November 28, 2014, 02:34:29 AM

Author Topic: Thinking about moving from a 1Dx back to 5D MkIII  (Read 3398 times)

jasonsim

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Thinking about moving from a 1Dx back to 5D MkIII
« on: May 08, 2014, 09:09:11 PM »
I'm again thinking about selling off my 1Dx and picking up a 5D Mk III again.  It will be my third 5D III in two years or so. 

Negatives about the 1Dx as compared to the 5D III:

1.  only 18 MP; I need to crop most of the time even when using my 600mm + 1.4x.  I photograph mostly birds with this combo. 

2.  Loud shutter.  I get all kind of looks from parents when I photograph events ( indoor ice skating, tae kwon do, birthday parties).

3.  Heavy; especially with pro f/2.8 zooms.

4.  Most of the time, with 12 or 10 FPS I feel overwhelmed with the number of exposures I take back with me and post process. 

Positives for the 1Dx:

1.  12fps when really needed; like shooting BIF.

2.  Spot metering on any AF point (not just the center point).

3.  A bit faster AF speed on most lenses.

4.  better metering and AWB.

5.  the new auto exposure compensation when in Manual mode.  Not really used it, but would have loved it when I photographed eagles last Nov. 

6.  Ergonomic portrait shutting (built in grip)...I never liked the bolt on grips of the smaller EOS bodies.  They just seem out of place and not really ergonomic.

I could use some funds to feed another expensive hobby of mine...so the spare $3k might go a long way.  Or I can sell off some other lenses like the 70-200mm f/4L and 17-40mm f/4L.  These are kinda overlaps since I have the f/2.8L's. 

Anyone think that Canon will trickle down the auto exposure compensation in manual mode to the 5D III?  The last firmware update for it was over 6 months ago. 

Thanks for insight and constructive brain storming.  BTW, this is a hobby and I don't earn a living from photography.  I am called upon occasionally to do family portraits and shot important event ( got a polo event to shoot in June ). 

-- Jason
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Thinking about moving from a 1Dx back to 5D MkIII
« on: May 08, 2014, 09:09:11 PM »

TeleFragger

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Re: Thinking about moving from a 1Dx back to 5D MkIII
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2014, 09:46:03 PM »
well im new here.. and i know little..

but i want a 1dx... guy at work who owns a 5dm3 said 1dm4 is the best for me....

it is funny.. you list..
18mp.. my t2i is so
loud shutter - yeah who cares... really so what..
u list 4 negatives and 6 positives..

im gonna stretch and say even if u owned a not out yet 1dxm2 youd want to switch..


so it is easy.. a 5dm3 or 1dx... just do it.. and sit with it.. many of us (t2i users) would love to be in your very heavily issued issues...

all said with a sense of humor....

jrista

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Re: Thinking about moving from a 1Dx back to 5D MkIII
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2014, 10:07:36 PM »
I think it's reasonable to downstep to the 5D III. I'm always amazed at the clean creamy smooth quality of OOF backgrounds with the 1D X, but the 5D III's backgrounds are still very good, and it's subject detail is better. I think there is a lot of value to having more pixels, especially with full frame, since it's tougher to get the needed reach sometimes. Cropping is just a necessity.

I also fully understand the negatives of a loud shutter. Just the other day, I was photographing a Black-crowned Night Heron, and the shutter sound of my 7D (which is also relatively loud) spooked some deer that had crept up between shots...I hadn't even known they were there before, and if it wasn't for the shutter sound, I doubt they would have cared that I was there either (I probably looked like some oddly shaped tree with all my camo). After the shutter sound, the deer refused to cross this little rise I was standing on to get to the water...and I love photographing the deer drinking and splashing about.

Personally, I use evaluative metering in manual mode and a fixed white balance setting (I don't like my WB changing shot to shot with minor changes in the light), and I manually compensate, so not having AF-point linked metering  or AWB wouldn't be a big deal for me. I use Art Morris' approach to exposure, which is actually pretty awesome. A lot of the time, so long as the lighting and angle of light doesn't change, once you set exposure, you can just keep shooting until something does change (i.e. cloud, angle changes too much, etc.)

