July 30, 2014, 06:06:19 PM

Author Topic: Preproduction EOS 7D Mark II Cameras in Brazil for World Cup  (Read 21578 times)

Mark D5 TEAM II

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Re: Preproduction EOS 7D Mark II Cameras in Brazil for World Cup
« Reply #105 on: June 12, 2014, 08:43:33 PM »
I have also just watched the opening match between Brazil & Croatia, and for the duration of the match I have seen several times a non-gripped body attached to a Canon long white supertele, there appears to be several photographers with that setup scattered around the stadium. That is mildly interesting to me since I am used to seeing mostly 1-series bodies or (less commonly) the equivalent Nikon ones being used for matches at this level. I really don't think pros sent by wire agencies, big international newspapers and magazines to cover this event would be using 5D3s or, worse, 7Ds. At the very least they should be using a grip for better balance while using those superteles on these smaller bodies, if that's what they have to use, which I doubt.


OT: As for the match itself, I think that Jap referee erred in giving that very soft penalty that led to the 2nd Brazilian goal, that Brazilian player was already falling down even before he got a mild touch from the opposing Croat player. Ruined the game for me. I must say Brazil was unimpressive, I really expect better from the hosts and one of the favorites. They don't seem to be good at keeping possession or defense. I think they would get exposed by a better attacking team than Croatia. Croatia played better than I expected, I actually wanted them to win or at least get a draw, they deserved that at least.
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Re: Preproduction EOS 7D Mark II Cameras in Brazil for World Cup
« Reply #105 on: June 12, 2014, 08:43:33 PM »

Lee Jay

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Re: Preproduction EOS 7D Mark II Cameras in Brazil for World Cup
« Reply #106 on: June 12, 2014, 11:34:28 PM »
Who needs a 24 Mp sensor in an APS-C action camera? 18 Mp is just fine. I would rather have fewer MP and fast throughput than >=24 Mp and leisurely throughput. If I want to watch my files s-l-o-w-l-y write, I can shoot with the Sigma DP#M camera.
It is. I keep looking for someone to convince me that 7D Mark ii need more megapicles than 1Dx. ::)

My primary use for this camera is reach when focal length limited, and for that, the more pixels the better.

Actually, I'd rather have more pixels in a crop body than in a full-frame.  I'm usually able to properly frame when using full frame, I use the crop body when I can't.  When I can properly frame the 13MP of my 5D is fine.  When I can't, sometimes I'm cropping like crazy and the more pixels the better.  And that is nearly always with the crop bodies.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2014, 11:37:27 PM by Lee Jay »

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Re: Preproduction EOS 7D Mark II Cameras in Brazil for World Cup
« Reply #107 on: June 13, 2014, 01:08:10 AM »
Yeah i was watching the press box about as much as the game, always looking for a sign of a 7d. As far as the game Croatia deserved the win based on their play. Got a little rough and ugly at times but that was both sides. Seems like the ref may not get another game just because of that one call in the penalty box.

I have also just watched the opening match between Brazil & Croatia, and for the duration of the match I have seen several times a non-gripped body attached to a Canon long white supertele, there appears to be several photographers with that setup scattered around the stadium. That is mildly interesting to me since I am used to seeing mostly 1-series bodies or (less commonly) the equivalent Nikon ones being used for matches at this level. I really don't think pros sent by wire agencies, big international newspapers and magazines to cover this event would be using 5D3s or, worse, 7Ds. At the very least they should be using a grip for better balance while using those superteles on these smaller bodies, if that's what they have to use, which I doubt.


OT: As for the match itself, I think that Jap referee erred in giving that very soft penalty that led to the 2nd Brazilian goal, that Brazilian player was already falling down even before he got a mild touch from the opposing Croat player. Ruined the game for me. I must say Brazil was unimpressive, I really expect better from the hosts and one of the favorites. They don't seem to be good at keeping possession or defense. I think they would get exposed by a better attacking team than Croatia. Croatia played better than I expected, I actually wanted them to win or at least get a draw, they deserved that at least.

