August 01, 2014, 11:09:00 AM

Author Topic: Canon Working on Faster f/2.8 Ultra Wide Zoom [CR2]  (Read 10710 times)

rrcphoto

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 51
    • View Profile
Re: Canon Working on Faster f/2.8 Ultra Wide Zoom [CR2]
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2014, 02:27:54 PM »

Isn't there generally a patent that surfaces a few months before a lens is announced and then ships?

Have there been any patents by Canon that correlate with this range/aperture?

Quite many actually AFAIK. I've seen many patents and rumors about either 14-24/2.8 or even 12-24/2.8 on this web past few months/years.

I've seen rumors, and the continual link of one patent which doesn't have a 14-24/2.8 embodiment at all with it.

so i'd be curious on these many patents.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon Working on Faster f/2.8 Ultra Wide Zoom [CR2]
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2014, 02:27:54 PM »

rrcphoto

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 51
    • View Profile
Re: Canon Working on Faster f/2.8 Ultra Wide Zoom [CR2]
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2014, 02:29:16 PM »
Does this mean no 16-35 f/2.8 III?

Impossible to predict. It's a favorite photo journalism lens, probably much more practical than the 12-24 range. And future high ISO improvements may make an update to the f/2.8 even less relevant.
Long term, I would think:

1.   12-24 (or 14-24) f/2.8L 
2.   16-35 f/4L IS  (the 17-40 f/4L is a goner I think)
3.   16-35 f/2.8L III (I tend to think there'll be an update)

I think there's room for all three zooms, and if push came to shove I would probably favor an optically excellent 16-35 2.8L III over an optically excellent 16-35 f/4L IS.  But I'd prefer an optically excellent 16-35 f/4L IS over the less-than-excellent 16-35 f/2.8L II (which I currently own, and love).   The 14 f/2.8L II may not see another update.

I could see this more than i could see the 16-35/2.8 being dropped from the lens lineup - this is a very useful lens that accepts filters.

sagittariansrock

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1176
    • View Profile
Re: Canon Working on Faster f/2.8 Ultra Wide Zoom [CR2]
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2014, 02:30:28 PM »
Does this mean no 16-35 f/2.8 III?

Impossible to predict. It's a favorite photo journalism lens, probably much more practical than the 12-24 range. And future high ISO improvements may make an update to the f/2.8 even less relevant.
Long term, I would think:

1.   12-24 (or 14-24) f/2.8L 
2.   16-35 f/4L IS  (the 17-40 f/4L is a goner I think)
3.   16-35 f/2.8L III (I tend to think there'll be an update)

I think there's room for all three zooms, and if push came to shove I would probably favor an optically excellent 16-35 2.8L III over an optically excellent 16-35 f/4L IS.  But I'd prefer an optically excellent 16-35 f/4L IS over the less-than-excellent 16-35 f/2.8L II (which I currently own, and love).   The 14 f/2.8L II may not see another update.

I think the 17-40L will stay, and so will the 16-35 II. The 12/4-24 and 16-35 will be additions.
EOS 5DIII, EOS 5D | Rokinon 14mm f/2.8, TS-E 17mm f/4L, EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM, EF 35mm f/1.4L USM, EF 40mm f/2.8 STM, EF 50mm f/1.4 USM, EF 135mm f/2L USM, EF 70-200 f/2.8L IS II USM, 1.4x III, 2x III | 600-EX-RT x3

rrcphoto

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 51
    • View Profile
Re: Canon Working on Faster f/2.8 Ultra Wide Zoom [CR2]
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2014, 02:32:08 PM »
Does this mean no 16-35 f/2.8 III?

Impossible to predict. It's a favorite photo journalism lens, probably much more practical than the 12-24 range. And future high ISO improvements may make an update to the f/2.8 even less relevant.
Long term, I would think:

1.   12-24 (or 14-24) f/2.8L 
2.   16-35 f/4L IS  (the 17-40 f/4L is a goner I think)
3.   16-35 f/2.8L III (I tend to think there'll be an update)

I think there's room for all three zooms, and if push came to shove I would probably favor an optically excellent 16-35 2.8L III over an optically excellent 16-35 f/4L IS.  But I'd prefer an optically excellent 16-35 f/4L IS over the less-than-excellent 16-35 f/2.8L II (which I currently own, and love).   The 14 f/2.8L II may not see another update.

I think the 17-40L will stay, and so will the 16-35 II. The 12/4-24 and 16-35 will be additions.

same.

with the 17-40 and the 24-105 sticking around, canon doesn't have to create any cheap consumer lenses for full frame for now.

