a likelihood my experience to be better funded than your assumptions.


Let me be clearer then. What experience? What better funding? You've provided zero evidence to support your claims that you have more experience or have better funded your equipment. By refusing to supply any evidence of any kind, because you feel no need to prove your point, makes me question your points all the more. You have given no one here ANY reason to trust that you have more experience of have higher quality, more expensive equipment that would allow you to prove the point anyway.

Perhaps you do have more experience, perhaps your a TS lens collector and you've spent tens of thousands of dollars buying all of the ones available on the market. Why should I believe that? It's just your naked word, a word you've already stated you have no intention of backing up with any evidence. An up-front insistence that you aren't interested in proving your points, when proving your point with actual evidence would easily give me cause to reevaluate my own, eliminates any reason for me, or for that matter anyone else, to trust anything you say.

Just to be clear about WHY I don't trust your word. If you hadn't preemptively stated you refuse to provide any evidence of any kind to back up your claims (which still fundamentally miss the point I'm trying to make), I wouldn't be so insistent about my reasons for not trusting you...I wouldn't have a clearly and well defined reason NOT to trust you, and quite possibly the opposite. Only those who are afraid their own assertions may not be valid are willing to state ahead of time that evidence doesn't matter. :P

Your theorie is right, but the effect and possible benefit of tilting is so little at this distance (and with a three dimensional subject), that it approaches negligible.


Based on what theory? Your own personal anecdotal "experience"? Or can you lay down the math for me, and for everyone else, to prove the point? How negligible? Were talking about a few millimeters of DOF here...a few degrees of tilt could have a significant impact on how that few millimeters envelops your subject. It doesn't have to be significant, because were talking about insignificant distances and sizes in the first place.

Yes, you will be able to make the focal plain say more level with the right eye-portion of the fly (minimally, 4 degrees of tilt might be right for that). But the DOF will remain to be so shallow that you will find yourself stopping down to an f-stop where you will hardly see any difference to the untilted version.  And you will still have difraction. After all, this head isn't much less three-dimensional than a ball. Where do you want to slice it?


I don't need to make the DOF deeper. I just need to change the relationship of DOF to my subject. A few degrees of tilt WILL do that. I think everyone is thinking I just want to create a giant wedge like you do with landscape photography, to make everything from the foreground to infinity "in focus". That's NOT what I am talking about. The DOF doesn't need to be "infinitely" thick. It just needs to be reoriented to conform to the orientation of the subject, that's it. As for where to slice...well, perhaps a picture:



Details in the image. Everything is to scale. I calculated G based on f (Scheimpflug Principal), which is assumed to be 100mm. Tilt angle of the lens is 8°. All other terms were derived from G and f, and everything is to scale assuming 1 pixel represents two millimeters. Subject distance is 10" (254mm). For a 20mm ball (i.e. fly head), the effective gain in focus on the top of the ball is about 6mm farther back. You also lose about the same 6mm forward on the bottom of the ball. The loss of focus on the bottom of the ball/fly head doesn't matter, because it cannot be seen (it's underneath, given the position of the sensor/vantage point of the viewer.)

So, 6mm. That isn't much. It's quite trivial. Unless your subject is a freakin fly! :P Now, if I had a full 20° of tilt in the lens, instead of just a mere 8°, the actual change in the plane of focus on the subject would be even more significant, despite still being in terms of mere millimeters.
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Re: New Canon Tilt-Shift Lenses at Photokina [CR1]
« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2014, 05:50:51 PM »
That calculation is for a simple lens, any 135 format macro T/S is not going to be a simple lens, just look at the reverse tilt needed when using the current T/S's to see that. It also assumes infinity focus, mainly because Scheimpflug was primarily interested in battlefields from a balloon, about as removed from a fly's head as you could get, read the booklet I linked to earlier for the more complicated equations on focusing a view camera for an accurate estimation that takes lens focus distance into account.

Personally, the way I read the thread, every person who has or claims to own a T/S lens has said the same thing, tilt/swing is not a particularly useful feature to have in a dedicated macro lens other than for some product photography; on the other hand, those who are counting on theories and personal feelings think it will.