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Re: Preproduction EOS 7D Mark II Cameras in Brazil for World Cup
« Reply #108 on: June 13, 2014, 01:42:43 AM »
... looking for a sign of a 7d.
Maybe you better should be looking for the new 100-400. It should be easier to spot and then there is an 70 - 90 % chance that a 7D2 is attached to the rear end of that one...
« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 02:00:14 AM by Maximilian »
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Re: Preproduction EOS 7D Mark II Cameras in Brazil for World Cup
« Reply #109 on: June 13, 2014, 02:24:40 AM »
... looking for a sign of a 7d.
Maybe you better should be looking for the new 100-400. It should be easier to spot and then there is an 70 - 90 % chance that a 7D2 is attached to the rear end of that one...

I am looking to see England win the World Cup in Brazil as it is more likely than seeing a 100-400II on a 7DII.
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Re: Preproduction EOS 7D Mark II Cameras in Brazil for World Cup
« Reply #110 on: June 13, 2014, 03:41:14 AM »
... looking for a sign of a 7d.
Maybe you better should be looking for the new 100-400. It should be easier to spot and then there is an 70 - 90 % chance that a 7D2 is attached to the rear end of that one...

I am looking to see England win the World Cup in Brazil as it is more likely than seeing a 100-400II on a 7DII.
Honestly I don't think so and the opposite is more likely, but maybe the Three Lions will show us more than expected.
sometimes you have to close your eyes to see properly.

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Re: Preproduction EOS 7D Mark II Cameras in Brazil for World Cup
« Reply #111 on: June 16, 2014, 03:33:34 PM »
Having sophisticated video capabilities in no way diminishes the still capabilities. There is zero reason not to have both with current technology.

as you pointed out in your previous post, video crap does have detrimenal effects on stills cameras. The whole sensor and imaging pipeline and all the R&D going into it are geared towards delivering moving images rather than delivering the most perfect stills images. It makes a hell of a lot of a difference, whether a sensor is designed to record single still images [even in short bursts at high speed] compared to recording freakin' viedeo for minutes to hours on end. Entirely different development objectives. To get both in one sensor, stills capabilities are being compromised. Same goes for the CPU and the rest of the imaging pipeline and resulting stills IQ. And for the entrie user interface. from unnessary marked-in-red "start video now" hardware buttons [not user assignable to something useful] cluttering my stills cameras to cluttered menus with a lot of video crap in them. All the way to those pesty HDMI-sockets, Mic-In sockets, Mic-holes and speaker holes ... that make wheather-sealing of my stills cameras more difficult and expensive. And maximize those flappy rubber-doors all over the nice and pure magnesium body of my stulls cameras.

No problem with convergence products. Go, buy a GoPro Hero ... 4k video, lots of fps, small, light, weather-sealed and dirt cheap. You need more video and don't just want to create freakin' youtube videos of how uncle jack giot drunk last night? Then go, buy "a real video camera". Black magic Design 4k camera costs less than a 5D III. So it cannot be about the money.

But don't stick all that video crap into DSLRs or Mirrorles stills cameras. I don't want it. I don't need it. I hate it.

You overlook the fact that the compromises you talk about within the camera are largely artificial or a function of relatively primitive processors being used. Processor design is advancing much faster than any other component in the system, so that would not be an issue in the future. We already have cameras that can do both functions well, and that trend is going to continue, with absolute certainty in the consumer market. Dedicated cameras in the future will be pretty much the preserve of high end professionals only, where ergonomics will be the dominant criteria.

The only interface ports a video camera "needs" is its data transfer port and a hot shoe, both things you find on still cameras anyway. So how is this "interfering" with weather sealing when those ports have to be there anyway? A video camera needs a battery and preferably some sort of internal storage. Well, so does a stills camera.

When you talk about a dedicated professional video camera, yes, those have all sorts of extra interface connections, but the consumer market does not need those. For them, the EXACT SAME connections than are on a still camera are just as good for a video camera.