C-mon

  • SX50 HS
  • **
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Canon Working on Faster f/2.8 Ultra Wide Zoom [CR2]
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2014, 03:33:51 PM »
In the US the prices maybe close but in Europe they are not £ 1,199 for the 16-35mm f4L and £ 629 for the 17-40mm f4L thats a big difference. Interestingly the 16-35mm f2.8 II is £ 1,214 only £ 15.00 more ($ 25)
Go figure European pricing!

Compare that to the B&H prices which are $ 1,699 for the 16-35mm f4L and $ 839 for the 17-40mm f4L

I have checked German prices and they are from 1249 EUR for 16-35 f2.8L II and 1019 EUR for 16-35 for f4.0L (preorder, I expect that the price will drop under 1000 EUR soon) with VAT.

Etienne

  • 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 567
    • View Profile
    • Photography by Steve Brule
Re: Canon Working on Faster f/2.8 Ultra Wide Zoom [CR2]
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2014, 04:44:48 PM »
Does this mean no 16-35 f/2.8 III?

Impossible to predict. It's a favorite photo journalism lens, probably much more practical than the 12-24 range. And future high ISO improvements may make an update to the f/2.8 even less relevant.
Long term, I would think:

1.   12-24 (or 14-24) f/2.8L 
2.   16-35 f/4L IS  (the 17-40 f/4L is a goner I think)
3.   16-35 f/2.8L III (I tend to think there'll be an update)

I think there's room for all three zooms, and if push came to shove I would probably favor an optically excellent 16-35 2.8L III over an optically excellent 16-35 f/4L IS.  But I'd prefer an optically excellent 16-35 f/4L IS over the less-than-excellent 16-35 f/2.8L II (which I currently own, and love).   The 14 f/2.8L II may not see another update.

I think the 17-40L will stay, and so will the 16-35 II. The 12/4-24 and 16-35 will be additions.

same.

with the 17-40 and the 24-105 sticking around, canon doesn't have to create any cheap consumer lenses for full frame for now.

They won't disappear immediately, but I can't see either the 17-40 or the 24-105 sticking around too much longer. I have a 24-105, but if I was buying today, I'd get the 24-70 f/4L IS over the 24-105. The new lenses are much better, why not pay a few extra $

unfocused

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1926
    • View Profile
    • Unfocused: A photo website
Re: Canon Working on Faster f/2.8 Ultra Wide Zoom [CR2]
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2014, 05:34:11 PM »

They won't disappear immediately, but I can't see either the 17-40 or the 24-105 sticking around too much longer. I have a 24-105, but if I was buying today, I'd get the 24-70 f/4L IS over the 24-105. The new lenses are much better, why not pay a few extra $

Possibly because they are more versatile. For me, 24-70 is just too short for a decent walk all-around lens to keep on the camera most of the time. The 16-35 is pretty close to 17-40, so that may not be as much of an issue. But, still, 40mm can come a lot closer to serving as a "normal" lens than 35mm.

I agree with others who have said they like a little overlap on their lenses, so there isn't as much switching needed when you're out and about.

I guess it just depends on what your individual needs and preferences are, but Canon does seem to like to keep a lot of lenses in their lineup. I suspect that at this point the 24-105mm, 17-40mm, 70-200 f4 non-IS, 100-400, 300 f4, etc. etc. are cash cows that contribute to the bottom line well above their pay grade.
pictures sharp. life not so much. www.unfocusedmg.com

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon Working on Faster f/2.8 Ultra Wide Zoom [CR2]
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2014, 05:34:11 PM »

sagittariansrock

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1176
    • View Profile
Re: Canon Working on Faster f/2.8 Ultra Wide Zoom [CR2]
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2014, 06:34:23 PM »
Does this mean no 16-35 f/2.8 III?

Impossible to predict. It's a favorite photo journalism lens, probably much more practical than the 12-24 range. And future high ISO improvements may make an update to the f/2.8 even less relevant.
Long term, I would think:

1.   12-24 (or 14-24) f/2.8L 
2.   16-35 f/4L IS  (the 17-40 f/4L is a goner I think)
3.   16-35 f/2.8L III (I tend to think there'll be an update)

I think there's room for all three zooms, and if push came to shove I would probably favor an optically excellent 16-35 2.8L III over an optically excellent 16-35 f/4L IS.  But I'd prefer an optically excellent 16-35 f/4L IS over the less-than-excellent 16-35 f/2.8L II (which I currently own, and love).   The 14 f/2.8L II may not see another update.

I think the 17-40L will stay, and so will the 16-35 II. The 12/4-24 and 16-35 will be additions.

same.

with the 17-40 and the 24-105 sticking around, canon doesn't have to create any cheap consumer lenses for full frame for now.