« Last Edit: May 10, 2014, 06:15:03 PM by privatebydesign »
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privatebydesign

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Re: New Canon Tilt-Shift Lenses at Photokina [CR1]
« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2014, 06:18:12 PM »
I think everyone is thinking I just want to create a giant wedge like you do with landscape photography, to make everything from the foreground to infinity "in focus". That's NOT what I am talking about. The DOF doesn't need to be "infinitely" thick.

That so isn't how tilt works, but, whatever.
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Re: New Canon Tilt-Shift Lenses at Photokina [CR1]
« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2014, 06:18:12 PM »

jrista

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Re: New Canon Tilt-Shift Lenses at Photokina [CR1]
« Reply #37 on: May 10, 2014, 06:57:36 PM »
I think everyone is thinking I just want to create a giant wedge like you do with landscape photography, to make everything from the foreground to infinity "in focus". That's NOT what I am talking about. The DOF doesn't need to be "infinitely" thick.

That so isn't how tilt works, but, whatever.

First, there is a reason I put the term "infinitely" in quotes. When you tilt a TS lens down, you make the focal plane angle from below the lens outwards and away. The depth of field is narrower at the point where the focal plane meets the lens and image planes, and becomes increasingly wide the farther out you go. It isn't infinite (unless you follow the focal plane for infinity), but it DOES allow you to reduce your aperture and still keep your entire field in acceptably sharp focus. Indeed, you will generally be doing landscape photography like this at hyperfocal distance. But it is how tilt works.

From Wikipedia:

Quote
The DoF is zero at the apex, remains shallow at the edge of the lens’s field of view, and increases with distance from the camera.

As for all the rest, I know you love to ignore theory as if it has absolutely no bearing on anything in reality. That's your choice.

Still, I don't need to increase my DOF like tilt does for distant landscapes. All I need to do is tilt the focal plane around close up subjects so that the focal plane and DOF are better oriented relative to the subject. The change in focus doesn't need to be significant, a fraction of a millimeter change in the focal plane around a close up macro subject would produce a visible change in focus. Even if I can't get a full 20° of tilt at the focal plane out of a complex multi-element TS lens, it's still an improvement over not having tilt at all. Mere millimeters change in the focal plane are all that matter for macro.

Oh, and BTW, given that a specially built tilt/shift macro lens has not actually ever been built for 35mm format, NO ONE here actually has any first-hand experience with it. The theory is the only thing we have.
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jrista

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Re: New Canon Tilt-Shift Lenses at Photokina [CR1]
« Reply #38 on: May 10, 2014, 07:35:23 PM »
Here are some actual T/S products for specifically marketed for macro photographers:

http://www.novoflex.com/en/products/macro-accessories/bellows-systems/tilt-shift-bellows/
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CONTAX-C-Y-MICRO-MACRO-BELLOWS-EXTENSION-TILT-SHIFT-/380895790528?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item58af2885c0
http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/reviews/eos_macro_tilt_adapter.html

If T/S was so useless for macro, and is incapable of producing any kind of visible improvement in actual use, why would anyone invest money designing and developing T/S bellows or adapters?

LensBaby also offers a macro adapter for all their optics, and it works with all of their T/S optics:

http://store.lensbaby.com/products/macro-converters/

This is actually probably one of the most viable T/S macro products for Canon cameras on the market right now. I forgot all about LensBaby, but this stuff isn't even new. I was looking at their Composer Pro and macro converter years ago when I still had my 450D. If Canon doesn't make a T/S Macro, I'll probably put the LensBaby  stuff back on my list.
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jrista

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Re: New Canon Tilt-Shift Lenses at Photokina [CR1]
« Reply #39 on: May 10, 2014, 08:33:43 PM »
I don't need to make the DOF deeper. I just need to change the relationship of DOF to my subject.


Initially you stated you were sure that you could get the whole head into focus by tilting. I felt free to assure you that was a wrong assumption, based on my experience. What was wrong with that?

Now you are practically stating DOF is not relevant for the purpose of getting the whole head into focus. But how can it not be with a threedimensional subject? So you were talking about a piece of confetti all along? Well, granted, TS-Macro helps with confetti.

I still do not think that a forum like this is about prooving each other right or wrong by going to the book-shelf. It can also be about listening to what other people have to say. Not everybody is raising their words only to be in the center of attention. Some want to keep others from going wrong when they see it coming.