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Re: Preproduction EOS 7D Mark II Cameras in Brazil for World Cup
« Reply #111 on: June 16, 2014, 03:33:34 PM »

Tugela

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Re: Preproduction EOS 7D Mark II Cameras in Brazil for World Cup
« Reply #112 on: June 16, 2014, 03:38:12 PM »
The improved processor(s) and high speed memory required for 4K video and DPAF opens up an interesting possibility for the action shooter..... 30fps burst mode in live view....

Interesting indeed. Here's what's most interesting:

Assuming a 24mp sensor, which has a "full" pixel count of say 27mp (including masked border pixels, inactive calibration pixel rows and columns, etc. all of which DO get read and which ARE included in every RAW image). Also assuming the ADC is 14-bit. Then, for a 3-second burst:

(3 * 30 * 27,000,000 * 14) / 8 = 4,252,500,000 bytes

In one three second burst at 30fps, you generate 4.2GB worth of data! :P If you tend to take 3-5 second bursts, and shoot at least a few dozen bursts on any given outing... Well, S___...now those two new 3Tb hard drives I just purchased aren't going to be going very far...and I'm going to need four times as many long-term backup and storage bluray disc for permanent backups...and my import/review/cull time is going to go through the roof...

;) Be careful what you wish for...   :D
:) I know :)
Storage demands are constantly going up.... I remember buying a hard drive for work $9995 for 10Mbytes and my first digital camera shot 640x400 with 8 bit color... Todays camera storage requirements were unthinkable back then.... two days ago I shot a time lapse on a GoPro that sucked back 48GBytes...

The crazy thing is that storage space doesn't seem to be advancing as quickly as it use to anymore. It was quite a number of years ago that we hit 2Tb....then a few years ago that we hit 3Tb, and now only recently have 4Tb drives have begun to become "affordable" (the ones with TERRIBLE access times are still around $150, and the ones with faster access times are still in the $220-$300 range). There are less than a handful of 6Tb drives on the market, and only LaCie seems to be selling 5Tb hard drives...both of which are at lest $300 a pop if not considerably more expensive.

While larger hard drives, all built with the same semi-reliable technology that has been plaguing computer users for decades, trickle slowly onto the market, our data use needs are RAPIDLY growing. As video, especially 4k video, becomes more accessible, I think 48Gb worth of video files is only the beginning! :P And as still image sizes skyrocket to 40, 50, 70 megapixels and beyond... Yeesh...I shudder to think about the costs of storing it all. Cloud services aren't even remotely "there" yet when it comes to space/dollar, and then you have to deal with transferring tens or hundreds of gigs across the wire.

That would be because the need for more storage isn't there for most consumers. And in any case, even if the storage per drive has slowed down, prices have come down a lot as well. The number of SATA ports and drive cages in computers has steadily increased, so for power users who for whatever reason need massive storage (I have two 8x3TB arrays on my network, for example) it is relatively simple to create it.

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Re: Preproduction EOS 7D Mark II Cameras in Brazil for World Cup
« Reply #113 on: June 16, 2014, 05:03:56 PM »
The improved processor(s) and high speed memory required for 4K video and DPAF opens up an interesting possibility for the action shooter..... 30fps burst mode in live view....

Interesting indeed. Here's what's most interesting:

Assuming a 24mp sensor, which has a "full" pixel count of say 27mp (including masked border pixels, inactive calibration pixel rows and columns, etc. all of which DO get read and which ARE included in every RAW image). Also assuming the ADC is 14-bit. Then, for a 3-second burst:

(3 * 30 * 27,000,000 * 14) / 8 = 4,252,500,000 bytes

In one three second burst at 30fps, you generate 4.2GB worth of data! :P If you tend to take 3-5 second bursts, and shoot at least a few dozen bursts on any given outing... Well, S___...now those two new 3Tb hard drives I just purchased aren't going to be going very far...and I'm going to need four times as many long-term backup and storage bluray disc for permanent backups...and my import/review/cull time is going to go through the roof...

