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Author Topic: Canon Interested in Hasselblad?  (Read 3414 times)

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Canon Interested in Hasselblad?
« on: May 12, 2014, 09:19:41 AM »

The quick and direct answer? No.


A lot has come in over the weekend in regards to the reports that Ventizz Capital will be selling off its ownership of the Swedish camera maker Hasselblad. It’s no secret that Hasselblad is in financial trouble, as the whole medium format segment seems to be under capitalized and lacking direction.


Does Canon have any interest in purchasing Hasselblad? I don’t think so. Canon did have Hasselblad’s books open a few years ago, but that was probably more of a tire kicking exercise than actual interest in purchasing the company.


If I had to wager on a purchaser for Hasselblad, I would go with Silverfleet Capital, who owns Danish medium format company PhaseOne. The second option could be Sony, although I think they’ll enter the segment on their own.


cr


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Canon Interested in Hasselblad?
« on: May 12, 2014, 09:19:41 AM »

adhocphotographer

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Re: Canon Interested in Hasselblad?
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2014, 09:30:15 AM »
Come on Canon....  Get stuck in...  though i see PhaseOne or Sony over Canon, as CR already suggested....  :(
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Re: Canon Interested in Hasselblad?
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2014, 09:43:14 AM »
Canon or Sony could do it, and take a VAG approach.  VW made not too interesting cars, merged with Audi, they now own Seat, Skoda, Lambourghini, Bentley, Porsche and Bugatti (and still own the rights to the mighty mighty Trabant).  All loss-making brands turned around through economies of scale and sharing of parts and technologies.

Why not have Hasseblad as your "flagship" range, supported by profit, development and some parts from the lower range?  Even the Bugatti Veyron shares a common VAG part with the lowly Skoda Fabia!

Saves Canon developing a medium format camera, whilst having access to the technlogy and the market through a back door and honing their own offering.
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Re: Canon Interested in Hasselblad?
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2014, 10:06:16 AM »
Canon doesnt need any innovation at all, just marketing. They can llsensors with technology from 200x and be market leader with them.

Their bosses will get nice boni, and share holders nice divident. Developpement and innovation are a waste of money :)

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Re: Canon Interested in Hasselblad?
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2014, 10:40:11 AM »
Let the ill-informed, irrational whining begin.

Hasselblad is the narrowest of niche market players. They've diminished their most valuable asset – their brand name – by releasing the laughingstock of the digital camera market.

As a consumer, it would be bad enough for Canon to throw good money down the medium format rat hole developing their own product. To buy a failing company in a shrinking market would be ridiculous.

Canon and Nikon have had well over 50 years to research and consider the medium format market. During the film era, it would have been cheaper and easier to develop a medium format camera and the market segment was much larger. Yet, neither company did so. Today, the market has shrunk and the cost of entry has risen.

This isn't about whether or not Canon (or Nikon) are innovative. Innovation has nothing to do with this decision, it's just common sense.
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Re: Canon Interested in Hasselblad?
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2014, 10:42:10 AM »
If they keep Hasselblad's marketing department we might get a re-badged M.  :o

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Re: Canon Interested in Hasselblad?
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2014, 10:45:47 AM »
In the good old days, you designed a camera and it was good for years.... good for decades with higher quality cameras like MF....

In the digital world, things are changing fast so the lifespan of a body is just a few years until it is obsolete. Couple that with poor economies of scale and with high development costs, and it becomes very unlikely that a MF camera will recover it's costs during it's short lifespan. I find it amazing that there are players in MF at all...
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Re: Canon Interested in Hasselblad?
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2014, 10:45:47 AM »

hendrik-sg

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Re: Canon Interested in Hasselblad?
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2014, 11:43:44 AM »
Let the ill-informed, irrational whining begin.

Hasselblad is the narrowest of niche market players. They've diminished their most valuable asset – their brand name – by releasing the laughingstock of the digital camera market.

As a consumer, it would be bad enough for Canon to throw good money down the medium format rat hole developing their own product. To buy a failing company in a shrinking market would be ridiculous.

Canon and Nikon have had well over 50 years to research and consider the medium format market. During the film era, it would have been cheaper and easier to develop a medium format camera and the market segment was much larger. Yet, neither company did so. Today, the market has shrunk and the cost of entry has risen.

This isn't about whether or not Canon (or Nikon) are innovative. Innovation has nothing to do with this decision, it's just common sense.