The only real serious drawback of the 5D III vs. the 1D X is having half the frame rate. I consider 6fps rock bottom for action shooting, especially for birds. I would much prefer to have 8fps, and 12fps would be perfect (not too many frames, but not too little either.) Assuming you frame the same, there really isn't that much of a difference in real sensitivity (the 1D X has 44% Q.E. while the 5D III has 49%...the smaller pixels means more readout wiring in the 5D III, which reduces total light sensitive area a bit, so in identically framed situations, there really isn't a significant sensitivity benefit for the 1D X, and better cropping ability.)

I've considered what full frame camera to buy on many occasions. I'm using a 7D now, and I like the small pixels/high spatial resolution. I'd like 12fps, but seeing is that is the one significant benefit to the 1D X for me (there are certainly other benefits, but none as significant as that relative to the 5D III), I've decided to get the 5D III. The savings will allow me to invest in my astrophotography (probably a cooled mono CCD camera, which will suck up most of the extra funds I'd save by not getting the 1D X), and the 5D III is an excellent general purpose body (good enough for birds/wildlife and has the best Canon AF system, better for landscapes than pretty much any other Canon camera (large frame and the most pixels of any Canon camera), larger frame so better for low light shooting, will work quite well as an astro cam until I buy the mono CCD, etc.)

3kramd5

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Re: Thinking about moving from a 1Dx back to 5D MkIII
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2014, 01:06:04 AM »
I'll trade you. :)
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Menace

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Re: Thinking about moving from a 1Dx back to 5D MkIII
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2014, 01:25:43 AM »
"Anyone think that Canon will trickle down the auto exposure compensation in manual mode to the 5D III?  The last firmware update for it was over 6 months ago"

Hard to say - maybe Canon will introduce it in the replacement for the 5D III - which could well be 18-24 months away!
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mackguyver

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Re: Thinking about moving from a 1Dx back to 5D MkIII
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2014, 10:38:57 AM »
Jason, it's definitely a personal decision, but if you aren't taking advantage of all of the 1D X's features and the $3k could go towards things that would benefit your work, then it may be the way to go.  I'm fortunate enough to have both bodies so I can pick & choose between them.  What I will say is that beyond the 12 FPS, the rest of the features are "nice-to-haves", but not really "essentials", at least for most people.  For low light wildlife work and sports, I'm making full use of all of the extra features, but the 5DIII was "enough" for my work for quite a while.  It's probably the best all-around camera out there.  While I think the 1D X is better, I'm not sure it's anywhere close to being $3k better.

TeleFragger

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Re: Thinking about moving from a 1Dx back to 5D MkIII
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2014, 10:48:46 AM »
...What I will say is that beyond the 12 FPS, the rest of the features are "nice-to-haves", but not really "essentials", at least for most people.  For low light wildlife work and sports, I'm making full use of all of the extra features...

could you elaborate on that for me? I am constantly trying to figure out what features are those nice to haves and trying to determine if they are worth the extra cost....

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Re: Thinking about moving from a 1Dx back to 5D MkIII
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2014, 10:48:46 AM »

mackguyver

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Re: Thinking about moving from a 1Dx back to 5D MkIII
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2014, 11:10:29 AM »
...What I will say is that beyond the 12 FPS, the rest of the features are "nice-to-haves", but not really "essentials", at least for most people.  For low light wildlife work and sports, I'm making full use of all of the extra features...

could you elaborate on that for me? I am constantly trying to figure out what features are those nice to haves and trying to determine if they are worth the extra cost....
Sure, here's a partial list (in no particular order) and why I find them helpful:

1. The build quality - Definitely tougher than the 5DIII, but the 5DIII is plenty tough short of combat
2. Viewfinder shutter - definitely easier and more convenient than using the rubber eye cover, or what I use, a hat.
3. Manual with exposure compensation - this ROCKS for sports and wildlife shooting when you're faced with changing light conditions or light and dark subjects (e.g. swans and crows), but it's easy enough to work around
4. Automatic Extender compensation - again, convenient (I often forget), but nothing a quick turn of the wheel can't do
5. AF-pt. linked spot metering.  Great for sports and wildlife (similar to 3 above), in fast-paced shooting, but again, not critical
6. Multi-spot metering - convenient, but can easily be done in your head/on your phone in the situations where it's most useful
7. Face detect / color tracking AF - very handy with the 85L II at f/1.2 and gives better AI-Servo performance, but doesn't blow away the 5DIII
8. Higher voltage battery for faster AF with USM lenses.  Noticeable, but not critical in most situations
9. Built-in portrait grip - it's "free" but then again, it makes the camera a lot bigger
10. X-Sync speed of 1/250s - helpful for a bit more freedom when trying to overpower the sun, but 1/200s isn't that much slower
11. Auto ISO upper limit above 1/200s (essential for sports if you use Auto ISO) - I sure hope Canon gives us this in a future 5DIII upgrade if nothing else.  It cripples/crippled the Auto ISO feature and made/makes Canon look like idiots compared to Canon.  Why Canon, why?
12. Better high ISO captures over ISO 3200.  This one is really nice if you shoot at ISO 6400+ much, though the 6D has lower noise from what I hear.

bdunbar79

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Re: Thinking about moving from a 1Dx back to 5D MkIII
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2014, 12:42:52 PM »
...What I will say is that beyond the 12 FPS, the rest of the features are "nice-to-haves", but not really "essentials", at least for most people.  For low light wildlife work and sports, I'm making full use of all of the extra features...

could you elaborate on that for me? I am constantly trying to figure out what features are those nice to haves and trying to determine if they are worth the extra cost....
Sure, here's a partial list (in no particular order) and why I find them helpful:

1. The build quality - Definitely tougher than the 5DIII, but the 5DIII is plenty tough short of combat
2. Viewfinder shutter - definitely easier and more convenient than using the rubber eye cover, or what I use, a hat.
3. Manual with exposure compensation - this ROCKS for sports and wildlife shooting when you're faced with changing light conditions or light and dark subjects (e.g. swans and crows), but it's easy enough to work around
4. Automatic Extender compensation - again, convenient (I often forget), but nothing a quick turn of the wheel can't do
5. AF-pt. linked spot metering.  Great for sports and wildlife (similar to 3 above), in fast-paced shooting, but again, not critical
6. Multi-spot metering - convenient, but can easily be done in your head/on your phone in the situations where it's most useful
7. Face detect / color tracking AF - very handy with the 85L II at f/1.2 and gives better AI-Servo performance, but doesn't blow away the 5DIII
8. Higher voltage battery for faster AF with USM lenses.  Noticeable, but not critical in most situations
9. Built-in portrait grip - it's "free" but then again, it makes the camera a lot bigger
10. X-Sync speed of 1/250s - helpful for a bit more freedom when trying to overpower the sun, but 1/200s isn't that much slower
11. Auto ISO upper limit above 1/200s (essential for sports if you use Auto ISO) - I sure hope Canon gives us this in a future 5DIII upgrade if nothing else.  It cripples/crippled the Auto ISO feature and made/makes Canon look like idiots compared to Canon.  Why Canon, why?
12. Better high ISO captures over ISO 3200.  This one is really nice if you shoot at ISO 6400+ much, though the 6D has lower noise from what I hear.

What do you mean by point #11??  I used auto ISO all the time with my 5D3 and I don't really know what you mean here.

I actually sold my 5D3's and got 1Dx's because I like them a ton better, but, I only shoot sports, so take that for what it's worth.  The AF is way better.  When I would shoot long jump with the 5D3, I might get 2 or 3 photos in focus as the jumper jumped towards me.  But with the 1Dx I can fire off 8 shots in a second and all 8 are in razor sharp focus.  If you don't need that great of AF though, then I could see buying a pair of 5D3's and selling the 1Dx.  My lenses are long enough though and I don't need to crop too much, so 18 MP's is just fine for me. 