;) Be careful what you wish for...   :D
:) I know :)
Storage demands are constantly going up.... I remember buying a hard drive for work $9995 for 10Mbytes and my first digital camera shot 640x400 with 8 bit color... Todays camera storage requirements were unthinkable back then.... two days ago I shot a time lapse on a GoPro that sucked back 48GBytes...

The crazy thing is that storage space doesn't seem to be advancing as quickly as it use to anymore. It was quite a number of years ago that we hit 2Tb....then a few years ago that we hit 3Tb, and now only recently have 4Tb drives have begun to become "affordable" (the ones with TERRIBLE access times are still around $150, and the ones with faster access times are still in the $220-$300 range). There are less than a handful of 6Tb drives on the market, and only LaCie seems to be selling 5Tb hard drives...both of which are at lest $300 a pop if not considerably more expensive.

While larger hard drives, all built with the same semi-reliable technology that has been plaguing computer users for decades, trickle slowly onto the market, our data use needs are RAPIDLY growing. As video, especially 4k video, becomes more accessible, I think 48Gb worth of video files is only the beginning! :P And as still image sizes skyrocket to 40, 50, 70 megapixels and beyond... Yeesh...I shudder to think about the costs of storing it all. Cloud services aren't even remotely "there" yet when it comes to space/dollar, and then you have to deal with transferring tens or hundreds of gigs across the wire.

That would be because the need for more storage isn't there for most consumers. And in any case, even if the storage per drive has slowed down, prices have come down a lot as well. The number of SATA ports and drive cages in computers has steadily increased, so for power users who for whatever reason need massive storage (I have two 8x3TB arrays on my network, for example) it is relatively simple to create it.

Sorry, but when you start creating GIGS of data PER SECOND, even your RAID arrays are not going to suffice. I have I have an 8TB NAS on my own network, however with my shooting patterns, at 30fps, I would create 8TB worth of images in a mere 5643 seconds, which amounts to 94 minutes of shooting. Eight TERRABYTES of data in a mere hour and a half. That is just ludicrous. The cost of storage hasn't come down even remotely fast nor significantly enough to justify cameras with frame rates of 30fps or higher. These days, at 8fps/18mp or 6fps/22.3mp, I can fill four 16GB CF cards in a couple/few of hours on a burst-heavy day (i.e. lots of flight or other action.) That's 64Gb in an outing. That's already a lot of data, and even after culling the guaranteed bad frames (missfocuses, motion blurred, clipped highlights, etc.), that alone is still a fairly significant storage footprint.

Plus, this is all JUST the storage impact. I don't think people realize the overall impact of having ultra high frame rates like that. There is "cost" everywhere...it requires significantly more time to import all your data (even over USB 3.0), it takes significantly more time to organize it, it takes significantly more time to cull it, etc. There is a reasonable point where diminishing returns in frame rate become negative returns in your overall efficiency as a photographer. I believe 30fps is well over that point, and anything faster....well, then your just plain insane! :P
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Re: Preproduction EOS 7D Mark II Cameras in Brazil for World Cup
« Reply #114 on: June 16, 2014, 05:19:22 PM »
Sorry, but when you start creating GIGS of data PER SECOND, even your RAID arrays are not going to suffice. I have I have an 8TB NAS on my own network, however with my shooting patterns, at 30fps, I would create 8TB worth of images in a mere 5643 seconds, which amounts to 94 minutes of shooting. Eight TERRABYTES of data in a mere hour and a half. That is just ludicrous. The cost of storage hasn't come down even remotely fast nor significantly enough to justify cameras with frame rates of 30fps or higher. These days, at 8fps/18mp or 6fps/22.3mp, I can fill four 16GB CF cards in a couple/few of hours on a burst-heavy day (i.e. lots of flight or other action.) That's 64Gb in an outing. That's already a lot of data, and even after culling the guaranteed bad frames (missfocuses, motion blurred, clipped highlights, etc.), that alone is still a fairly significant storage footprint.

