October 02, 2014, 05:36:22 AM

Author Topic: Canon 70d center focus point -bug- problem  (Read 12740 times)

Don Haines

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Re: Canon 70d center focus point -bug- problem
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2014, 11:31:22 AM »
I also why "30-50 percent of cameras in Germany" have this problem....

shouldn't the whole world have this problem if it exists?????
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Re: Canon 70d center focus point -bug- problem
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2014, 11:31:22 AM »

unadog

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Re: Canon 70d center focus point -bug- problem
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2014, 03:10:39 PM »
I also why "30-50 percent of cameras in Germany" have this problem....

Hysteria!! :)


The second video should have taken this on much more strongly. This is just nonsense,

1. YOU CANNOT HAND HOLD AN 85 1.2 or 50 1.4 and hit your focus target consistently wide open!

2. YOU CANNOT FOCUS AND RECOMPOSE wide open!  The camera needs to be locked down on a tripod for these tests.

3.  You have to learn A LOT about autofocus to understand how to accurately test your focus.

From Roger Cicala: "Why You Can't Optically Test Your Lens With Autofocus"

 http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2014/02/why-you-cant-optically-test-your-lens-with-autofocus


4. You have to learn A LOT about autofocus to understand the different features/settings on auto focus.

Anyone who has ever owned a 1DX, for example, will tell you that they had to study the auto focus manual for that camera to learn all of the features. And then test like hell to underastand exactly how to use it in the field.

One example: You can select and set the sensitivity of first shot "focus acquisition  priority or shutter release priority."Basically - do you want the camera to ensure absolute best focus before taking a shot, or have a bias toward taking the shot no matter what?


Then you can also tune that for subsequent shots. And that is just one of the focus modes.  This is a 55 page book we are talkinmg about:

"Mastering the EOS 1D X's Autofocus System"

http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2012/1dx_guidebook.shtml


Also time to read up on more of Roger Cicala's posts on auto focus:

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/07/autofocus-reality-part-1-center-point-single-shot-accuracy

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/07/autofocus-reality-part-ii-1-vs-2-and-old-vs-new

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/08/autofocus-reality-part-3b-canon-cameras


These people need to be educate themselves and digest that information before we can talk about an issue with the 70D.  This is just the way that the world works.

When Roger tells me that there is a problem with the 70D, I will believe him. :)

Cheers!






unadog

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Re: Canon 70d center focus point -bug- problem
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2014, 03:42:36 PM »
Have gone through the POTN thread and some people there are even implying that people "without" this problem do not know how to use their cameras. So, I guess the people posting excellent shots on the 70d sample thread don't know how to use their 70ds.

Ah - the dreaded "Dunning-Kruger Effect":

"The skills needed to produce logically sound arguments, for instance, are the same skills that are necessary to recognize when a logically sound argument has been made. Thus, if people lack the skills to produce correct answers, they are also cursed with an inability to know when their answers, or anyone else's, are right or wrong. They cannot recognize their responses as mistaken, or other people's responses as superior to their own."


"The Dunning-Kruger effect occurs where people fail to adequately assess their level of competence — or specifically, their incompetence — at a task.

This lack of awareness is attributed to their lower level of competence robbing them of the ability to critically analyse their performance, leading to a significant overestimate of themselves. Put more crudely, they're too stupid to realize they're stupid."

Luds34

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Re: Canon 70d center focus point -bug- problem
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2014, 03:50:34 PM »
I picked up a 70D in January. Probably a month after owning it, a good buddy (fellow 70D owner) asked me if I had heard about the "70D center point focus issue" and included a ton of links. My understanding is this is/was a legit issue for some bodies. A bad production run, a bad batch, whatever, that ended up mostly in Germany?

So of course a bit paranoid about my new toy I spent a little more time then was probably healthy reading up on this and doing some testing. I'm not a test chart shooting kind of guy. I prefer to just keep it to "real world" feel of how equipment performs. However, for this possible issue I busted out the charts, my 4 fastest lenses, shot a hundred or so shots at different distances, constantly cycling back and forth between live view and viewfinder, manually setting out-of-focus near on one shot, far on the next, taking notes, and then studying on a monitor.

