October 21, 2014, 08:23:06 AM

Author Topic: Working with the 17 TS-E without live view  (Read 900 times)

sagittariansrock

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Working with the 17 TS-E without live view
« on: May 13, 2014, 09:14:14 PM »
So I bought a used 5D (thanks for the helpful suggestions) and a 17mm TS-E at the same time. While I would rarely if ever use the TS-E on the 5D, when I do I won't have live view to help me.
Now, those of you who have had dSLRs and tilt-shift lenses before the advent of live view, any advice or tips will be greatly appreciated. Should I, for example, get the grid screen? Any other screen? etc...
Thanks!
EOS 5DIII, EOS 5D | Rokinon 14mm f/2.8, TS-E 17mm f/4L, EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM, EF 35mm f/1.4L USM, EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM, EF 135mm f/2L USM, EF 70-200 f/2.8L IS II USM, 1.4x III, 2x III | 600-EX-RT x3 | EOS M + EF-M 22mm f/2

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Working with the 17 TS-E without live view
« on: May 13, 2014, 09:14:14 PM »

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Working with the 17 TS-E without live view
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2014, 11:07:28 PM »
Tilt-shift lenses have been around long before live view, however, a focusing screen was also in many older film SLR's which helps you focus.
 
Personally, I immediately sold my almost new 30d and bought a 40D when live view came along, Canon has it down very good, you can also link with a laptop, or even some tablets.
 
As much as as the TS-E costs, I's save for a 6D or a FF body with live view.  Meanwhile, get a different focus screen if you don't have to pay too much.

sagittariansrock

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Re: Working with the 17 TS-E without live view
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2014, 12:53:50 AM »
Tilt-shift lenses have been around long before live view, however, a focusing screen was also in many older film SLR's which helps you focus.
 
Personally, I immediately sold my almost new 30d and bought a 40D when live view came along, Canon has it down very good, you can also link with a laptop, or even some tablets.
 
As much as as the TS-E costs, I's save for a 6D or a FF body with live view.  Meanwhile, get a different focus screen if you don't have to pay too much.

I have a 5DIII which I expect to use most of the time with the TS-E. But I am wondering about those other times when I want to use the 5D with it.
EOS 5DIII, EOS 5D | Rokinon 14mm f/2.8, TS-E 17mm f/4L, EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM, EF 35mm f/1.4L USM, EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM, EF 135mm f/2L USM, EF 70-200 f/2.8L IS II USM, 1.4x III, 2x III | 600-EX-RT x3 | EOS M + EF-M 22mm f/2

BL

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Re: Working with the 17 TS-E without live view
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2014, 04:30:26 PM »
I would get the grid screen, throw it on a tripod and call it good.  The slower aperture and super wide angle helps mitigate not having LV.

Tilts will be harder to gauge focus without LV, so make sure you stop down enough to ensure your plane of focus is solid.
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privatebydesign

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Re: Working with the 17 TS-E without live view
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2014, 04:57:40 PM »
My advice, in all seriousness, is don't. It will be a letdown. Tilt with the 17 is very difficult to achieve accurately with live view anyway as the gearing is far to coarse, a fraction of a turn, even the pressure of your finger on the knob, will move the plane of focus some distance at moderate J point distances.

As for having tilt lenses prior to Live View, this is true, but they were not 17mm ones and the wider the lens the more difficult the accurate adjustment.

Failing that make some basic J point measurements, and use a tilt table (Northlight has one for the 17mm), it will work well enough.
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sagittariansrock

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Re: Working with the 17 TS-E without live view
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2014, 05:26:54 PM »
Thanks for your helpful suggestions. I guess it is exclusively the 5DIII for tilt/shift then, which is fine.
The table is a handy resource to have around.
EOS 5DIII, EOS 5D | Rokinon 14mm f/2.8, TS-E 17mm f/4L, EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM, EF 35mm f/1.4L USM, EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM, EF 135mm f/2L USM, EF 70-200 f/2.8L IS II USM, 1.4x III, 2x III | 600-EX-RT x3 | EOS M + EF-M 22mm f/2

JustMeOregon

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Re: Working with the 17 TS-E without live view
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2014, 10:47:06 PM »
My advice, in all seriousness, is don't. It will be a letdown. Tilt with the 17 is very difficult to achieve accurately with live view anyway as the gearing is far to coarse, a fraction of a turn, even the pressure of your finger on the knob, will move the plane of focus some distance at moderate J point distances.