Plus, this is all JUST the storage impact. I don't think people realize the overall impact of having ultra high frame rates like that. There is "cost" everywhere...it requires significantly more time to import all your data (even over USB 3.0), it takes significantly more time to organize it, it takes significantly more time to cull it, etc. There is a reasonable point where diminishing returns in frame rate become negative returns in your overall efficiency as a photographer. I believe 30fps is well over that point, and anything faster....well, then your just plain insane! :P
Lots of agreement from me on how fast you can fill hard drives.... I just burned through 270GB in a week. I was playing with time lapse on a GoPro and a 64GB card was insufficient for a day, and that was at the reduced image size...
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Re: Preproduction EOS 7D Mark II Cameras in Brazil for World Cup
« Reply #115 on: June 17, 2014, 02:47:40 PM »
The improved processor(s) and high speed memory required for 4K video and DPAF opens up an interesting possibility for the action shooter..... 30fps burst mode in live view....

Interesting indeed. Here's what's most interesting:

Assuming a 24mp sensor, which has a "full" pixel count of say 27mp (including masked border pixels, inactive calibration pixel rows and columns, etc. all of which DO get read and which ARE included in every RAW image). Also assuming the ADC is 14-bit. Then, for a 3-second burst:

(3 * 30 * 27,000,000 * 14) / 8 = 4,252,500,000 bytes

In one three second burst at 30fps, you generate 4.2GB worth of data! :P If you tend to take 3-5 second bursts, and shoot at least a few dozen bursts on any given outing... Well, S___...now those two new 3Tb hard drives I just purchased aren't going to be going very far...and I'm going to need four times as many long-term backup and storage bluray disc for permanent backups...and my import/review/cull time is going to go through the roof...

;) Be careful what you wish for...   :D
:) I know :)
Storage demands are constantly going up.... I remember buying a hard drive for work $9995 for 10Mbytes and my first digital camera shot 640x400 with 8 bit color... Todays camera storage requirements were unthinkable back then.... two days ago I shot a time lapse on a GoPro that sucked back 48GBytes...

The crazy thing is that storage space doesn't seem to be advancing as quickly as it use to anymore. It was quite a number of years ago that we hit 2Tb....then a few years ago that we hit 3Tb, and now only recently have 4Tb drives have begun to become "affordable" (the ones with TERRIBLE access times are still around $150, and the ones with faster access times are still in the $220-$300 range). There are less than a handful of 6Tb drives on the market, and only LaCie seems to be selling 5Tb hard drives...both of which are at lest $300 a pop if not considerably more expensive.

While larger hard drives, all built with the same semi-reliable technology that has been plaguing computer users for decades, trickle slowly onto the market, our data use needs are RAPIDLY growing. As video, especially 4k video, becomes more accessible, I think 48Gb worth of video files is only the beginning! :P And as still image sizes skyrocket to 40, 50, 70 megapixels and beyond... Yeesh...I shudder to think about the costs of storing it all. Cloud services aren't even remotely "there" yet when it comes to space/dollar, and then you have to deal with transferring tens or hundreds of gigs across the wire.

Yeah I really wish some of that next generation tech had come to fruition already. We need ultra fast many TB reliable, safe storage, yesterday!

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Re: Preproduction EOS 7D Mark II Cameras in Brazil for World Cup
« Reply #116 on: June 17, 2014, 04:06:14 PM »
Who needs a 24 Mp sensor in an APS-C action camera? 18 Mp is just fine. I would rather have fewer MP and fast throughput than >=24 Mp and leisurely throughput. If I want to watch my files s-l-o-w-l-y write, I can shoot with the Sigma DP#M camera.
It is. I keep looking for someone to convince me that 7D Mark ii need more megapicles than 1Dx. ::)

My primary use for this camera is reach when focal length limited, and for that, the more pixels the better.

Actually, I'd rather have more pixels in a crop body than in a full-frame.  I'm usually able to properly frame when using full frame, I use the crop body when I can't.  When I can properly frame the 13MP of my 5D is fine.  When I can't, sometimes I'm cropping like crazy and the more pixels the better.  And that is nearly always with the crop bodies.