Short story, final result for me? My body (and lenses) all shot fine.

Slightly longer story, is that at first I did see a slight issue with my 28mm f/1.8 and to a lesser degree my 85mm f/1.8. Pixel peeping on the monitor showed a purple hue when using the built in phase detection while the live view phase detection did not. Even though historically I have had great luck focusing with my 28mm, I first thought maybe it was back focusing a little and needed to be compensated for. But then I realized I was exclusively lighting my subject (test charts) with daylight CFLs which can have an affect on PDAF. So I duplicated the tests during the day in with natural light and I could not reproduce the very slight mis-focus issues I was seeing the night before.

So my 70D is working great.

Oh, and to the OP, whom I believe was considering upgrading from a T2i, that is exactly what I did. Love the upgrade. My style is to shoot almost exclusively with the center point and while the 550D worked great for me, the 70D is just a step up in consistency and feels to do better in low light when it comes to focus accuracy (just comparing center point to center point). All around it's just a better experience, from the big marketing spec things like live view phase detection (works great for macro work) to just being that prosumer body with all the little things that help (rear dial, dedicated buttons for things like drive mode or BBF, top lcd). Even something as dumb as how it feels in my hands. I'll carry the 70D one handed and don't fear dropping it. The Rebel was just too small and felt like I was more pinching it with my fingers then wrapping my hand around it (granted I have large hands).

My Rebel is in a small camera bag with the 40mm pancake lens attached. The small size makes it easy to bring almost anywhere. I really wish Canon would do an EF-S 22mm or so pancake as that would make a great, compact walk around (40mm is just a little too long on crop) setup. That "old" 18 MP sensor still takes great pictures.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 01:38:15 AM by Luds34 »

Slyham

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Re: Canon 70d center focus point -bug- problem
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2014, 04:55:38 PM »
This issue really says one thing: DPAF rocks! Some of the videos out there are pixel peeping at 200% to notice the difference. This is not a new issue, but since live view focusing is suddenly super accurate people start to realize that phase detection AF has acceptable tolerances. That is why AFMA was created.

wickidwombat

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Re: Canon 70d center focus point -bug- problem
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2014, 07:42:18 PM »
Have gone through the POTN thread and some people there are even implying that people "without" this problem do not know how to use their cameras. So, I guess the people posting excellent shots on the 70d sample thread don't know how to use their 70ds.

Ah - the dreaded "Dunning-Kruger Effect":

"The skills needed to produce logically sound arguments, for instance, are the same skills that are necessary to recognize when a logically sound argument has been made. Thus, if people lack the skills to produce correct answers, they are also cursed with an inability to know when their answers, or anyone else's, are right or wrong. They cannot recognize their responses as mistaken, or other people's responses as superior to their own."


"The Dunning-Kruger effect occurs where people fail to adequately assess their level of competence — or specifically, their incompetence — at a task.

This lack of awareness is attributed to their lower level of competence robbing them of the ability to critically analyse their performance, leading to a significant overestimate of themselves. Put more crudely, they're too stupid to realize they're stupid."


LOL I like this post alot :D
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unadog

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Re: Canon 70d center focus point -bug- problem
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2014, 09:16:04 PM »
LOL I like this post alot :D

I suppose it is a bit mean, at least that last line is.  :)

But the only ones who should take offense to that are the ones who insist that "if you don't have a problem, you don't know how to use your camera." 

Just another internet conspiracy theory. Lots of talk in those threads about how widespread the problem is, how "1 in 1,000 defects is too many", how Canon is hiding it the problem, etc.

People just need to educate themselves. 

Cheers!

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Re: Canon 70d center focus point -bug- problem
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2014, 09:16:04 PM »

unadog

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Re: Canon 70d center focus point -bug- problem
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2014, 09:18:17 PM »
This issue really says one thing: DPAF rocks! Some of the videos out there are pixel peeping at 200% to notice the difference. This is not a new issue, but since live view focusing is suddenly super accurate people start to realize that phase detection AF has acceptable tolerances. That is why AFMA was created.