Thanks for you unfocused reply. Some economic principles are to be discussed:

- The market leader delivers acceptable price and quality, but is never the best
- A Label and its reputation has a value and can be sold, either to sb else or it can be milked until its no longer there

Canon is the marked leader, thats unquestioned. For sure pictures and videos can be taken by ther equipment, but either has their equipment the best specs or performance nor is it the cheapest (50L vs 50 1.4 Sigma). Further its not the most innovative, Examples are the Sig 18-35 zoom, again the 50mm Sigma which is the first affordable non Gauss 50mm, or the much better exmor sensors in the Sony / Nikon bodies. In sensor performance Canon is the worst of the bigger players now, why? Just because the smaller players have to be innovative against the market leader and Canon does not.

As for the label value, in my opinion Canon is milking their label. People do change brand only under really high pressure, because of habit and for high changing costs. Newcomer buy what they see most frequent, and thats Canon of course. To compare with cars, end of nineties, mercedes sold their high quality image by building a new generation of E-Classes in much lower quality, sold "Opel" quality for Mercedes prices. They needed expensive warranty efforts to partly earn back their reputation, and are still not finished until now. Audi for comparision worked 20 years to earn their quality reputation and label value, to reach same prestige levelas BMW and Mercedes have.

The danger for Canon is, that by their non-innovation, high price politics they sell their label now. Whats later, when high end users do the swich in large numbers and newcomers buy whats said to be better it might be quite late. They may shrink as the complete medium format world has by not going digital in time. This may happen, when EF-mount is getting old and new trends are overslept.

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Re: Canon Interested in Hasselblad?
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2014, 11:47:40 AM »
not sure if Canon should buy Hassey, but perhaps they should buy a portion and allow Hassey access to their sensor and digital body technology.

If we look 5-10 years out, 35 mm format bodies will be maxed out with resolution and FPS.  25-100,000 ISO will become nearly noiseless.  Where does Canon (or Nikon) go from there?

An increase in resolution will require a larger sensor.  Challenge for Canon to get consumers (pros) to switch to MF is that the current lenses will not (most likely) work on MF bodies.  So even if Canon came up with a $10,000 MF body, another $25,000 (or more) would be required for a new set of lenses.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2014, 11:49:28 AM by RGF »

mackguyver

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Re: Canon Interested in Hasselblad?
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2014, 12:39:39 PM »
Canon doesnt need any innovation at all, just marketing.
I would KILL for a Canon body with this feature, which by all accounts works as advertised:
Hasselblad TrueFocus

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Re: Canon Interested in Hasselblad?
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2014, 12:55:02 PM »
What?  You need a larger sensor for higher resolution?  The Nokia smartphone has 40MP...come on.  What needs to happen is make the denser res sensors better and less leaking from pixel to pixel. Also better technology like Foveon sensor (I think Canon was looking into that possibility).

There also becomes a point where the resolution game gets to a stasis level...don't know if that is 45MP, 55PM, 100MP...

Just getting to the Nikon 800 MP level would be a win and they'd grow their market share for sure. 

not sure if Canon should buy Hassey, but perhaps they should buy a portion and allow Hassey access to their sensor and digital body technology.

If we look 5-10 years out, 35 mm format bodies will be maxed out with resolution and FPS.  25-100,000 ISO will become nearly noiseless.  Where does Canon (or Nikon) go from there?

An increase in resolution will require a larger sensor.  Challenge for Canon to get consumers (pros) to switch to MF is that the current lenses will not (most likely) work on MF bodies.  So even if Canon came up with a $10,000 MF body, another $25,000 (or more) would be required for a new set of lenses.
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Re: Canon Interested in Hasselblad?
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2014, 01:09:14 PM »

- The market leader delivers acceptable price and quality, but is never the best
- A Label and its reputation has a value and can be sold, either to sb else or it can be milked until its no longer there

No disagreement there. The "best" is always a subjective assessment, but it is certainly true that the incremental costs go up significantly as product quality goes from "excellent" to "best." There are also a diminishing number of buyers who are willing or able to afford the "best." Which is why most companies that offer the "best" tend to be small, niche market firms.

Canon is the marked leader, thats unquestioned. For sure pictures and videos can be taken by ther equipment, but either has their equipment the best specs or performance nor is it the cheapest (50L vs 50 1.4 Sigma).

Specs are subjective. In your specific example, the 50mm f1.4 Sigma may have marginally better optical performance, but build quality, reliability, consistency and durability are at least up for debate. For many buyers, those qualities can take precedence over a marginal improvement in optical quality

Further its not the most innovative, Examples are the Sig 18-35 zoom, again the 50mm Sigma which is the first affordable non Gauss 50mm, or the much better exmor sensors in the Sony / Nikon bodies.

You are cherry-picking innovation. Canon's dual-pixel technology is just one example where they are at the leading edge. You should really state that Canon is not the most innovative in the areas you want.

In sensor performance Canon is the worst of the bigger players now...

That's just false. Canon has the best performing full frame sensor available in terms of high ISO noise performance. Again, you are cherry-picking narrow areas of sensor performance and claiming Canon is "the worst." The same could be done for any brand of sensor. 

