December 21, 2014, 04:53:06 PM

Author Topic: New Nikon D800s... Why?  (Read 5870 times)

sdsr

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 719
    • View Profile
Re: New Nikon D800s... Why?
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2014, 02:08:16 PM »

Even carrying two lines for AA filtering reasons seems nutty.  Is a hardware selectable 'AA filter defeat' feature not possible?  That's an upgrade some folks might actually jump for.

- A

I have no idea, but i'm pretty sure the newisih Pentax K3 has the reverse - it has no AA filter, but you can select an AA filter simulator if you want.  Presumably reviews discuss whether it works.... 

canon rumors FORUM

Re: New Nikon D800s... Why?
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2014, 02:08:16 PM »

MLfan3

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 119
    • View Profile
Re: New Nikon D800s... Why?
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2014, 03:02:50 PM »
it wont sell as well as the first D800E model since there is now A7R ,which has the better sensor and better video.
I sold my D800E for another A7R and 6D.  the time for the high resolution D-SLR is over. for high resolution studio, landscape or architecture work, we do not need the D-SLR AF and we tend to use it on a tripod LV manual focus,etc.  if we work  slowly on a tripod, then there is no need for the annoying loud mirror.  in other words , we will not see many wanna-be a MFDB kind of FF D-SLRs any more but many high resolution pro level mirrorless cameras like the A7R.   I think only high ISO low light cameras still need the mirror (for the decent fast PDAF) at least the sensor based PD AF gets as fast as the pro level D-SLR AF.   
for anything else the mirror is not needed, in fact it is better without it.   

btw, Sony may not want to sell this new 36mp sensor to Nikon since Sony has already gained significant market share in Australia, China , HK , South Korea , UK and Japan, and it is expecting to become no2 in camera by end of this year.  in fact , in HK, South Korea and Australia Sony is already no1 in digital camera. so Nikon has no chance gaining its market share but it will lose a lot of share in the rest of the world too. 

drjlo

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 662
    • View Profile
Re: New Nikon D800s... Why?
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2014, 07:53:57 PM »
The Nikon "S" models with incremental change must be kind of a bumber for those who own the pre-S models which are no longer latest and greatest (D800, D800E, D600, D4, etc).  On the other hand, I would welcome the price drop I expect to see for Nikon D800E on fleeBay.

New means a newer latest and greatest, sure, but if the new offering isn't super impactful:

for every 'look at me with the latest and greatest' enthusiast-in-a-forum shooter, there are likely a higher number of pros rolling their eyes at that mentality.

Do you really expect D800/D800E prices to plummet when those cameras may be 98% as powerful/useful as the new offering? 

I think your point and my point are similar.  I expect those must-have-latest "enthusiast-in-a-forum shooters" WILL indeed put their D800E on eBay, and regardless of what studio pro's do, there will be a lot more D800E's up for sale, and prices will surely drop. 

D800E isn't worth it to me at full/near-full price, but if I can pick up a used one at a very good price without the bidding war driving up auction prices, it's a different story.   8)

9VIII

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 681
    • View Profile
Re: New Nikon D800s... Why?
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2014, 10:59:29 PM »
GPS but no Wi-Fi? They have got to be kidding.

I would love a D800E for macro, but it needs to run remotely off a tablet. And not have live view that sucks.
-100% RAW-

ahsanford

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1069
    • View Profile
Re: New Nikon D800s... Why?
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2014, 01:01:16 AM »
GPS but no Wi-Fi? They have got to be kidding.

I would love a D800E for macro, but it needs to run remotely off a tablet. And not have live view that sucks.

Yeah, I still don't get why GPS is prized so much over wifi.  I presume pro-style magnesium bodies may have transmission / interference problems (possibly explaining why the more budget plastic bodies get wifi first), but that's not my area of engineering expertise so I'll await Neuro to give me the answer.   :D

- A

9VIII

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 681
    • View Profile
Re: New Nikon D800s... Why?
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2014, 03:29:15 PM »
That's just the it, Canon had to put a plastic top plate on the 6D to get a wireless signal through, and GPS isn't magic, the same will apply. The only reason to include one and not the other is to sell a stupid plug-in adapter.
-100% RAW-

gshocked

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 181
    • View Profile
Re: New Nikon D800s... Why?
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2014, 05:29:12 PM »
It may also be that Nikon wants to consolidate the current D800 and D800E into one camera.  It really did not make sense for Nikon to have both the 800 and 800E and perhaps by coming out with a "new" D800S instead of producing two separate but almost identical bodies is cheaper and a better business decision.

Very few people who currently have the D800 or D800 will be buying this new D800S unless they were already planning on getting another one.  It just does not seem to be a good upgrade worth the money.  Now if someone wants to move from a crop to a FF camera, going directly to the D800S makes sense.