I want the reverse, for the same reason.  If I could get a full-frame body with the same pixel density as a crop body, I wouldn't need to carry around a crop body.  :)

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Re: Preproduction EOS 7D Mark II Cameras in Brazil for World Cup
« Reply #117 on: June 17, 2014, 05:22:32 PM »
If I could get a full-frame body with the same pixel density as a crop body, I wouldn't need to carry around a crop body.  :)

... at least not when the ff camera has a software crop mode so you don't end up with huge raw files with junk all around the subject if you're focal length limited.

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Re: Preproduction EOS 7D Mark II Cameras in Brazil for World Cup
« Reply #117 on: June 17, 2014, 05:22:32 PM »

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Re: Preproduction EOS 7D Mark II Cameras in Brazil for World Cup
« Reply #118 on: June 17, 2014, 07:56:48 PM »
The crazy thing is that storage space doesn't seem to be advancing as quickly as it use to anymore. It was quite a number of years ago that we hit 2Tb....then a few years ago that we hit 3Tb, and now only recently have 4Tb drives have begun to become "affordable" (the ones with TERRIBLE access times are still around $150, and the ones with faster access times are still in the $220-$300 range). There are less than a handful of 6Tb drives on the market, and only LaCie seems to be selling 5Tb hard drives...both of which are at lest $300 a pop if not considerably more expensive.

While larger hard drives, all built with the same semi-reliable technology that has been plaguing computer users for decades, trickle slowly onto the market, our data use needs are RAPIDLY growing. As video, especially 4k video, becomes more accessible, I think 48Gb worth of video files is only the beginning! :P And as still image sizes skyrocket to 40, 50, 70 megapixels and beyond... Yeesh...I shudder to think about the costs of storing it all. Cloud services aren't even remotely "there" yet when it comes to space/dollar, and then you have to deal with transferring tens or hundreds of gigs across the wire.

Yeah I really wish some of that next generation tech had come to fruition already. We need ultra fast many TB reliable, safe storage, yesterday!

Aye! I really wish multi-TB sized 10 million hour MTBF SSDs would finally hit the streets. I picked up a 500Gb SSD recently for $200, which was a STEAL...but it was still $200...and for only 500Gb. :\

Really can't wait until I have three or four terrabytes of SSD drive space zipping along at 600Mbit per second or more. :D
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Lee Jay

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Re: Preproduction EOS 7D Mark II Cameras in Brazil for World Cup
« Reply #119 on: June 17, 2014, 10:06:15 PM »
Who needs a 24 Mp sensor in an APS-C action camera? 18 Mp is just fine. I would rather have fewer MP and fast throughput than >=24 Mp and leisurely throughput. If I want to watch my files s-l-o-w-l-y write, I can shoot with the Sigma DP#M camera.
It is. I keep looking for someone to convince me that 7D Mark ii need more megapicles than 1Dx. ::)

My primary use for this camera is reach when focal length limited, and for that, the more pixels the better.

Actually, I'd rather have more pixels in a crop body than in a full-frame.  I'm usually able to properly frame when using full frame, I use the crop body when I can't.  When I can properly frame the 13MP of my 5D is fine.  When I can't, sometimes I'm cropping like crazy and the more pixels the better.  And that is nearly always with the crop bodies.

I want the reverse, for the same reason.  If I could get a full-frame body with the same pixel density as a crop body, I wouldn't need to carry around a crop body.  :)

That would be true as well, except for the cost of making the bigger mirror and shutter (and data pipeline) just as fast.

But if I want 32MP in a crop body, that's 82MP in full-frame.  In-camera crop would help, if I can select it quickly and easy, and ideally while shooting.

I wish Canon would adopt DNG so we could have those scene-referenced lossy-compressed pseudo-raw files.

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Re: Preproduction EOS 7D Mark II Cameras in Brazil for World Cup
« Reply #119 on: June 17, 2014, 10:06:15 PM »