You are only discouraging people with aquired knowledge to participate here. But your muzzles are inflated and full of air.


I will never understand why anyone has to get directly personal over these topics. I have not insulted you in any way, nor am I simply interested in "being right".

You demanded I simply trust your words at face value, and preemptively flat-out stated that you were not going to back up any of your claims (which for me, personally, comes off as one of two ways...either extremely arrogant and haughty, or as an indication that the other party doesn't necessarily trust their own position), claims which were supposedly steeped in a vastly superior base of experience (how you could know that, given that you don't know anything about me, given this is the first time we've ever encountered each other, is curious.) I explained, perhaps directly but otherwise without insult, why I could not simply take you at your word like that. Simply an honest but plain and direct explanation of my stance. Your getting a whole lot more personal and insulting here, and THAT is the only thing on these forums that TRULY does no one any good. We've had far too many threads destroyed by people like you getting personal like this. I don't really care what you think of me, but there are other people on these forums who don't like threads going way off the tracks by people flinging insults back and forth.

I'm not going to exchange insults with you.

Here is another image. Maybe this will replace a thousand words and all my "hot air":



Crappy, crude, but hopefully effective example of focal plane, DOF, and a "fly head". Maybe DOF increases, slightly, as there would be a very slight wedge. But that isn't really what I'm after. I lose DOF along the bottom of the fly eye and head, but I gain a small amount at the top of the head. It doesn't have to be a lot. It can be just a couple millimeters...that's all I'd need to push the focus falloff far enough to the back of the fly's head to matter. Add in some rotation (or swing), and I could reorient the focal plane and wedge to bring more of the fly eye in focus. Since the fly's head is round, I can afford to lose some DOF at the back right area where the head turns into the mandible (it's just empty air there).

How much actual lens tilt would be necessary to get this much focal plane tilt for a subject less than a foot from my sensor? I dunno. I haven't actually engineered such a lens myself. I've found a number of T/S Macro Bellows now that claim to have 15° of tilt. Some of these products are fairly pricey, $200-300 (just for a bellows, we aren't talking about any amount of optics here), so I am at least willing to suspect that 15° of tilt is enough to be useful for subjects very close to the lens, given these things are marketed explicitly as "macro tilt and shift bellows."

Anyway, I have no interest in proving right or wrong with you. Just being clear about what I'm trying to say. I haven't felt anyone has even understood what I'm trying to say, all I've gotten is direct counterarguments based on mistaken assumptions based on what you guys think I'm saying.

I disagree with you. You clearly disagree with me. We can exist happily in a state of disagreement without insulting each other, or demanding that either of us trust each other just on our word alone. For anonymous people on the internet, someone's word is worthless. However, at least I've tried to back up my claims with some evidence. At least I've tried to make my original point, what my ultimate goals would be if I had a specially designed TS Macro lens from Canon, clear. I believe T/S movements are beneficial for non-flat, non-product macro photography, such as insects. I don't expect to see some ridiculous improvement that would allow me to shoot at f/2.8, but maybe I can drop down to f/11 or f/16 from f/32 or f/45, and use tilt and maybe some shift to make better use of my focal plane, and envelop more of the interesting part of my subject within the DoF. I mean, that's what T/S is all about...changing your focal plane, which in turn changes what part of your subject falls within the depth of field, without moving the sensor.

I know that on my 7D, I can get pretty sharp results up to f/20 despite the fact that is a diffraction-limited aperture. Beyond f/20, the effects of diffraction (even in macro situations), really start to kick in and hurt my detail. By f/32, things are usually unacceptably soft. And, just to finish off the point. So what if I still have to shoot at f/22, even with tilt and shift? I've shot other macro subjects as narrow as f/22 before, and there is still usually a considerable amount of focus falloff. Even a small amount of tilt would be enough to MAXIMIZE the amount of my subject that is near the focal plane and within the DoF. Maximize doesn't necessarily mean entirely eliminating all focus falloff everywhere....it just means moving those points of falloff around such that more of your subject is sharp for the SAME or SIMILAR DOF. DOF doesn't have to get huge, or even larger...changing the angle of the focal plane is really all that I'd really need.
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Re: New Canon Tilt-Shift Lenses at Photokina [CR1]
« Reply #40 on: May 10, 2014, 10:23:36 PM »
Everybody knows what you are trying to say, everybody with experience is saying it doesn't work as well as you think.