I shot the NCAC track meet last Friday and Saturday with 1Dx's and had about 950 shots, and not ONE (I'm not joking) were OOF.

I also used CWA or spot metering and linked it to active AF point, shot in manual with auto ISO with a +2/3 EC.  That ROCKED!!

Good luck with your choice.  It'll be tough!
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mackguyver

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Re: Thinking about moving from a 1Dx back to 5D MkIII
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2014, 12:54:41 PM »
11. Auto ISO upper limit above 1/200s (essential for sports if you use Auto ISO) - I sure hope Canon gives us this in a future 5DIII upgrade if nothing else.  It cripples/crippled the Auto ISO feature and made/makes Canon look like idiots compared to Canon.  Why Canon, why?

What do you mean by point #11??  I used auto ISO all the time with my 5D3 and I don't really know what you mean here.
First of all, a correction, I should have said 1/250s, and please take a look at the screenshots of the 5DIII manual below and the 1D X guide to the new firmware features.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2014, 12:58:09 PM by mackguyver »

TeleFragger

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Re: Thinking about moving from a 1Dx back to 5D MkIII
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2014, 01:24:35 PM »
^^^^ WOW COOL!!!!! hmm wonder if my t2i has that...

funny how you point out sports in most of them.. and that is what I want...
I tried auto iso on my t2i as clouds would roll in during a soccer game. I did shutter priority and auto iso and it was such a pain!!!!

mackguyver

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Re: Thinking about moving from a 1Dx back to 5D MkIII
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2014, 02:45:06 PM »
^^^^ WOW COOL!!!!! hmm wonder if my t2i has that...

funny how you point out sports in most of them.. and that is what I want...
I tried auto iso on my t2i as clouds would roll in during a soccer game. I did shutter priority and auto iso and it was such a pain!!!!
Yep, it's pretty sweet, and I had the T2i for quite a while and I think it has a setting for Auto ISO, but I'm sure it's capped at 1/250s as well.  For sports, you'll get the best results by doing the following, and using back-button autofocus (search the forum for posts on that if you don't know what it is):

Shoot in Manual mode.  Set the aperture wide open, and then adjust the ISO until you have a shutter speed around 1/2000s.  When you set the exposure, point the lens at the grass or Caucasian skin (which are close to 20% gray) and watch the exposure indicator until it's a "0".  With the 1/4000s limit on the T2i (vs. 1/8000s on pro bodies), you might want to set the initial exposure at 1/1000s if you need more exposure adjustment lattitude.  From there, you can use the thumbwheel to adjust the shutter speed (to 1/1000s for -1 EV and to 1/4000s for +1EV) to compensate the exposure for sun & shadow.  Watch the histogram while you shoot and if you're seeing highlight clipping (make sure the indicator is turned on) increase the shutter speed, and if the histogram is bunched up on the left and the photos are dark, bump the shutter speed down.

bdunbar79

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Re: Thinking about moving from a 1Dx back to 5D MkIII
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2014, 09:44:25 PM »
So you mean a minimum shutter speed setting using Av mode with auto ISO? 
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Re: Thinking about moving from a 1Dx back to 5D MkIII
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2014, 09:44:25 PM »

mackguyver

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Re: Thinking about moving from a 1Dx back to 5D MkIII
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2014, 11:12:04 PM »
So you mean a minimum shutter speed setting using Av mode with auto ISO?
Yes

dancook

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Re: Thinking about moving from a 1Dx back to 5D MkIII
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2014, 03:17:47 PM »
I just configured auto-exposure on my Magic Lantern today for my 5dM3. (Oh and by the way.. I love silent shutter mode)

For candid street portraiture - I have been using the inbuilt 1/250 min shutter speed with auto ISO and f2 aperture, but I'd be more comfortable with a higher shutter speed - ISO will be pretty low anyway.

So now with Magic Lantern I can configure that

http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=7208.0




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Re: Thinking about moving from a 1Dx back to 5D MkIII
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2014, 03:17:47 PM »