This is a great summary!

Luds34's post was also spot on.

I don't mean to be mean to anyone, but this is very sophisticated equipment in many ways. What people are describing as a defect is 1.) Present on every camera made, and 2.) User error ...

Cheers!

Logan

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Re: Canon 70d center focus point -bug- problem
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2014, 10:58:38 PM »
Last time I checked, germany runs on 50hz power, and sometimes 41?

Either that or a popular german youtube video causing "wind power syndrome" are my guesses as to why the conspiracy exists mainly in germany.

Don Haines

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Re: Canon 70d center focus point -bug- problem
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2014, 11:15:29 PM »
Last time I checked, germany runs on 50hz power, and sometimes 41?

Either that or a popular german youtube video causing "wind power syndrome" are my guesses as to why the conspiracy exists mainly in germany.

Great Britain also runs of 50Hz and the problem has not been reported there.... but then again, it could be that because Brittan is so foggy that nobody can tell if the image is out of focus.....
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Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Canon 70d center focus point -bug- problem
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2014, 01:05:49 AM »
check this out for a bit more detail.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1354075


Not all the people reporting issues are as poor at photography as your comments suggest.

The issue is sorting out the experts, from those who do not have a clue.
 
There are plenty of web sites that do competent testing of products, and a few that don't.  However, there are tons of people having issues with equipment who have not determined what the cause of the issue might be.  Competent sites test known good lenses, and if one fails, they test three more.  Since the Canon 50mm f/1.8, for example, is well known to be inconsistent in autofocusing (There is a lot of carefully done testing on this), any test using a lens like that is suspect, because of the issue that they are using a lens that is almost certainly the issue.
 
If you want to leave CR because experienced people are telling you something you don't want to hear, you can delete your own account, you do not need to ask a administrator.
 
I'd suggest that you take advantage of advice from the many good photographers on this site, and go to some of the premiere test sites and read actual test reports rather than taking posters in forums at face value.  Many forums have some really good photographers, but the test sites tend to be a cut above because they have expensive software and the knowhow to avoid the pitfalls that do it your self experts step into.  Some of those experts post on multiple sites, and others pick those posts up and repost links to them, and pretty soon, there are hundreds of reports that are really started by the single clueless individual.
 
Here are some of the well known sites that are fairly competent, and do testing on equipment that was not supplied by the manufacturer.  Photography on the Net does not buy and test equipment or issue test reports.  I don't bother to read their forums, there are probably some good and accurate reports among the many bad ones, its always that way.  We always get a laugh when someone reports a finding by Ken Rockwell, so don't use him as a expert.
 
The Digital Picture
 
Photozone
 
Digital Photography Review
 
Lens Rentals.  They have some of the most sophisticated gear of any test site, and know how to use it.  They also test many copies of the same brand and model of gear, so they know when one is different from the other X hundred they tested.
 
Luminous Landscape (Gets Sony cameras to review from a dealer, sometimes Sony as well).  They do not pull punches if a Sony camera has a issue.
 
Lens Tip is competent, but they get equipment loaned by manufacturers, so that always casts some doubt as to whether the equipment was hand picked for testing.
 
 
 

jarrieta

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Re: Canon 70d center focus point -bug- problem
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2014, 03:16:32 AM »
Have gone through the POTN thread and some people there are even implying that people "without" this problem do not know how to use their cameras. So, I guess the people posting excellent shots on the 70d sample thread don't know how to use their 70ds.

Ah - the dreaded "Dunning-Kruger Effect":

"The skills needed to produce logically sound arguments, for instance, are the same skills that are necessary to recognize when a logically sound argument has been made. Thus, if people lack the skills to produce correct answers, they are also cursed with an inability to know when their answers, or anyone else's, are right or wrong. They cannot recognize their responses as mistaken, or other people's responses as superior to their own."


"The Dunning-Kruger effect occurs where people fail to adequately assess their level of competence — or specifically, their incompetence — at a task.