Despite you saying I ignore the theory, you are the one that is, you cannot ignore the fact that your calculations are for a simple lens, and any macro t/s is not going to be a simple lens, but more importantly, you are ignoring a gigantic variable, focus distance, your calculations  only work for a simple lens with focus at infinity, not the normal focus distance for macro shooting. Your calculations are off by several orders of magnitude.

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Re: New Canon Tilt-Shift Lenses at Photokina [CR1]
« Reply #41 on: May 10, 2014, 10:44:56 PM »
Here is an actual example of tilt at macro distances and scales:



Your getting a whole lot more personal and insulting here.


Perhaps. Ignorance paired with loudness makes me aggressive at times.

Further, I am decidedly not an anonymous computer and prefer not to be treated as such. I took you by your words and they demanded retribution with regards to contents AND demeanor.

I agree we disagree. But only I am in the comfortable position to know what I know in the aristotelian manner of the craftsman (techne). You instead can only hope you might be right but wish to proof that in a lenghty scientific manner.


I never said you were an anonymous computer. You are, however, an anonymous person. I have no reason to believe you are as intelligent as your incredible arrogance might otherwise make you seem, therefor I have no reason to take you at your word that your supposed experience give you some insight that cannot be demonstrated in a "lengthy scientific manner."

Angry, arrogant, and insulting words have no meaning in the original context of this thread. Which means we have another derailed thread. Guess that isn't surprising, seems to be the M.O. around CR these days...
« Last Edit: May 10, 2014, 10:47:11 PM by jrista »
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fussy III

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Re: New Canon Tilt-Shift Lenses at Photokina [CR1]
« Reply #42 on: May 10, 2014, 11:53:52 PM »
I have no reason to believe you are as intelligent as your incredible arrogance might otherwise make you seem.

Well, be assured I try to use my brain at all times.


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Re: New Canon Tilt-Shift Lenses at Photokina [CR1]
« Reply #42 on: May 10, 2014, 11:53:52 PM »

jrista

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Re: New Canon Tilt-Shift Lenses at Photokina [CR1]
« Reply #43 on: May 11, 2014, 12:06:01 AM »
Here is a full-blown T/S bellows kit with focusing rail and lens, designed specifically for macro, that allows up to 1.2x magnification on FF sensors and up to 1.8x on APS-C sensors. Allows up to 25° of tilt freedom. Adaptable to a very wide range of camera types and mounts.

http://www.novoflex.com/en/products/macro-accessories/bellows-systems/bellows-attachment-castbal-ts/

This is even better than the LensBaby gizmos if you really want a highly flexible macro system. For anyone who is actually interested in a flexible macro setup, you can buy all the parts on B&H:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=novoflex+castbal&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ma&Top+Nav-Search=

Pricey at $1904 for the bellows/focuser, lens, and adapter, but probably still less costly than any potential new Canon TS Macro lens that might be announced this year.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2014, 12:10:40 AM by jrista »
My Photography
Current Gear: Canon 7D | Canon EF 600mm f/4 L IS II | EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 L IS | EF 16-35mm f/2.8 L | EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro | 50mm f/1.4
New Gear List: Canon 5D III/7D II | Canon EF 300mm f/2.8 L II

fussy III

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Re: New Canon Tilt-Shift Lenses at Photokina [CR1]
« Reply #44 on: May 11, 2014, 12:54:09 AM »
Here is a full-blown T/S bellows kit with focusing rail and lens, designed specifically for macro, that allows up to 1.2x magnification on FF sensors and up to 1.8x on APS-C sensors. Allows up to 25° of tilt freedom. Adaptable to a very wide range of camera types and mounts.


The fact that this exists does not proove it will work for your purposes around 1:1. It might not even live up to the purposes by which the device is marketed. Just be aware of that possibility. This set-up is certainly useful for product-photography but also more clumsy than many others on the market with regards to plain tilt-movements.

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Re: New Canon Tilt-Shift Lenses at Photokina [CR1]
« Reply #44 on: May 11, 2014, 12:54:09 AM »