They won't disappear immediately, but I can't see either the 17-40 or the 24-105 sticking around too much longer. I have a 24-105, but if I was buying today, I'd get the 24-70 f/4L IS over the 24-105. The new lenses are much better, why not pay a few extra $

Think 70-200 non-IS vs IS. Many might not NEED the improved IQ or IS, and the price point is important. I do see the 17-40L getting a bit cheaper, btw.
EOS 5DIII, EOS 5D | Rokinon 14mm f/2.8, TS-E 17mm f/4L, EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM, EF 35mm f/1.4L USM, EF 40mm f/2.8 STM, EF 50mm f/1.4 USM, EF 135mm f/2L USM, EF 70-200 f/2.8L IS II USM, 1.4x III, 2x III | 600-EX-RT x3

Ruined

  • 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 537
    • View Profile
Re: Canon Working on Faster f/2.8 Ultra Wide Zoom [CR2]
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2014, 06:40:29 PM »
I know there is a lot of interest in a revamp of the 16-35 f/2.8 II that has the same IQ as the 24-70 f/2.8 II.

I really don't think it is going to happen anytime remotely soon though, and here is why:

Time between 24-70 I and 24-70 II: 10 years
24-70 I designed in 2002.
24-70 II increased size of front element, and total number of elements
Difference?  Massive.

Time between 16-35 I and 16-35 II: 6 years
16-35 I designed in 2001.
16-35 II increased size of front element, total number of groups and elements, new coatings, etc
Difference? Only somewhat better, nowhere near the improvement 24-70 made.
16-35 II is 7 years old.

Given that the 16-35 II is a fairly recent design, being released the same year as the jaw-dropping 85L II, and the fact that ver2 was not largely better than ver1 despite larger front element, more total elements, new coatings, etc - indicates to me that 16-35mm f/2.8 is extremely difficult to get super sharpness from the wide end without a bulbous element.  Every example of a similar zoom range I've heard people trumpet as being super sharp had that bulbous element.

IMO, for reportage and event photography a bulbous element is undesirable.  It sticks out and is not able to handle as much rough and tough action as a regular lens; you don't even have the option of attaching a protective. People/objects banging into your camera and all.  And if you use them, no screw in ND filters or CPL with a bulbous either, instead requiring a contraption for ND filters.

So while a 16-35 f/2.8 with much better performance is likely possible, it likely would also require a bulbous front element.  The minimal improvement despite the size increase and number of elements increased between v1 and v2 makes it look to me that that sort of design is getting near as good as it gets.

If anyone can point to a non-bulbous 16-35 f/2.8 that destroys the 16-35 II in image quality, I would be interested in seeing it.  If not, that might be your answer right there.

A lineup that would make sense to me:


17-40 f/4 - Budget
16-35 f/4 IS - Landscape photography
16-35 f/2.8 II - Event photography/reportage
14-24 f/2.8 (or 12-24) w/ bulbous element - Extreme landscape photography


If Canon came out with a 16-35 III, even if it looked as good as the Nikon 14-24 I'm sure some landscape photographers would be disappointed because it didn't go as wide...  So I think that would be a bigger hit than a 16-35 III.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2014, 06:51:00 PM by Ruined »

ME

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 71
    • View Profile
Re: Canon Working on Faster f/2.8 Ultra Wide Zoom [CR2]
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2014, 06:49:16 PM »
After reading for ages I took now the time to register and would like to ask:

Does [CR2] also apply to "a higher megapixel full frame prosumer camera body" - and what could that be?

This forum is so full of inspiration regarding photography - thank you all.

Thomas

I too am curious about the new camera portion of that statement. I am thinking that since the lens release is (supposedly) dependent on the release of the new camera, then the camera release is a CR2 also. But who knows. I am more interested in the new camera portion of that rumor than the new lens release. Like you, I dont know how seriously to take that statement. Welcome to CR :)
5DII,50D,Canon|Sigma|Zeiss|Samyang|LENSES
http://www.flickr.com/photos/iveseenthelight/

wickidwombat

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 4434
    • View Profile
Re: Canon Working on Faster f/2.8 Ultra Wide Zoom [CR2]
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2014, 06:59:09 PM »
16-35 f2.8 IS

please put IS on some fast glass is that too much to ask?
APS-H Fanboy

Etienne

  • 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 567
    • View Profile
    • Photography by Steve Brule
Re: Canon Working on Faster f/2.8 Ultra Wide Zoom [CR2]
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2014, 07:00:23 PM »
I know there is a lot of interest in a revamp of the 16-35 f/2.8 II that has the same IQ as the 24-70 f/2.8 II.