As for having tilt lenses prior to Live View, this is true, but they were not 17mm ones and the wider the lens the more difficult the accurate adjustment.

Failing that make some basic J point measurements, and use a tilt table (Northlight has one for the 17mm), it will work well enough.

What PBD says is the sad truth... When I'm really lazy & try to hand-hold a tilted shot, the only hope I have is to stop the TS-E lens way down in the vain attempt to increase my margin-of-error by increasing the DOF.

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Re: Working with the 17 TS-E without live view
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2014, 10:47:06 PM »

Eldar

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Re: Working with the 17 TS-E without live view
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2014, 04:00:27 AM »
I will not pretent to be able to use the TS-E 17 effectively, without a tripod and LiveView. I have tried though.

But I was at an event the other day and met the hired pro. He carried 4 lenses and two bodies (2x5DIII). 70-200 f2.8L IS II, 24-70 2.8L II, 85 1.2L II and the TS-E 17.

What amazed me was that he shot the TS-E handheld, wide open, primarily to capture people on a podium. I had a look at his results and he straightened the perspective perfectly and had dead on vertical focus plane on practically every image. I wondered how he managed that and the answer was a smile and "Practice, Practice, Practice and then some more Practice" ...
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danski0224

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Re: Working with the 17 TS-E without live view
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2014, 06:55:28 AM »
So I bought a used 5D (thanks for the helpful suggestions) and a 17mm TS-E at the same time. While I would rarely if ever use the TS-E on the 5D, when I do I won't have live view to help me.
Now, those of you who have had dSLRs and tilt-shift lenses before the advent of live view, any advice or tips will be greatly appreciated. Should I, for example, get the grid screen? Any other screen? etc...
Thanks!

As above (Eldar's post), it  boils down to experience. Experience doesn't come without practice.

I have found the grid to be helpful with other lenses. Sometimes, it doesn't take much of a change in camera angle to alter converging lines when using wide angle lenses.

Whether or not you can see anything useful on the focus screen is another possible issue. I tried several different screens on a 5DII and just couldn't make it (manual focus) work. I never tried the assorted magnifiers and such- maybe I will revisit that.
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sagittariansrock

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Re: Working with the 17 TS-E without live view
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2014, 09:07:46 AM »
That's very good advice. I hope to get a lot of practice- I have tons of subject around me I'm interested in shooting.
I hardly manually focus tweak lenses nowadays but if I don't use it with the ts-e, I'm undecided between whether to get the grid screen or the super precision screen for the 5D- I'm so used to the grid on 7D and now on 5D I don't really know how much I actually use it. On the other hand, the ability to manual control fast lenses excite me- haven't had that since I sold my K1000. I guess I'll use the 5D with the regular screen for a few weeks and then try to decide. The screens are surprisingly expensive for a 9 year old camera.
EOS 5DIII, EOS 5D | Rokinon 14mm f/2.8, TS-E 17mm f/4L, EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM, EF 35mm f/1.4L USM, EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM, EF 135mm f/2L USM, EF 70-200 f/2.8L IS II USM, 1.4x III, 2x III | 600-EX-RT x3 | EOS M + EF-M 22mm f/2

danski0224

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Re: Working with the 17 TS-E without live view
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2014, 09:28:42 AM »
I thought focus screens were pretty inexpensive,  all things considered.
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Re: Working with the 17 TS-E without live view
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2014, 09:28:42 AM »