ONe of the biggest differences is the incorporation of Wi-Fi which is of interest to some photographers but not to others.  It will be interesting to see how well the WiFi works pushing out 41mb data files.  Thats a lotta data!

+1

It never made sense to me why Nikon made a D800 and an D800e.
From a consumers point of view it doesn't inspire confidence in the brand. Considering this If you just purchased a new D800 at the start of the year, it makes you wonder why your top of the line camera was replaced.
Is there something wrong with the current D800, is this like the D600 being replaced by the D610?

Or from a different perspective - it might put the D800 one up from the 5D3, as the the "newer"must have item.
It then repositions Nikon, to some consumers, as being the innovative company. While to others it screams new money machine.



canon rumors FORUM

Re: New Nikon D800s... Why?
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2014, 05:29:12 PM »

ahsanford

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1069
    • View Profile
Re: New Nikon D800s... Why?
« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2014, 06:03:35 PM »
It never made sense to me why Nikon made a D800 and an D800e.
From a consumers point of view it doesn't inspire confidence in the brand. Considering this If you just purchased a new D800 at the start of the year, it makes you wonder why your top of the line camera was replaced.
Is there something wrong with the current D800, is this like the D600 being replaced by the D610?

Or from a different perspective - it might put the D800 one up from the 5D3, as the the "newer"must have item.
It then repositions Nikon, to some consumers, as being the innovative company. While to others it screams new money machine.

Or, maybe, Nikon is taking the iPhone approach of:

iPhone 4 = New body, new design, new screen
iPhone 4S = Same body, same design, same screen, better speed / better battery / Siri
iPhone 5 = New body, new design, new screen
iPhone 5S = Same body, same design, same screen, better speed / better battery / thumbprint ID feature

I say that as it's easy for us to tune out a new release with the same sensor as an older design, but if the 'mid-generation refresh' offers a ton of value, people might bite at the offer.

What if, in some alternate universe, Canon took on a similar approach:

5D3 released at time zero: new sensor, new body, headphone jack, etc. but had the old 5D2 AF system
5D4 released at 12 months with everything the same but now offering the 1DX AF system
5D5 released at 24 months with everything the same as the 5D4 but now with WiFi GPS built-in
5D6 released at 36 months with everything the same as the 5D5 but now with a much faster processor and much larger buffer for burst shooting, or a special/improved uncompressed video output
5D7 released at 48 months with a fundamentally new body design and new sensor.

I imagine less people would have opted in for the 5D3 if Canon did this, but everyone would have one by the end of the 5D3-5D6 body lifecycle.

Neither Canon nor Nikon's methods are right or wrong, they are just different approaches to commercialization.  My gut is that Canon prefers making many more of the exact same body for a longer period of time for the following reasons:

  • Smaller excess/obsolescence than if they had a boatload of regular upgraded offerings
  • Total marketing dollars are smaller as they only have to launch the system once
  • The chance to upcharge folks with bolt-on upgrades for Wifi, GPS, etc.

While Nikon -- at least in the higher end bodies -- would rather sprinkle a mix of new bodies and upgraded bodies with the same sensor.  Again, I don't think either is right or wrong -- I just find the strategies fascinating.

- A

dilbert

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • ********
  • Posts: 3291
    • View Profile
Re: New Nikon D800s... Why?
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2014, 01:47:05 PM »
Yeah, I still don't get why GPS is prized so much over wifi.  I presume pro-style magnesium bodies may have transmission / interference problems (possibly explaining why the more budget plastic bodies get wifi first), but that's not my area of engineering expertise so I'll await Neuro to give me the answer.   :D

Because when you're on safari in Africa and take a photo of a lion jumping an elephant, you know where it was and so on.

Sella174

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 793
  • So there!
    • View Profile
Re: New Nikon D800s... Why?
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2014, 11:57:06 AM »
I don't think the D800s is meant to be a new camera design, but rather (as some have said) an update model with new features added. You know, like we used to get with cars ...
Happily ignoring the laws of physics and the rules of photography to create better pictures.

rs

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 694
    • View Profile
Re: New Nikon D800s... Why?
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2014, 10:58:45 AM »
It looks like it's going to be announced imminently, and named the D810:

http://nikonrumors.com/2014/06/24/nikon-d810-announcement-this-week.aspx/

Without meaning to repeat a question from earlier on in this thread - why?
5D II | 24-70 II | 70-200 II | 100L | 40 | Sigma 50/1.4 | 40D | 10-22 | 17-55 | 580 EX II | 1.4x TC II

AcutancePhotography

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1202
    • View Profile
Re: New Nikon D800s... Why?
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2014, 11:33:37 AM »
It never made sense to me why Nikon made a D800 and an D800e.