I really don't think it is going to happen anytime remotely soon though, and here is why:

Time between 24-70 I and 24-70 II: 10 years
24-70 I designed in 2002.
24-70 II increased size of front element, and total number of elements
Difference?  Massive.

Time between 16-35 I and 16-35 II: 6 years
16-35 I designed in 2001.
16-35 II increased size of front element, total number of groups and elements, new coatings, etc
Difference? Only somewhat better, nowhere near the improvement 24-70 made.
16-35 II is 7 years old.

Given that the 16-35 II is a fairly recent design, being released the same year as the jaw-dropping 85L II, and the fact that ver2 was not largely better than ver1 despite larger front element, more total elements, new coatings, etc - indicates to me that 16-35mm f/2.8 is extremely difficult to get super sharpness from the wide end without a bulbous element.  Every example of a similar zoom range I've heard people trumpet as being super sharp had that bulbous element.

IMO, for reportage and event photography a bulbous element is undesirable.  It sticks out and is not able to handle as much rough and tough action as a regular lens; you don't even have the option of attaching a protective. People/objects banging into your camera and all.  And if you use them, no screw in ND filters or CPL with a bulbous either, instead requiring a contraption for ND filters.

So while a 16-35 f/2.8 with much better performance is likely possible, it likely would also require a bulbous front element.  The minimal improvement despite the size increase and number of elements increased between v1 and v2 makes it look to me that that sort of design is getting near as good as it gets.

If anyone can point to a non-bulbous 16-35 f/2.8 that destroys the 16-35 II in image quality, I would be interested in seeing it.  If not, that might be your answer right there.

A lineup that would make sense to me:


17-40 f/4 - Budget
16-35 f/4 IS - Landscape photography
16-35 f/2.8 II - Event photography/reportage
14-24 f/2.8 (or 12-24) w/ bulbous element - Extreme landscape photography


If Canon came out with a 16-35 III, even if it looked as good as the Nikon 14-24 I'm sure some landscape photographers would be disappointed because it didn't go as wide...  So I think that would be a bigger hit than a 16-35 III.
I don't know why an f/4 lens can get great mtf results without a bulbous lens, but an f/2.8 would need a bulbous front. At 16mm the angles are the same. .. but I don't design lenses, you might be right.  Anyway is good to have choices,  but the new 16-35mm looks like it will produce sharper more contrasty shots than either of the existing lenses

Ruined

  • 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 537
    • View Profile
Re: Canon Working on Faster f/2.8 Ultra Wide Zoom [CR2]
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2014, 08:03:14 PM »
I don't know why an f/4 lens can get great mtf results without a bulbous lens, but an f/2.8 would need a bulbous front. At 16mm the angles are the same. .. but I don't design lenses, you might be right.  Anyway is good to have choices,  but the new 16-35mm looks like it will produce sharper more contrasty shots than either of the existing lenses

Just worth pointing out, Nikon has the same deal.

16-35 f/4 VR - sharp
17-35 f/2.8 (flat) - weak corners (actually worse than Canon's corners with more CA).
14-24 f/2.8 (bulbous) - sharp

Also other third party f/2.8 lenses I've heard people compare the 16-35 II to that are sharper with similar range have been bulbous.

I am not a lens designer either but a trend appears to have formed.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2014, 08:09:38 PM by Ruined »

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon Working on Faster f/2.8 Ultra Wide Zoom [CR2]
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2014, 08:03:14 PM »

timcz

  • Power Shot G16
  • **
  • Posts: 17
    • View Profile
Re: Canon Working on Faster f/2.8 Ultra Wide Zoom [CR2]
« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2014, 08:49:45 PM »
Sounds like we will get something pretty similar to Nikons current lineup then. My guess will be the two new lenses, and the 16-35 II prob sticking around for the more event/PJ stuff (where the corners probably dont matter as much).

Im more interested in the "higher mp prosumer body"

sanj

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1449
    • View Profile
Re: Canon Working on Faster f/2.8 Ultra Wide Zoom [CR2]
« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2014, 10:42:53 PM »
For travel landscape shooting, the 16-35 4L IS is perfect. The IS makes hand held slow shutter speed and low ISO possible which is great. For serious landscape work, really should be looking at the TS-E or Zeiss lenses. For event and photojournalism, the new 2.8 would be the choice to stop the motion.

16-35 IS promises to be great for the most serious of the serious landscape work. At f8 I urge you to show me any difference between the Canon and any other lens.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon Working on Faster f/2.8 Ultra Wide Zoom [CR2]
« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2014, 10:42:53 PM »