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Author Topic: EF 24-70 f/2.8L Replacement [CR2]  (Read 21646 times)

Richard

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Re: EF 24-70 f/2.8L Replacement [CR2]
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2010, 08:22:22 PM »
I shutter to think of the price this will command. With the change in the exchange rate in the US Dollar vs. Yen, we are in for some sticker shock. My guess is we will be HAPPY for this to come in under 2K. Can't blame Canon, since they get profits in the end as Yen, and math is math. 

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Re: EF 24-70 f/2.8L Replacement [CR2]
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2010, 08:22:22 PM »

Justin

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Re: EF 24-70 f/2.8L Replacement [CR2]
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2010, 10:56:19 AM »
I hear you but if it is stellar optic it will maintain its value well and will last for years and years. I don't mind paying 50% more for a lens that is 50% better. I think it's fair.

I shutter to think of the price this will command. With the change in the exchange rate in the US Dollar vs. Yen, we are in for some sticker shock. My guess is we will be HAPPY for this to come in under 2K. Can't blame Canon, since they get profits in the end as Yen, and math is math.

pgabor

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Re: EF 24-70 f/2.8L Replacement [CR2]
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2010, 04:55:15 PM »
I hear you but if it is stellar optic it will maintain its value well and will last for years and years. I don't mind paying 50% more for a lens that is 50% better. I think it's fair.

+1

RogerC

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Re: EF 24-70 f/2.8L Replacement [CR2]
« Reply #18 on: September 30, 2010, 06:24:54 PM »
This lens will be expensive. Canon has to make it very attractive to justify a purchase or upgrade. To a lot of people this lens is already perfectly adequate. So one asks what is it that is going to be the deal maker?

lotus

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Re: EF 24-70 f/2.8L Replacement [CR2]
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2010, 08:31:16 PM »
CR Guy

Any word or estimates of when the October rebates on Canon Gear will kick in? It has been 22,19,18 Oct in the past. Can we expect something similar?

I am thinking I can save some money on a 7D and some older L Lens.

Thanks!  8)


ablearcher

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Re: EF 24-70 f/2.8L Replacement [CR2]
« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2010, 11:37:41 AM »
I might consider the new one for outdoor location shoots. However, at this point I prefer primes for low light and better background blur (and a better IQ in general). Also, 24-70 feels kinda short for studio work (I'm happy I went with 24-105L for that). But 24-70 will work well with 70-200 for weddings and location shoots on two bodies with good light...
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Justin

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Re: EF 24-70 f/2.8L Replacement [CR2]
« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2010, 06:53:48 PM »
I have to say I am tired of waiting for this lens. I sold my aps-c camera for a 5D2 almost a year ago and had to sell my 17-55 2.8 IS, my favorite lens. At the time I expected that a 24-70 was imminent. Anyone would who followed camera rumors for a few years. Sure I was excited when the 70-200 2.8 successor was launched. Yes I shoot with it all the time, but I find myself making compromises all the time too. I pack the 35 1.4 but only get a clean shot with very careful setup and at anything under 2.8 it's not tack sharp. I have a 24-105 but it leaves something to be desired due to narrow max aperture. Maybe the thing to do is go buy a 7D or a 60D and get the 17-55 back. I really miss this range. I don't want to be without an image stabilized zoom lens any longer. Come on Canon. Release this lens already.

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Re: EF 24-70 f/2.8L Replacement [CR2]
« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2010, 06:53:48 PM »

epsiloneri

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Re: EF 24-70 f/2.8L Replacement [CR2]
« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2010, 08:15:06 PM »
I sold my aps-c camera for a 5D2 almost a year ago and had to sell my 17-55 2.8 IS, my favorite lens.

The 17-55/2.8 IS lens on APS-C @ iso 100 corresponds to 27-88/4.5 on FF @ iso 160 (same exposure, same depth of field, same photon noise), so if you were content with that lens I see no reason you would be less happy with 24-105/4L IS on 5d2.

Justin

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Re: EF 24-70 f/2.8L Replacement [CR2]
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2010, 09:47:15 AM »
I understand your point, but the qualities of these lenses are not equivalent. In terms of sharpness, I have to stop down to f11 on the 24-105 at 70mm to get even close to the 17-55 at the long end. So in other words, and to be fair because I didn't put it in my earlier comment, the wider maximum aperture is not he only thing I am looking for in a standard zoom lens. Yes I want 2.8, because as you suggest it produces very narrow DOF on a full frame camera. But I am looking for a sharp optic as well, in addition to contrasty, punchy, low CAs, minimal distortion, fast focusing output. 

I sold my aps-c camera for a 5D2 almost a year ago and had to sell my 17-55 2.8 IS, my favorite lens.

The 17-55/2.8 IS lens on APS-C @ iso 100 corresponds to 27-88/4.5 on FF @ iso 160 (same exposure, same depth of field, same photon noise), so if you were content with that lens I see no reason you would be less happy with 24-105/4L IS on 5d2.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2010, 03:19:46 PM by Justin »

epsiloneri

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Re: EF 24-70 f/2.8L Replacement [CR2]
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2010, 05:06:33 PM »
In terms of sharpness, I have to stop down to f11 on the 24-105 at 70mm to get even close to the 17-55 at the long end.