This lack of awareness is attributed to their lower level of competence robbing them of the ability to critically analyse their performance, leading to a significant overestimate of themselves. Put more crudely, they're too stupid to realize they're stupid."


LOL! Nice.

Lightmaster

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Re: Canon 70d center focus point -bug- problem
« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2014, 04:34:14 AM »
well the 70D seems to have a center focus point bug with some lenses.

that´s why some people are unable to get sharp images, for example, with a 24mm f1.4 and the center AF point on a 70D.

you can´t do much wrong when your camera is on a stative and you test the same setup with a 60D and it works.

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=19673.msg380127#msg380127

there are a lot of people who complain about this.. no need to add insult to injury and claim they are all idiots.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 04:39:03 AM by Lightmaster »

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Re: Canon 70d center focus point -bug- problem
« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2014, 04:34:14 AM »

Lightmaster

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Re: Canon 70d center focus point -bug- problem
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2014, 04:43:24 AM »
Last time I checked, germany runs on 50hz power, and sometimes 41?

Either that or a popular german youtube video causing "wind power syndrome" are my guesses as to why the conspiracy exists mainly in germany.

in fact i just checked the two main german forums i visit and yes.. i count at least 80 different people claiming to have this problem. then i stopped counting.

Quote from: Mt Spokane Photography
Some of those experts post on multiple sites, and others pick those posts up and repost links to them, and pretty soon, there are hundreds of reports that are really started by the single clueless individual.

saying they are all the same individual is a bold claim .. but you are mr. knowitall so i guess you must know.  ::)

they guy in the youtube video i have posted month ago is maybe not a good artist.
but he wrote countless books about canon cameras... so he knows the settings.
im not a fan of his website but in this case i don´t see what he has done wrong and why the 60D works fine in his hands but the 70D not.

especially as i watched my friend doing a similiar test with the same result.


Quote
Lens Rentals.  They have some of the most sophisticated gear of any test site, and know how to use it.  They also test many copies of the same brand and model of gear, so they know when one is different from the other X hundred they tested.


and they test every camera model with every canon lens model in center AF focusing mode?
you know your reply is nonsense?

some 70D owners say their 50D or 60D work flawless with certain lenses... but the 70D not.
i have no reason to call them all liars.

please explain how these people are "experts" and good photographers when they use the 50D/60D but suddenly become clueless noobs when they use the 70D.  :o

Quote
I'd suggest that you take advantage of advice from the many good photographers on this site, and go to some of the premiere test sites and read actual test reports rather than taking posters in forums at face value.

but only as longs as it fits your own opinion i guess.
DXO is not well received under canon users... all their equipment and know-how suprisingly does not change that.  ::)
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 05:22:49 AM by Lightmaster »

Lightmaster

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Re: Canon 70d center focus point -bug- problem
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2014, 04:58:54 AM »
I also why "30-50 percent of cameras in Germany" have this problem....

Hysteria!! :)


The second video should have taken this on much more strongly. This is just nonsense,

1. YOU CANNOT HAND HOLD AN 85 1.2 or 50 1.4 and hit your focus target consistently wide open!

2. YOU CANNOT FOCUS AND RECOMPOSE wide open!  The camera needs to be locked down on a tripod for these tests.

3.  You have to learn A LOT about autofocus to understand how to accurately test your focus.

all done in other tests.. same result: 70D does not focus correctly... 60D does.


Quote
4. You have to learn A LOT about autofocus to understand the different features/settings on auto focus.

so why not enlighten the noobs who have this problem?
why is it so much harder to focus with the 70D and certain lenses in AF center point mode... compared to, for example, the 60D or 50D?

i don´t have the 70D but a friend showed me the issues with his 24mm f1.4... i saw no fault in his test setup.

tripod, fixed target, same light conditions. what can an AF system ask for more?
60D was able to find the point of sharpest focus every time.
the 70D not, but with contrast AF the 70D was fine.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 05:06:09 AM by Lightmaster »

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Re: Canon 70d center focus point -bug- problem
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2014, 04:58:54 AM »