I don't think Nikon thought they would sell as many D800E's as they did.  I think they expected the majority of the D800 buyers to buy the D800 and only a relatively few buy the D800E.  I still think that Nikon sold more D800's than D800E's, but I also think the sales of the D800E was higher than expected.

I shoot with a Camera Obscura with an optical device attached that refracts and transmits light

ahsanford

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1069
    • View Profile
Re: New Nikon D800s... Why?
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2014, 12:26:38 PM »
It never made sense to me why Nikon made a D800 and an D800e.

I don't think Nikon thought they would sell as many D800E's as they did.  I think they expected the majority of the D800 buyers to buy the D800 and only a relatively few buy the D800E.  I still think that Nikon sold more D800's than D800E's, but I also think the sales of the D800E was higher than expected.

So was this representative of the mix of still vs. video shooters they have, i.e. is Nikon's user base more concerned about sharpness than moire?  Do they simply lack a large video user base?

I wonder if a 5D3E -- a 5D3 without an AA filter -- was offered by Canon on day one alongside the 5D3, would we see all the videographers take the vanilla 5D3 and the still shooters all take the 5D3E?

Is it that simple a call?  Are there downsides to pulling the AA filter other than moire?  (Forgive me: the role of the AA filter is lost on me.)

- A

canon rumors FORUM

Re: New Nikon D800s... Why?
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2014, 12:26:38 PM »

Bruce Photography

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 207
  • Landscapes, 5DX,7D,60D,EOSM,D800/E,D810,D7100
    • View Profile
Re: New Nikon D800s... Why?
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2014, 01:08:26 PM »
New Nikon D800s... Why (in a forum named EOS Bodies)?

It's a development pipeline discussion, not a Nikon discussion.   :P
- A

I would love it to be about a Canon release for a new high MP body (I do landscapes and seascapes), but from what I've read, 2015 will be the earliest that we can have that discussion.  So I'm interested in the 810 because of the newer processor.  I'm hoping for a larger buffer so I can finally get continuous shooting at the top frame rate of 6 fps.  I know that doesn't mean much in the Canon lineup but to have 6 fps (with battery grip) and 36mp, that is a 50% improvement over what I have today.  I don't use it very often at the top speed (birds), but then speed of shooting is important sometimes.  Since the specs really haven't been released I suppose this is a premature discussion, but I like to have a general knowledge of what both (all) sides for upper end cameras are doing because that will be where the industry is heading.  More dynamic range also seems to be the trend that I welcome even though I am quite pleased with what the D800 and D800E already have.  The elimination of the AA filter on high MP cameras seems to be another trend that we'll see in future cameras.  I have shot extensively with both the D800 and the D800E.  I do see the difference in my large prints when I do everything right.  Elimination of the AA filter on high MP cameras does seem like a good thing (be sure to do capture sharpening to see the effect, otherwise you'll miss it).  If Canon comes up with this new 54 mp camera rumored to be a new Sony sensor this fall in Germany, then we can all talk about that.
 
 
« Last Edit: June 25, 2014, 01:17:49 PM by Bruce Photography »

Zv

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1320
    • View Profile
    • Zeeography (flickr)
Re: New Nikon D800s... Why?
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2014, 01:17:12 PM »
It never made sense to me why Nikon made a D800 and an D800e.

I don't think Nikon thought they would sell as many D800E's as they did.  I think they expected the majority of the D800 buyers to buy the D800 and only a relatively few buy the D800E.  I still think that Nikon sold more D800's than D800E's, but I also think the sales of the D800E was higher than expected.

So was this representative of the mix of still vs. video shooters they have, i.e. is Nikon's user base more concerned about sharpness than moire?  Do they simply lack a large video user base?

I wonder if a 5D3E -- a 5D3 without an AA filter -- was offered by Canon on day one alongside the 5D3, would we see all the videographers take the vanilla 5D3 and the still shooters all take the 5D3E?

Is it that simple a call?  Are there downsides to pulling the AA filter other than moire?  (Forgive me: the role of the AA filter is lost on me.)

- A

Moire can be found in various architechtural detail, certain clothing and in animal fur and feathers. It's not just video. It affects stills too. Although it's possible to reduce moire in post it can be tricky at best (well I certainly don't find it easy). It has to be removed selectively using a brush tool. Takes ages if all you want is a standard shot of say a brick house. Imagine de-moire-ing a hundred architectural shots. Two words. F--- that!

It's much easier to simply crank up the sharpness in post to compensate for the blurriness of the AA filter. RAW shooters do that anyway as part of their workflow.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2014, 01:27:29 PM by Zv »
6D | 17-40L | 24-105L | 70-200 f4L IS | 135L | SY 14 2.8 | Sigma 50 1.4

EOS M | 11-22 IS STM | 22 STM | FD 50 1.4

canon rumors FORUM

Re: New Nikon D800s... Why?
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2014, 01:17:12 PM »