That is surprising, I haven't seen complaints on the sharpness of the 24-105/4L IS before (most complaints are about the strong barrel distortion at 24mm). Perhaps you have a bad copy/AF problems? According to MTF measurements by photozone.de, the 24-105/4L on 5D2 should be slightly sharper than 17-55/2.8 on 50D (although the latter is better than 24-105/4L on 50D; this is because of the APS-C 1.6x center resolution disadvantage compared to FF). It also seems the 24-105/4L is at its worst in the corners at 70mm (but still better than 17-55/2.8 at 55mm).

But yes, I'm very fond of my 17-55/2.8 IS lens and, just as you, I'm waiting for a normal F/2.8 zoom with IS to switch to FF (e.g., 24-70/2.8L IS). Even with a good calibrated copy, merely doing "slightly better" is not big enough incentive for me to switch.

epsiloneri

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Re: EF 24-70 f/2.8L Replacement [CR2]
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2010, 07:24:42 PM »
Just FYI Justin, I got access to exactly your setup (5D2+24-105/4L) and took the opportunity to compare it to my 7D+17-55/2.8. Tripod, no IS, with a boring bookshelf as the subject. Manual focusing of centre with live view, remote shutter release with mirror lock up. Focal plane parallel to bookshelf. 24-105/4L @ 70mm (supposedly its worst focal length), 17-55/2.8 @ 44mm (the equivalent). iso 160 and 1s exposure for 5D2, iso 100 and 1s exposure for 7D (gives the same exposure level).

Result: Sharpness about equal in corners, 24-105/4L better in centre.

Then I stepped down the aperture 2 steps (i.e. to 8.0 and 5.6, respectively) and increased exposure time to 4s.

Result: 24-105/4L@8.0 improved corners significantly, and center somewhat, clearly out-resolving the 17-55/2.8@5.6, which didn't improve as much compared to wide open.

Conclusion: The resolution of the 5D2+24-105/4L is no worse than 7D+17-55/2.8, so have no remorse for selling your EF-S lens.

(NB, I can't guarantee that my results are typical, maybe I received a good 24-105/4L copy and a poor 17-55/2.8, but what I find is in line with expectations from MTF measurements)

If you're interested I can find a way to post relevant crops of the images.

neuroanatomist

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Re: EF 24-70 f/2.8L Replacement [CR2]
« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2010, 08:26:56 AM »
But yes, I'm very fond of my 17-55/2.8 IS lens and, just as you, I'm waiting for a normal F/2.8 zoom with IS to switch to FF (e.g., 24-70/2.8L IS).

I also really like my EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS.  But, keep in mind that with the difference between a 1.6x and FF sensor, the 24-105mm f/4L IS actually specs out better on FF than the 17-55mm on 1.6x crop.  With the crop factor applied to aperture (as it does in terms of DoF for the same framing), the FF equivalent of the 17-55mm f/2.8 is 27-88mm f/4.5, so you can see that the 24-105mm f/4 on FF is 3mm wider, 17mm longer, and 1/3-stop faster.  Granted, shutter speed is faster with f/2.8, but since the ISO performance is also improved by 1.33 stops on FF vs. crop, you can get equivalent noise performance and bump to a higher ISO on FF f/4 to maintain the shutter speed you'd have on crop at f/2.8.

So, bottom line, if you are waiting for a 24-70mm f/2.8L IS because you want a FF-equivalent of your 17-55mm IS, you can have that right now as the 24-105mm f/4L IS.   
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Flake

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Re: EF 24-70 f/2.8L Replacement [CR2]
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2010, 05:00:46 PM »
While the effective field of view on a crop camera may be the same as a longer lens on a 35mm, the focal length does not change and therefore neither does the aperture.  A 17 - 55mm lens may give the same FOV as a 27 -88mm but it's still a 17 - 55mm and the relationship between the first element and the focal length remains unchanged as does the aperture.


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Re: EF 24-70 f/2.8L Replacement [CR2]
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2010, 05:00:46 PM »

Macadameane

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Re: EF 24-70 f/2.8L Replacement [CR2]
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2010, 05:19:56 PM »
While the effective field of view on a crop camera may be the same as a longer lens on a 35mm, the focal length does not change and therefore neither does the aperture.  A 17 - 55mm lens may give the same FOV as a 27 -88mm but it's still a 17 - 55mm and the relationship between the first element and the focal length remains unchanged as does the aperture.

You are right, but a FF camera also utilizes more overall light and is more suited for low-light photography and video shooting.  Depth of field also can become thinner on a full frame.  I don't know the technicalities, though, does someone want to shed some light?  It probably is a matter of pixel size and spacing rather than "light gathering".
« Last Edit: October 12, 2010, 05:34:40 PM by Macadameane »

Flake

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Re: EF 24-70 f/2.8L Replacement [CR2]
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2010, 05:37:51 PM »
DOF becomes less because in filling the frame for a portrait the magnification increases therefore lessening the DOF.

In terms of FF working better in lower light the issue is not as simple as some would have us believe, put simply bigger pixel sites.  Unfortunately a larger site does not mean a larger sensitive area or pixel, and then there is the isolation of one pixel from the next which is the cause of some noise.  It is possible to have a large sensor with a small number of MP which is worse in low light than a small one with a higher pixel density.

However if you imagine a light source with a constant brightness (white) a lens with a given aperture will project uniform brightness over all the sensor, hence there is no difference between a FF camera and a crop one.

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Re: EF 24-70 f/2.8L Replacement [CR2]
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2010, 05:37:51 PM »