Whats later, when high end users do the switch in large numbers and newcomers buy whats said to be better it might be quite late...

What users are switching? Let's see some numbers. Because, all the numbers that have been published would indicate just the opposite.

Finally, let's have a dose of reality here. Cameras are a tool to produce a final product. The vast majority of final products being produced by cameras live on the internet. Even the lowest-priced APS-C camera available today is more than adequate for web-based final products.

The threat to Canon is not from being out-innovated by their peers. The threat is from a cultural change in how the mass of the public takes and uses pictures. The real need for innovation within the industry would be innovative ways to foster greater demand.
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Re: Canon Interested in Hasselblad?
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2014, 01:17:00 PM »

- The market leader delivers acceptable price and quality, but is never the best
- A Label and its reputation has a value and can be sold, either to sb else or it can be milked until its no longer there

No disagreement there. The "best" is always a subjective assessment, but it is certainly true that the incremental costs go up significantly as product quality goes from "excellent" to "best." There are also a diminishing number of buyers who are willing or able to afford the "best." Which is why most companies that offer the "best" tend to be small, niche market firms.

Canon is the marked leader, thats unquestioned. For sure pictures and videos can be taken by ther equipment, but either has their equipment the best specs or performance nor is it the cheapest (50L vs 50 1.4 Sigma).

Specs are subjective. In your specific example, the 50mm f1.4 Sigma may have marginally better optical performance, but build quality, reliability, consistency and durability are at least up for debate. For many buyers, those qualities can take precedence over a marginal improvement in optical quality

Further its not the most innovative, Examples are the Sig 18-35 zoom, again the 50mm Sigma which is the first affordable non Gauss 50mm, or the much better exmor sensors in the Sony / Nikon bodies.

You are cherry-picking innovation. Canon's dual-pixel technology is just one example where they are at the leading edge. You should really state that Canon is not the most innovative in the areas you want.

In sensor performance Canon is the worst of the bigger players now...

That's just false. Canon has the best performing full frame sensor available in terms of high ISO noise performance. Again, you are cherry-picking narrow areas of sensor performance and claiming Canon is "the worst." The same could be done for any brand of sensor. 

Whats later, when high end users do the switch in large numbers and newcomers buy whats said to be better it might be quite late...

What users are switching? Let's see some numbers. Because, all the numbers that have been published would indicate just the opposite.

Finally, let's have a dose of reality here. Cameras are a tool to produce a final product. The vast majority of final products being produced by cameras live on the internet. Even the lowest-priced APS-C camera available today is more than adequate for web-based final products.

The threat to Canon is not from being out-innovated by their peers. The threat is from a cultural change in how the mass of the public takes and uses pictures. The real need for innovation within the industry would be innovative ways to foster greater demand.

Excellent deconstruction.  Agree with you on the real need for innovation.
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Re: Canon Interested in Hasselblad?
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2014, 01:17:00 PM »

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Re: Canon Interested in Hasselblad?
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2014, 01:53:32 PM »
What?  You need a larger sensor for higher resolution?  The Nokia smartphone has 40MP...come on.  What needs to happen is make the denser res sensors better and less leaking from pixel to pixel. Also better technology like Foveon sensor (I think Canon was looking into that possibility).

There also becomes a point where the resolution game gets to a stasis level...don't know if that is 45MP, 55PM, 100MP...

Just getting to the Nikon 800 MP level would be a win and they'd grow their market share for sure. 

not sure if Canon should buy Hassey, but perhaps they should buy a portion and allow Hassey access to their sensor and digital body technology.

If we look 5-10 years out, 35 mm format bodies will be maxed out with resolution and FPS.  25-100,000 ISO will become nearly noiseless.  Where does Canon (or Nikon) go from there?

An increase in resolution will require a larger sensor.  Challenge for Canon to get consumers (pros) to switch to MF is that the current lenses will not (most likely) work on MF bodies.  So even if Canon came up with a $10,000 MF body, another $25,000 (or more) would be required for a new set of lenses.

Do you think you can get the same detail from a Nokia 40 MP smart phone and a 40 MP Hassey?

With 35mm, beyond 35-50 MP (pick your number) lens and diffraction limit resolving power.  What is next?

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Re: Canon Interested in Hasselblad?
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2014, 04:11:53 PM »
Quote
Does Canon have any interest in purchasing Hasselblad? I don’t think so. Canon did have Hasselblad’s books open a few years ago, but that was probably more of a tire kicking exercise than actual interest in purchasing the company.

My guess is Canon was looking for intellectual property that would add more value to the purchase.
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Re: Canon Interested in Hasselblad?
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2014, 04:11:53 PM »